Why is there ever a debate about who was the best Irish Sports person ever? *READ OP*

py2006

Hard not to look passed this young lady:

ExMachina1000

sxt wrote: »

Roy Keane

There is no other Irish person close. Who ever is second, is a distant second

He is the most influential sports person in Irish sporting History, and in British football history

Any objections?

O Driscoll or O Connell would be right up there. Ireland will never see a goal scorer like Robbie Keane again either but Roy Keane is the top of the charts

tritriagain

Roy Keane was immense. A pure winner. I remember before Clive Woodward brought his English team to win the world cup he was finding it difficult to decide on his scrum half. He was asked in an interview if he could have any scrum half in the world who would he pick. He answered Roy Keane. A true testament to his determination and ferocity.

DrGreenThumb82

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Also, was English.

Jack Charlton was Irish. A proud honourary Irishman. It made his Englishness null and void.

YFlyer

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

O Driscoll or O Connell would be right up there. Ireland will never see a goal scorer like Robbie Keane again either but Roy Keane is the top of the charts

Troy Parrot will be the next goal machine.

lawrencesummers

tritriagain wrote: »

Hardly a stupid argument .the soccer world cup has been won by 5 different teams the last 5 times. You mightn't agree with me but that doesn't make it stupid.

When you settle on the positioning of the goalposts let me know.

lawrencesummers

py2006 wrote: »

Hard not to look passed this young lady:

Thats the purpose of a black background alright.

US2

Ducksy Walsh is no question about it

tritriagain

lawrencesummers wrote: »

When you settle on the positioning of the goalposts let me know.

It must be great to have such superior intelligence.thanks for setting me straight.

Feisar

py2006 wrote: »

Hard not to look passed this young lady:

The problem here is the same as the reason Rugby get's put down, lack of participation. Women's boxing is a niche sport.

To actually calculate the best one would need to weigh achievement vs elite participation somehow and also factor in team player vs individual.

It's all moot though. I doubt Seam Kelly wonders "am I the greatest Irish sports person ever".

Winners think about winning, losers think about winners.

Edgware

py2006 wrote: »

Hard not to look passed this young lady:

It is. What was the level of competition like?

Edgware

DrGreenThumb82 wrote: »

Jack Charlton was Irish. A proud honourary Irishman. It made his Englishness null and void.

Codswallop. He did a good job, gave us great days, got paid and when the results went bad the "greatest supporters in the world" turned on him.
At least it gave us a chance to abuse another of our heroes Stan

Water John

There has been negative references here by a few on Sonia taking a year out and having a child. It is generally accepted that women actually run better after having a child.

Feisar

Water John wrote: »

There has been negative references here by a few on Sonia taking a year out and having a child. It is generally accepted that women actually run better after having a child.

I read/heard somewhere that the three Chinese that beat her were impregnated at some stage during the training and babies aborted. So they got the benefits with non of the drawbacks. I cannot provide a source it's donkeys since I read/heard it.

castletownman

I would discredit O'Driscoll and O'Connell entirely because as captains, and the apparent reverance that holds in rugby, they have a black mark over them for Ireland's constant under-performance at the World Cup.

If they were as great leaders as they are claimed to be, they would have summoned a big knock-out win out of somewhere. In fact, Roy Keane's performances in the qualifiers for the 2002 World Cup trumps anything BOD and POC did for Ireland in terms of performing on the grand stage.

Greats in their sport, but not among Ireland's best ever. In my opinion, of course.

DrGreenThumb82

Edgware wrote: »

Codswallop. He did a good job, gave us great days, got paid and when the results went bad the "greatest supporters in the world" turned on him.
At least it gave us a chance to abuse another of our heroes Stan

Who is Stan? Collymore? Awful character. Did you like him in Basic Instinct 2?

Swamp_Cat

The dedicated junior GAA player who gives all for as long as possible before moving to coaching or refereeing & on to other necessary duties around the pitch. These are Ireland's greatest sportsmen. The GAA being the worlds greatest sporting organization. IMHO

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Water John wrote: »

There has been negative references here by a few on Sonia taking a year out and having a child. It is generally accepted that women actually run better after having a child.

lol...

If you believe that, you'll believe quite literally anything I'd imagine! :pac:

She couldn't train for at least 9 months, while her rivals were training their ar$es off for the olympics... this was at a crucial time in her career, when she had a serious chance at winning gold in those games.

This shows a lack of commitment to her sport at what should have been the peak of her career. There is no way anyone is convincing me, that you get yourself pregnant the year before the olympics as a strategy for running faster in those games! Nonsense!

Edgware

DrGreenThumb82 wrote: »

Who is Stan? Collymore? Awful character. Did you like him in Basic Instinct 2?

Staunton. Got the job after Kerr. Called Stan by Jack in mistake for some North East character. A bit like him calling Liam Brady Ian after the Moors Murderer

partyguinness

Truthvader wrote: »

Why? because Lord Keane had an entitlement to special private attention? He was meant to be in a team - though he never understood that.

Me me me all the way. Mick McCarthy has more class and decency in his little finger than Keane. Plus he gave 100% as a player every time. When the time came Roy gave 0%. Walked his dog.

Because it is McCarthy's job to manage. Look up the definition.

Let's pretend you are in the workplace and your boss has a problem with you. Does your boss:-

a. Call you into your office and have speak to you in private, or
b. Call a meeting of the entire workforce and berate you in front of your colleagues?

I am not saying Keane was right re the interview but McCarthy had a choice to make and he made a bad choice.

He called that meeting because:

a. He didnt have the balls to do it in private.

Oh and remember Keane actually offered to go to McCarthy's room and bury the hachet in private (verified by others) and McCarthy wouldnt have it. His mind was made up Keane was out and Keane went fine "Fcuk you too". Mccarthy didnt have the balls to look Keane in the eye.

b. He wanted to make an example of Keane in front of everyone

McCarthy wanted to provoke a reaction or was incredibly stupid if he didnt see it coming. I mean really, when McCarthy called that meeting in froint of the entire squad and staff what did he expect?

Truthvader

partyguinness wrote: »

Because it is McCarthy's job to manage. Look up the definition.

Let's pretend you are in the workplace and your boss has a problem with you. Does your boss:-

a. Call you into your office and have speak to you in private, or
b. Call a meeting of the entire workforce and berate you in front of your colleagues?

I am not saying Keane was right re the interview but McCarthy had a choice to make and he made a bad choice.

He called that meeting because:

a. He didnt have the balls to do it in private.

Oh and remember Keane actually offered to go to McCarthy's room and bury the hachet in private (verified by others) and McCarthy wouldnt have it. His mind was made up Keane was out and Keane went fine "Fcuk you too". Mccarthy didnt have the balls to look Keane in the eye.

b. He wanted to make an example of Keane in front of everyone

McCarthy wanted to provoke a reaction or was incredibly stupid if he didnt see it coming. I mean really, when McCarthy called that meeting in froint of the entire squad and staff what did he expect?

Loyalty to the team instead of a bitch hissy fit

McGinniesta

sxt wrote: »

Roy Keane

There is no other Irish person close. Who ever is second, is a distant second

He is the most influential sports person in Irish sporting History, and in British football history

Any objections?

Yes. Other people have opinions that don't match yours.

doggerland

I think sports people from more than 20 years ago, don't count.

People harp on about Christy Ring, let's be honest with todays training and effort, he'd never come close to matching any decent player from a top team. Not his fault.

partyguinness

Truthvader wrote: »

Loyalty to the team instead of a bitch hissy fit

You are evading my question and the elephant in the room: McCarthy should have had it out with Keane in private. That team meeting was unnecessary. McCarthy could have just ignored it for the sake of peace and quiet and focus on the job in hand. But no. He called a full on team meeting and waved the newspaper in the air.

Regardless of anyone's view of Keane that was a bad management.

They had a slagging match and got it off their chest. Big deal. It was a room of fully grown men- professional footballers who see all sorts of fights between team mates in the dressing room and training pitch.

So McCarthy decided "I am going to let my captain and best player go home because he hurt my feelings."

As I said, Keane went to meet McCarthy in his room and he was stopped in the corridoor and told McCarthy had made up his mind.

That does not come under my defintion of "walking out on the team".

As I said, McCarthy didn't have the balls to meet Keane head on in private and went for the safety in numbers herd mentality by surrounding himself with the rest of the squad- he felt safer.

Like the school bully who is all mouth in front of an audience but a very quiet boy in private.

crossman47

partyguinness wrote: »

You are evading my question and the elephant in the room: McCarthy should have had it out with Keane in private. That team meeting was unnecessary. McCarthy could have just ignored it for the sake of peace and quiet and focus on the job in hand. But no. He called a full on team meeting and waved the newspaper in the air.

Regardless of anyone's view of Keane that was a bad management.

They had a slagging match and got it off their chest. Big deal. It was a room of fully grown men- professional footballers who see all sorts of fights between team mates in the dressing room and training pitch.

So McCarthy decided "I am going to let my captain and best player go home because he hurt my feelings."

As I said, Keane went to meet McCarthy in his room and he was stopped in the corridoor and told McCarthy had made up his mind.

That is not come under my defintion of "walking out on the team".

As I said, McCarthy didn't have the balls to meet Keane head on in private and went for the safety in numbers herd mentality by surrounding himself with the rest of the squad- he felt safer.

Like the school bully who is all mouth in front of an audience but a very quiet boy in private.

I was basically on McCarthys side because Keane was clearly so difficult to deal with. However a good manager must overcome that. Knowing Keane, he should have met him privately in advance and arranged for him to skip Saipan.

tritriagain

I remember at the time there was a newspaper article about ordinary peoples opinions about what happened in Saipan. The one that made the most sense to me was from a night club owner who said that if his best bar man threw a hissy fit on new years Eve , his busiest night of the year, he would leave it go until the night was over.. and give him a bollocking the next day. McCarthy should have waited til after wc and then said whatever was on his mind. A very poor management decision , which was pre-planned, irrespective of Keane's actions.

partyguinness

crossman47 wrote: »

I was basically on McCarthys side because Keane was clearly so difficult to deal with. However a good manager must overcome that. Knowing Keane, he should have met him privately in advance and arranged for him to skip Saipan.

I like McCarthy but it really was not a good decision to call that meeting. As you said Keane and himself had a tense relationship already. What was McCarthy hoping to achieve I have no idea.

McCarthy
"Jaysus have you seen this? Keane fcking mouthing of. I am pissed off."
Assistant:
"Best ignore it boss. You know what he is like. Let's just get on with the job. Slag him off in your book later."
McCarthy:
"I know what would be great idea. I realise we are at the WC and **** is getting serious so I am going to call a squad meeting. I am going to put our hero on the spot in front of everyone and ask him to explain himself."
Assistant:
"Are you sure boss? I don't think he will react well. This is not some newbie. Whether you like it or not Keane is our captain, talisman and one of the most respected players in world football. He is prickly and combustible even at the best of times never mind the fact he hates your guts. For peace and quiet just let it lie or have a word with him in private."
McCarthy:
"Meet him in private? Eff that...I only brought a certain amount of underpants. No. I need to stamp my authority and put the fecker in his place. Once I have sufficiently embarrassed him in front of the entire squad he will be eating out of my hand. Sure what's the worst that could happen."
Assistant:
"Ok. You're the boss."

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

McCarthy's decision to challenge Keane in front of the entire squad (even the young lads), begs the question about why he even picked Keane as his captain in the first place. They never had a strong relationship that you need to have with your captain - even Ferguson had a pretty solid working relationship with Keane right up until the end when they fell out.

He clearly didn't like Keane going back to when they played together under Charlton. So why pick him as your captain? He must have felt under pressure to give it to him, because he was the star Man Utd player... but this again shows poor leadership from McCarthy, because he should have had the balls to pick someone who he had a better working relationship with.

partyguinness

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

McCarthy's decision to challenge Keane in front of the entire squad (even the young lads), begs the question about why he even picked Keane as his captain in the first place. They never had a strong relationship that you need to have with your captain - even Ferguson had a pretty solid working relationship with Keane right up until the end when they fell out.

He clearly didn't like Keane going back to when they played together under Charlton. So why pick him as your captain? He must have felt under pressure to give it to him, because he was the star Man Utd player... but this again shows poor leadership from McCarthy, because he should have had the balls to pick someone who he had a better working relationship with.

Keane's leadership and captain qualities lay out on the pitch where ultimately it mattered. I think any other player would have been embarrassed to captain the team.

Personally I wouldn't necessarily criticse McCarthy for that. TBH it would have been laughable not to give Keane the captaincy. Once he gave it him from the outset after Townsend retired he couldnt just take it off him after a few years because their relationship was cold.

Keane was captaining the team of players rather than McCarthy himself. In fact not having Keane as captain would have been seen as a blatant insult by McCarthy. Keane's role was to do the business on the pitch and the players were fully committed to Keane.

eagle eye

doggerland wrote:

I think sports people from more than 20 years ago, don't count.
People harp on about Christy Ring, let's be honest with todays training and effort, he'd never come close to matching any decent player from a top team. Not his fault.

A person from many years ago can still be the greatest sportsperson. They may have been more successful in their era.

Just because training methods change, it doesn't mean that a person from another era can't be considered. Comparing people from different eras as regards fitness is ridiculous. Comparing their achievements is fair.

Edgware

doggerland wrote: »

I think sports people from more than 20 years ago, don't count.

People harp on about Christy Ring, let's be honest with todays training and effort, he'd never come close to matching any decent player from a top team. Not his fault.

Christy Ring, Jimmy Doyle, Eddie Keher would wipe the eye of any of the robots of the present time. Whingers that cant do anything without getting the services of their psychologist, dietician or motivator.

eagle eye

partyguinness wrote:

Like the school bully who is all mouth in front of an audience but a very quiet boy in private.

Well I've met both of them many times and I can tell you that Mick McCarthy is a gentleman and has been his whole career. Roy Keane was brash and ill-tempered during his football career.
I'm not saying that Keane was wrong about the set up in Saipan just to be clear but as regards personalities I know which one was calm and balanced and which one was not.

partyguinness

Edgware wrote: »

Christy Ring, Jimmy Doyle, Eddie Keher would wipe the eye of any of the robots of the present time. Whingers that cant do anything without getting the services of their psychologist, dietician or motivator.

Yeah but it is all relative. Have you watched GAA footage from the 60s and 70s and even into the late 80s?


It is the modern day equivalent of a bad Junior C game.

partyguinness

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I've met both of them many times and I can tell you that Mick McCarthy is a gentleman and has been his whole career. Roy Keane was brash and ill-tempered during his football career.
I'm not saying that Keane was wrong about the set up in Saipan just to be clear but as regards personalities I know which one was calm and balanced and which one was not.

I agree. Comparing McCarthy to a school bully is a tad harsh but it was more to illustrate that McCarthy was only prepared to 'confront' Keane in front of an audience rather than in private.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

partyguinness wrote: »

Keane's leadership and captain qualities lay out on the pitch where ultimately it mattered. I think any other player would have been embarrassed to captain the team.

Personally I wouldn't necessarily criticse McCarthy for that. TBH it would have been laughable not to give Keane the captaincy. Once he gave it him from the outset after Townsend retired he couldnt just take it off him after a few years because their relationship was cold.

Keane was captaining the team of players rather than McCarthy himself. In fact not having Keane as captain would have been seen as a blatant insult by McCarthy. Keane's role was to do the business on the pitch and the players were fully committed to Keane.

But their relationship didn't become cold over the years... it was always cold from the get-go. They never really liked each other.

I agree that Keane was the stand out candidate for the captaincy. But there were other good leaders there too, and McCarthy had a better relationship with some of those guys.

I think McCarthy gave it to him, because he had to... not because he genuinely wanted him as his captain.

It's a debatable one I suppose.

The team spirit in those Ireland squads were so good going back from the Charlton days, that even Keane's moodiness didn't necessarily cause much of a problem most of the time... it's actually very strange that everything exploded at that moment. Keane had been complaining about poor standards for years.

That's why you need a strong bond with your captain imo, because the gap between the two of them meant that McCarthy perhaps misjudged exactly what was going on in Keane's mind... He was ready to explode, and McCarthy foolishly pulled the pin out of that grenade at the worst possible moment!

italodisco

italodisco wrote: »

I hate to say it, as I can't stand him, but conor mcgregor would certainly be up there on the list

Fuuuuck no, he wouldn't.

Tomaldo

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

McCarthy's decision to challenge Keane in front of the entire squad (even the young lads), begs the question about why he even picked Keane as his captain in the first place. They never had a strong relationship that you need to have with your captain - even Ferguson had a pretty solid working relationship with Keane right up until the end when they fell out.

He clearly didn't like Keane going back to when they played together under Charlton. So why pick him as your captain? He must have felt under pressure to give it to him, because he was the star Man Utd player... but this again shows poor leadership from McCarthy, because he should have had the balls to pick someone who he had a better working relationship with.

Did Keane not say he was going home before that infamous 'Paul Daniels' meeting and Sir Alex and Michael Kennedy or both advised him to stay, can anyone clarify why he didn't play in the play-off (2nd leg) with Iran

tritriagain

tritriagain wrote: »

I remember at the time there was a newspaper article about ordinary peoples opinions about what happened in Saipan. The one that made the most sense to me was from a night club owner who said that if his best bar man threw a hissy fit on new years Eve , his busiest night of the year, he would leave it go until the night was over.. and give him a bollocking the next day. McCarthy should have waited til after wc and then said whatever was on his mind. A very poor management decision , which was pre-planned, irrespective of Keane's actions.

Except the knock on effect to the rest of the staff. One sees it fly, gets the hump and it rolls on and on.

The WC was also not one night and it wasn't a barman, it was your captain.

They had it out as a team because it effects the team. It was a chance for all opinions but sadly for Roy, those opinions didn't back him. They said it themselves afterwards.

The team played better afterwards because there was no fracture. Keane left the team because the team didn't agree with his personal opinion.

He left United similarly, Ipswich, Sunderland, even cobh I believe had issues.

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

I like McCarthy but it really was not a good decision to call that meeting. As you said Keane and himself had a tense relationship already. What was McCarthy hoping to achieve I have no idea.

McCarthy
"Jaysus have you seen this? Keane fcking mouthing of. I am pissed off."
Assistant:
"Best ignore it boss. You know what he is like. Let's just get on with the job. Slag him off in your book later."
McCarthy:
"I know what would be great idea. I realise we are at the WC and **** is getting serious so I am going to call a squad meeting. I am going to put our hero on the spot in front of everyone and ask him to explain himself."
Assistant:
"Are you sure boss? I don't think he will react well. This is not some newbie. Whether you like it or not Keane is our captain, talisman and one of the most respected players in world football. He is prickly and combustible even at the best of times never mind the fact he hates your guts. For peace and quiet just let it lie or have a word with him in private."
McCarthy:
"Meet him in private? Eff that...I only brought a certain amount of underpants. No. I need to stamp my authority and put the fecker in his place. Once I have sufficiently embarrassed him in front of the entire squad he will be eating out of my hand. Sure what's the worst that could happen."
Assistant:
"Ok. You're the boss."

Yep, because until that meeting the other senior players hadn't read the paper and there was no tension in the room.

Keane mouthed off, unprofessional and caused tension in the room. Anything other than public would not have worked.

Anyone that works in a team environment knows that there's times when a mouth needs shutting publicly

partyguinness

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

But their relationship didn't become cold over the years... it was always cold from the get-go. They never really liked each other.

I agree that Keane was the stand out candidate for the captaincy. But there were other good leaders there too, and McCarthy had a better relationship with some of those guys.

I think McCarthy gave it to him, because he had to... not because he genuinely wanted him as his captain.

It's a debatable one I suppose.

The team spirit in those Ireland squads were so good going back from the Charlton days, that even Keane's moodiness didn't necessarily cause much of a problem most of the time... it's actually very strange that everything exploded at that moment. Keane had been complaining about poor standards for years.

That's why you need a strong bond with your captain imo, because the gap between the two of them meant that McCarthy perhaps misjudged exactly what was going on in Keane's mind... He was ready to explode, and McCarthy foolishly pulled the pin out of that grenade at the worst possible moment!

In the one sense criticising the set up was fine but at the same time it was too effing late to do anything about it so it was rather pointless at that stage. So Keane should have perhaps kept it for the WC post mortem.

I think Keane's decision to do the interview was his way to let off steam rather than letting it build up inside. If he bottled it up it he may very have exploded on the pitch and got sent off later on. It was almost theraputic.

After the interview, the ball was in McCarthy's court and it was his decision to call the ill fated meeting.

partyguinness

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Yep, because until that meeting the other senior players hadn't read the paper and there was no tension in the room.

Keane mouthed off, unprofessional and caused tension in the room. Anything other than public would not have worked.

Anyone that works in a team environment knows that there's times when a mouth needs shutting publicly

Several days out from the first WC game ain't the time to do it. This was not a standard team or club environment. These were players couped up for weeks at a time training for a WC. All sorts of different personalities that need to be managed.

Was it necessary or productive to publicly shut down Keane's mouth? I think the outcome speaks for itself.

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

Several days out from the first WC game ain't the time to do it. This was not a standard team or club environment. These were players couped up for weeks at a time training for a WC. All sorts of different personalities that need to be managed.

Was it necessary or productive to publicly shut down Keane's mouth? I think the outcome speaks for itself.

I think the outcome absolutely shows it was correct. The trouble maker went home in a sulk, the team bonded and played very well

partyguinness

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Except the knock on effect to the rest of the staff. One sees it fly, gets the hump and it rolls on and on.

The WC was also not one night and it wasn't a barman, it was your captain.

They had it out as a team because it effects the team. It was a chance for all opinions but sadly for Roy, those opinions didn't back him. They said it themselves afterwards.

The team played better afterwards because there was no fracture. Keane left the team because the team didn't agree with his personal opinion.

He left United similarly, Ipswich, Sunderland, even cobh I believe had issues.

The rest of the team sat there with their mouths shut. They knew which side of their bread was buttered. Quinn, Staunton and Kelly were they only ones that rowed in behind McCarthy after the fact as show of solidarity which was fair enough.

As pointed at the time most of the players were just happy to be there or just too young to pipe up. Plus it all happened so quickly that most didnt appreciate what was going on or have time to react.

The team played better without him? Not sure how you can possibly arrive at that conclusion.

In contrast when Keane left United after criticising players did Ferguson call a squad meeting and shine a spotlight on Keane? No. Ferguson had Keane in his office in person and essentially fired him.

Mad_maxx

partyguinness wrote: »

You are evading my question and the elephant in the room: McCarthy should have had it out with Keane in private. That team meeting was unnecessary. McCarthy could have just ignored it for the sake of peace and quiet and focus on the job in hand. But no. He called a full on team meeting and waved the newspaper in the air.

Regardless of anyone's view of Keane that was a bad management.

They had a slagging match and got it off their chest. Big deal. It was a room of fully grown men- professional footballers who see all sorts of fights between team mates in the dressing room and training pitch.

So McCarthy decided "I am going to let my captain and best player go home because he hurt my feelings."

As I said, Keane went to meet McCarthy in his room and he was stopped in the corridoor and told McCarthy had made up his mind.

That does not come under my defintion of "walking out on the team".

As I said, McCarthy didn't have the balls to meet Keane head on in private and went for the safety in numbers herd mentality by surrounding himself with the rest of the squad- he felt safer.

Like the school bully who is all mouth in front of an audience but a very quiet boy in private.

Mc carthy was right to send him home, no player should be bigger than the team, walking on eggshells around Keanes temper for the rest of the tournament would have ruined team spirit

As it turned out, that was a very good WC showing from an average team, obviously far better than the current team but a shadow of the 88 or 90 squad

Mad_maxx

partyguinness wrote: »

Yeah but it is all relative. Have you watched GAA footage from the 60s and 70s and even into the late 80s?


It is the modern day equivalent of a bad Junior C game.

You can only be as good as the era you played in, Pele wasn't as fit as Ronaldo etc

partyguinness

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I think the outcome absolutely shows it was correct. The trouble maker went home in a sulk, the team bonded and played very well

No you are missing the point. It was about management and managing a situation.

If McCarthy called the team meeting with the expectation that it would clear the air and everyone would be honky dory afterwards then he was badly wrong and that was a bad management decision on McCarthy's part as evidenced by Keane ending up going home. If he did not envisage that scenario arising then it was a grave miscalculation.

McCarthy decided to up the ante which resulted in his captain and best player not playing at the WC. That was not a good outcome for management. As I have mentioned earlier Keane actually walked to McCarthy's room to try and sort it out but he was stopped- is that good management?

Now maybe that was McCathy's ultimate goal- escalate a scenario where he can finally get rid of Keane.

Hamsterchops

.anon. wrote: »

He was from Belfast, which is in Ireland, not Britain, as can clearly be seen from aerial photographs.

Northern Irish, British ... and Irish, with a small i

partyguinness

I am actually going to go with Sonia O'Sullivan because it is such an individual sport.

I cannot think of any other Irish sportsperson that dominated their sport quite like she did back in the 90s.

Edgware

partyguinness wrote: »

Yeah but it is all relative. Have you watched GAA footage from the 60s and 70s and even into the late 80s?


It is the modern day equivalent of a bad Junior C game.

Well I suppose the problem in comparing is that we are judging on camera footage. The camera footage available in the 40s 50s 60s is of Charlie Chaplin standard. These players didnt need gym as they were involved in physical work, might cycle 10 miles to and from training, restricted diet e.g no ****ing pasta

partyguinness

Edgware wrote: »

Well I suppose the problem in comparing is that we are judging on camera footage. The camera footage available in the 40s 50s 60s is of Charlie Chaplin standard. These players didnt need gym as they were involved in physical work, might cycle 10 miles to and from training, restricted diet e.g no ****ing pasta

Yeah I am being very unfair and slightly provocative.