Covid 19 Part XX-26,644 in ROI (1,772 deaths) 6,064 in NI (556 deaths) (08/08)Read OP

podgeandrodge

Deleted User wrote: »

Pubs aren’t either, if they do the 2 metres instead. I’ve had a couple of much longer stays in my local when there has been plenty of space

That the 105 minutes applies to all pubs is a very common misconception

Agreed. I think some pubs didn't even know!

Jinglejangle69

Hope the yanks are enjoying their stayaction.

Joke of a country.

Strumms

We need to pay attention to the experts here. Forget about Azerbaijan, Norway, Mexico, Sweden...

It seems that when some decisions are made which don’t sit well with people here, because it impacts social, financial and or business pressures, perspectives or interests... we get a link saying (for example) the likes of “LOOK, BURUNDI, 11.18 million people, no lockdown and ONLY xxx deaths, ONLY xxx infected”... completely ignoring the social habits, completely ignoring their psychological makeup, completely ignoring population density... focus, on HERE, US, what WE need to do do get us to a good place with minimal casualties... fûck quite frankly everyone else.

Renjit

Fresh air..sunlight..exercise..jog on the beach..just like nature intended. I will not be scared of the air I breathe!

bodhrandude

Man Vs ManUre wrote: »

We are figuring it out as we go along. Or not..... we don’t have the large scale fear now that we had in March/April, but the authorities are telling us the situation is even worse and we have to do this and that for even longer. The truth is that until a vaccine comes along we will be dealing with this, it’s not going away. It’s a very, very bad form of flu, and there is a lot of unknowns with it. It is very scary, but we cannot eliminate it unless we decide to close our borders for a few months. And then it will come back anyway when we reopen. In hindsight I think we made a bit of a balls of it. We should have been more hardline with the airports, like Conor McGregor was saying. And our testing was, and still is, a joke. I think the scientists, medical staff and politicians have worked their arses off but ultimately some things are not possible, so we are where we are. We are in the shi+s till America, GB or (Russia!!) create the virus and make it available to us.

I think you meant to say vaccine there didn't you

Polar101

fritzelly wrote: »

So why didn't he shut them down before LOkdown affecting hundreds of thousands who had done nothing wrong

I'm sure there is something the HSA can enforce

That's something they might have to work on.. Dr Glynn says they only became aware of the LOK situation on Thursday night, which seems to suggest they acted quickly. But in the same article he says "We have been monitoring the situation very closely in these counties for the past 10 days".

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0808/1158018-new-restrictions-in-place-in-kildare-laois-and-offaly/

Day 1: looks ok
Day 2: looks ok
Day 3: looks ok
Day 4: looks ok
Day 5: looks ok
Day 6: looks ok
Day 7: looks ok
Day 8: looks ok
Day 9: looks ok
Day 10: ****

I'm hoping for better monitoring next time.

Atlantic Dawn

Polar101 wrote: »

That's something they might have to work on.. Dr Glynn says they only became aware of the LOK situation on Thursday night, which seems to suggest they acted quickly. But in the same article he says "We have been monitoring the situation very closely in these counties for the past 10 days".

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0808/1158018-new-restrictions-in-place-in-kildare-laois-and-offaly/

They shot themselves in both feet with their own guns letting the meat factories stay open for a week from when the initial positive cases were detected. Spending many millions per day preventing the spread of the virus to then let meat factories stay open is completely foolish.

YFlyer

Renjit wrote: »

Fresh air..sunlight..exercise..jog on the beach..just like nature intended. I will not be scared of the air I breathe!

These approaches will prevent infection no matter who you are?

YFlyer

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

They shot themselves in both feet with their own guns letting the meat factories stay open for a week from when the initial positive cases were detected. Spending many millions per day preventing the spread of the virus to then let meat factories stay open is completely foolish.

Be interesting to see the point contact if infections are from the factory and not from the employees activities outside work.

Atlantic Dawn

YFlyer wrote: »

Be interesting to see the point contact if infections are from the factory and not from the employees activities outside work.

Could be either but at the end of the day if the premises facilitates the spread of the virus it should be shut down permanently and that type of work environment should be banned across the country.

Wolf359f

Polar101 wrote: »

That's something they might have to work on.. Dr Glynn says they only became aware of the LOK situation on Thursday night, which seems to suggest they acted quickly. But in the same article he says "We have been monitoring the situation very closely in these counties for the past 10 days".

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0808/1158018-new-restrictions-in-place-in-kildare-laois-and-offaly/

Day 1: looks ok
Day 2: looks ok
Day 3: looks ok
Day 4: looks ok
Day 5: looks ok
Day 6: looks ok
Day 7: looks ok
Day 8: looks ok
Day 9: looks ok
Day 10: ****

I'm hoping for better monitoring next time.

Just curious, what day would you have acted on, if you were in charge?
considering day 1-9 would appear to be the same for 99.9% of workplaces in this country.

Oranage2

Wolf359f wrote: »

Just curious, what day would you have acted on, if you were in charge?
considering day 1-9 would appear to be the same for 99.9% of workplaces in this country.

I would have acted back in March and closed the airports

Wolf359f

Oranage2 wrote: »

I would have acted back in March and closed the airports

And when all the Irish on holidays/working worldwide have to come back via Belfast and you can't close the border.... what do you do?

Personally, if we're going the 20/20 hindsight route, I'd have acted before that and traveled to china and killed the bat.

Polar101

Wolf359f wrote: »

Just curious, what day would you have acted on, if you were in charge?
considering day 1-9 would appear to be the same for 99.9% of workplaces in this country.

Hopefully on day 10, since I don't have the power of hindsight. I can also think of several reasons for why I shouldn't be in charge.

Like I said, I'm hoping they can learn something and do better next time.

ceadaoin.

Oranage2 wrote: »

I would have acted back in March and closed the airports

So you'd be almost 6 months into the country being closed to visitors and returning citizens and not be able to reopen because cases would rise as soon as people come in. Doesn't sound like much of a plan.

fritzelly

I see RTE have removed the video from YT where they were broadcasting to the world lol

Wolf359f

Polar101 wrote: »

Hopefully on day 10, since I don't have the power of hindsight. I can also think of several reasons for why I shouldn't be in charge.

Like I said, I'm hoping they can learn something and do better next time.

There's just so many people on here with 20/20 hindsight is all.
This isn't the first rodeo with meat plan clusters though. The previous one's didn't really register as much as these have, as we had so many cases during out peak it wasn't noticed by the public and it's our first regional lockdown. So I would expect a very thorough look at why it happened.

It could be a serious of benign reasons that just manifested so fast, nobody could react quick enough and the fact it's 4 substantial outbreaks in the same time frame in the same providence that really made an impact.

Beanybabog

coastwatch wrote: »

I think that's why Minister of Health Stephen Donnelly said his "opinion" is that the affected meat plants should close, becaue they dont have the legal power to force closure.

I think this is ridiculous of Donnelly. Meat plants should not close because they’re the source of a cluster that has forced a lockdown and other business to be closed. They should be closed if they’re a risk. If there’s no risk they should open. No business should be forced to close out or guilt or solidarity. More money and jobs lost just to look humble. If they did something wrong and there are legal sanctions available that’s a totally different matter. This is like the advice on travel- no law that can be scrutinised but rely on social pressure and guilt to stop people travelling. They are the government, they need to govern.

Oranage2

Wolf359f wrote: »

And when all the Irish on holidays/working worldwide have to come back via Belfast and you can't close the border.... what do you do?

Personally, if we're going the 20/20 hindsight route, I'd have acted before that and traveled to china and killed the bat.

There's many solutions, you probably can't think of any but a random guy like me has many ideas, so I'm sure our top elected officials could come up with something too.

We could have a mandatory quarantine for arrivals at the ports, reduce the number of planes and coaches then can bring the arrivals to the facility in citywest. Free for Irish, 30 euro a night for the rest.

As for people up north, free movement between the two nations, except for people who arrive into NI and wish to travel to Ireland,then they must either have been in NI a month, if not they must quarantine or face a fine of 5000e and possibly jail. This would be more difficult to police, perhaps ask NI to stamp new arrivals passports or whatnot.

Obviously not perfect but enough to deterrent the majority of people.

As it is, the government is doing a terrible job, they've had 5 phases, and 3 phases of stage three, this half assed lockdown has done nothing but kept number low at the expense of a 6 month semi lockdown. We should have done a two-three month hard lockdown. We could still do a hard lockdown but instead we're going to keep dithering this partial lockdown till Christmas until we then have to do the full lockdown.

Funsterdelux

fritzelly wrote: »

I see RTE have removed the video from YT where they were broadcasting to the world lol

Ha, I clicked on it lastnight and all 54 of us were watching without a tv licence :eek:

wadacrack

Polar101 wrote: »

That's something they might have to work on.. Dr Glynn says they only became aware of the LOK situation on Thursday night, which seems to suggest they acted quickly. But in the same article he says "We have been monitoring the situation very closely in these counties for the past 10 days".

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0808/1158018-new-restrictions-in-place-in-kildare-laois-and-offaly/

Day 1: looks ok
Day 2: looks ok
Day 3: looks ok
Day 4: looks ok
Day 5: looks ok
Day 6: looks ok
Day 7: looks ok
Day 8: looks ok
Day 9: looks ok
Day 10: ****

I'm hoping for better monitoring next time.

I think its the fact that over half of the 80 cases were asymptomatic in one factory that lead to the decision. At the moment it seems pretty unfair on Laois as most of their cases have originated in the factories in Kildare. Their was testing on a Montague Hotel on Friday, so that may tell more.

Wanderer78

Funsterdelux wrote:

Ha, I clicked on it lastnight and all 54 of us were watching without a tv licence

54 rebels, go for it folks!

coastwatch

Beanybabog wrote: »

I think this is ridiculous of Donnelly. Meat plants should not close because they’re the source of a cluster that has forced a lockdown and other business to be closed. They should be closed if they’re a risk. If there’s no risk they should open. No business should be forced to close out or guilt or solidarity. More money and jobs lost just to look humble. If they did something wrong and there are legal sanctions available that’s a totally different matter. This is like the advice on travel- no law that can be scrutinised but rely on social pressure and guilt to stop people travelling. They are the government, they need to govern.

The point that was made earlier is that it appears the HSA does not have the authority to force closures even if there is a potential risk to staff, because the workplace risk in this case is from a disease, which is not within the HSA area of responsibility. So the only option open to the minister is to request closures, if there's a risk of continuing outbreak at the plants.

GooglePlus

Can we bring the South Koreans on board?

Time is of the essence here and I don't have a whole lot of faith in our systems or the people behind them.

owlbethere

coastwatch wrote: »

The point that was made earlier is that it appears the HSA does not have the authority to force closures even if there is a potential risk to staff, because the workplace risk in this case is from a disease, which is not within the HSA area of responsibility. So the only option open to the minister is to request closures, if there's a risk of continuing outbreak at the plants.

The health and safety authority has a responsibility towards public health. It shouldn't matter if that threat to public health is from rat or insect infestations on a premises serving food to the public or if its disease spreading around staff with huge potential leaking outwards and beyond the premises.

coastwatch

owlbethere wrote: »

The health and safety authority has a responsibility towards public health. It shouldn't matter if that threat to public health is from rat or insect infestations on a premises serving food to the public or if its disease spreading around staff with huge potential leaking outwards and beyond the premises.

The HSA has responsibility for health and safety in workplaces, not responsible for public health matters.

owlbethere

coastwatch wrote: »

The HSA has responsibility for health and safety in workplaces.

So they are responsible for the health and safety of workplaces. It shouldn't matter if the threat to public health is a premises that's lacking wet floor signs or poor enforcement of fire regulations or if its from disease spreading around staff. It's all public health and safety.

owlbethere

I don't understand how the government can see the pubs as a threat to the spread of the virus and issue closure orders and here we have meat plants that has shown to be a risk and danger zone for the spread of virus and they can't issue closure orders on them. What am I missing here? How can the government zone in on one area of work and keep them closed and ignore another threat and risk?

I know some some would argue - food is essential, drinking is not

To some degree yes, I agree but it's a fcuk load of nonsense. Surely we can manage for some weeks without some meats?

coastwatch

owlbethere wrote: »

So they are responsible for the health and safety of workplaces. It shouldn't matter if the threat to public health is a premises that's lacking wet floor signs or poor enforcement of fire regulations or if its from disease spreading around staff. It's all public health and safety.

Risk from disease is not within their remit.
From the HSA website,

3. Do I need to notify the Health and Safety Authority if an employee contracts COVID 19?
No. There is no requirement for an Employer to notify the Authority if an employee contracts COVID-19. Diseases are not reportable under the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work (Reporting of Accidents and Dangerous Occurrences) Regulations 2016 (S.I. No. 370 of 2016).

[URL="
_employers_and_employees.html#3"]https://www.hsa.ie/eng/topics/covid-19/covid-19_advice_for_employers_and_employees/covid_19_–_advice_for
_employers_and_employees.html#3[/URL]

owlbethere

owlbethere wrote: »

I don't understand how the government can see the pubs as a threat to the spread of the virus and issue closure orders and here we have meat plants that has shown to be a risk and danger zone for the spread of virus and they can't issue closure orders on them. What am I missing here? How can the government zone in on one area of work and keep them closed and ignore another threat and risk?

I know some some would argue - food is essential, drinking is not

To some degree yes, I agree but it's a fcuk load of nonsense. Surely we can manage for some weeks without some meats?

Continuity of food supply is essential. The psychology of hoarding behaviour would see some people who may see shortages in some of those regular weekly shop, replace these items with alternatives and likely over buy, creating shortages elsewhere. This would quickly become a vicious circle, with hoarding behaviour becoming widespread as even the level headed see a risk that there may be shortages. In this scenario low income individuals and households without the disposable income to stock up in advance would face outright food shortages. That’s why food production is not treated the same as any other business