Why is there ever a debate about who was the best Irish Sports person ever? *READ OP*

salmocab

Comparing players now and years ago is just unfair, the training and science has moved on so much. Using time travel and bringing say the great Kerry team of the 70s to play the current Kerry team would be no contest the current players have better conditioning and tactics however if they were all brought up at the same time with the same acccess to everything I’d suspect the 70s team would be better players for the most part.

Truthvader

Can we not re-run the "who was right Roy or Mick" argument again (which often just boils down to who is from Cork and who isn't)

A substantial percentage won't back Roy as greatest ever as evidenced here. Endy Story. Bye Roy

Still Ronnie Delaney for me. From a time before money.

Greatest Sportsman - NOT Greatest Businessman or Twitter profile or richest etc

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

The rest of the team sat there with their mouths shut. They knew which side of their bread was buttered. Quinn, Staunton and Kelly were they only ones that rowed in behind McCarthy after the fact as show of solidarity which was fair enough.

As pointed at the time most of the players were just happy to be there or just too young to pipe up. Plus it all happened so quickly that most didnt appreciate what was going on or have time to react.

The team played better without him? Not sure how you can possibly arrive at that conclusion.

In contrast when Keane left United after criticising players did Ferguson call a squad meeting and shine a spotlight on Keane? No. Ferguson had Keane in his office in person and essentially fired him.

You can't be fired from national duty though. It's different

The team played very well, we were hard done by Spain and could have gone far.

The senior players backed the manager, you can't know how the rest that didn't speak felt so don't make claims about how they felt.

Mad_maxx

Truthvader wrote: »

Can we not re-run the "who was right Roy or Mick" argument again (which often just boils down to who is from Cork and who isn't)

A substantial percentage won't back Roy as greatest ever as evidenced here. Endy Story. Bye Roy

Still Ronnie Delaney for me. From a time before money.

Greatest Sportsman - NOT Greatest Businessman or Twitter profile or richest etc

That was a once off for Delaney, he didn't feature before or after

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

I am actually going to go with Sonia O'Sullivan because it is such an individual sport.

I cannot think of any other Irish sportsperson that dominated their sport quite like she did back in the 90s.

That's a very good call actually.

I would throw Ronnie Whelan in. Part of a dominant Liverpool team and could have done far more in the Irish Jersey

Doctors room ghost

partyguinness wrote: »

I am actually going to go with Sonia O'Sullivan because it is such an individual sport.

I cannot think of any other Irish sportsperson that dominated their sport quite like she did back in the 90s.

Until 3 lab brewed Chinese came out of nowhere and beat her.robbing bastads

jmayo

doggerland wrote: »

I think sports people from more than 20 years ago, don't count.

People harp on about Christy Ring, let's be honest with todays training and effort, he'd never come close to matching any decent player from a top team. Not his fault.

Oh what load of unadulterated shyte.

Class and skill can transcend generations and time.
Ring had skill, so had many others.
Ring would not have lasted as long because GAA has become a young mans game in the last couple of decades.

The likes of Jimmy Keaveney, Eoin Liston, Colm Corkery might not last today or even make a county panel, not because they aren't skillful enough, but because they aren't willing to live on some concoction dreamt up by a dietician and they aren't willing to spend half the week doing gym work.

People laud Messi and Ronaldo has if their likes have never been seen before and because of how long they have been at the top.
But Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano, Puskas, Garrincha, Cruyff and Best were phenomenal players and would equally be as good today.
Most of them never got the longevity of Messi or Ronaldo thanks in no small part to how they weren't offered anything like the protection offered the current guys playing.

But if 25 year old version of Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano were around today they would be right at the top.

partyguinness wrote: »

Yeah but it is all relative. Have you watched GAA footage from the 60s and 70s and even into the late 80s?

It is the modern day equivalent of a bad Junior C game.

You mean back when the guys ...
weren't training 6 days a week,
weren't on controlled diets developed by professional dieticians,
weren't guided by professional strength and fitness coaches,
hadn't their every move on a pitch tracked by satellites to be analysed later,
weren't part of county development squads since they were 14,
weren't part of systemic systems developed by multiple coaches watching hours upon hours of videos.

Kerry's Dublin based players in the 70s/80s were trained by a teacher and sports commentator for part of their heyday, not by multiple professional coaches.
How many professionals are involved in a top GAA team these days.
Dublin senior county panel has had upto 23 odd backroom people involved with their games and countless more involved in their preparation.
Other counties have nearly as much.
Most county squads now have huge numbers in comparison to years ago.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

partyguinness wrote: »

I am actually going to go with Sonia O'Sullivan because it is such an individual sport.

I cannot think of any other Irish sportsperson that dominated their sport quite like she did back in the 90s.

She didn't dominate her sport!

She was highly competitive in her sport - but domination is an entirely different thing.

Usain Bolt dominated his sport. 8 olympic gold medals, 11 world championship golds... holds the 100m world record (and has broken it 4 times), 200m world record... countless guinness world records etc. He's still only 33 and retired 3 or 4 years ago - many athletes are still competing at his age!

That's domination!

Sonia O'Sullivan was highly competitive and highly talented, but never quite fulfilled her huge potential at the highest level.

partyguinness

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

She didn't dominate her sport!

She was highly competitive in her sport - but domination is an entirely different thing.

Usain Bolt dominated his sport. 8 olympic gold medals, 11 world championship golds... holds the 100m world record (and has broken it 4 times), 200m world record... countless guinness world records etc. He's still only 33 and retired 3 or 4 years ago - many athletes are still competing at his age!

That's domination!

Sonia O'Sullivan was highly competitive and highly talented, but never quite fulfilled her huge potential at the highest level.

She was the stand out and most consistent female middle distance runner from say 92 to 97/98. Her league meets Euros and Worlds. Her 2000 Olympic silver was slightly unexpected as she had taken time off to have a child. Perhaps she didnt clean up with medals as she should have but she still dominated. Usian Bolt is an extreme example.

Anyway, her record is still head and shoulders any other Irish sportsperson in their field.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

partyguinness wrote: »

She was the stand out and most consistent female middle distance runner from say 92 to 97/98. Her league meets Euros and Worlds. Her 2000 silver was slightly unexpected as she had taken time off to have a child. Perhaps she didnt clean up with medals as she should have but she still dominated. Usian Bolt is an extreme example.

She did not dominate her sport. Not at the elite level.

You cannot call her a dominant female distance runner, when she went to 4 olympic games and only has one solitary silver medal to show for it.

I'm sorry, but with the talent she had she should have achieved far more than that.

As regards having a baby before the 2000 olympics... I'm the person who first highlighted this on the thread, and it was a massive error in judgement on her part. She was one the favourites for gold in those games, but basically blew her chances... so she only really has herself to blame on that one.

She would certainly make any top 20 list comfortably, but she's definitely not the greatest ever. Not for me anyway.

Tom Mann Centuria

partyguinness wrote: »

She was the stand out and most consistent female middle distance runner from say 92 to 97/98. Her league meets Euros and Worlds. Her 2000 Olympic silver was slightly unexpected as she had taken time off to have a child. Perhaps she didnt clean up with medals as she should have but she still dominated. Usian Bolt is an extreme example.

Anyway, her record is still head and shoulders any other Irish sportsperson in their field.

I agree she would get my vote, and was ultra consistent, but she didn't dominate. No one did in her era, at her distances, she was one of quite a few capable of winning the big events, as the records show. But to even be competitive in distance running was a huge feat in itself. Imo.

Doctors room ghost

partyguinness wrote: »

She was the stand out and most consistent female middle distance runner from say 92 to 97/98. Her league meets Euros and Worlds. Her 2000 Olympic silver was slightly unexpected as she had taken time off to have a child. Perhaps she didnt clean up with medals as she should have but she still dominated. Usian Bolt is an extreme example.

Anyway, her record is still head and shoulders any other Irish sportsperson in their field.

Because she was surrounded by a load of cheats and frauds.

ballsdeep69

Big joe Joyce obviously 👊ðŸ½

ShatterAlan

feargale wrote: »

You seem to take a special interest in this shagging business. I'd say there would be a run on popcorn in your house if it ever became an Olympic event.

And the same in your house if cheap smartarse comments qualified.

I don't care how many women a sports person beds.
George Best was a notorious womaniser and I've no problem with that. He was the greatest player to come from the island...probably this hemisphere.
Paul Gasgoine is another violent drunk but there's no denying his ability.

I was talking about how people try to use a person's flaws as a reason to detract from their sporting acumen. A point that was clearly lost on you.

But thanks for the snotty quip.

trashcan

Mad_maxx wrote: »

if best saw himself as irish , thats good enough for me , i dont think he did however

if he is irish

he is out in front as the best ever sports person from this country - island

I actually think he probably did. He is on record as supporting an all Island football team.

partyguinness

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

She did not dominate her sport. Not at the elite level.

You cannot call her a dominant female distance runner, when she went to 4 olympic games and only has one solitary silver medal to show for it.

I'm sorry, but with the talent she had she should have achieved far more than that.

As regards having a baby before the 2000 olympics... I'm the person who first highlighted this on the thread, and it was a massive error in judgement on her part. She was one the favourites for gold in those games, but basically blew her chances... so she only really has herself to blame on that one.

She would certainly make any top 20 list comfortably, but she's definitely not the greatest ever. Not for me anyway.

So what if you brought up her child first? It is of no relevance. She made a conscious decision to have a child. That is hardly a 'massive error of judgment'. It is a shame she didnt clean up in 96.

She was certainly not favourite for the gold in 2000. I remember it well. The hope was she would compete for a medal but perhaps gold was probably stretching it. Expectation was subdued. But she sure as hell nearly did...purely from memory she was beaten on the home straight by Zsabo who later served a ban I recall correctly (not for failing a drug test at that race).


Top 20 of all Irish people? Are you having a laugh..so not best (fine), not top 3 or top 5 or even top 10 but top 20!! So you would put her 11-20 on your list..I would love to see the 10 or even 19 other sports stars you would put before her.

sxt

partyguinness wrote: »

Top 20 of all Irish people? Are you having a laugh..so not best (fine), not top 3 or top 5 or even top 10 but top 20!! So you would put her 11-20 on your list..I would love to see the 10 or even 19 other sports stars you would put before her.

She had the talent to be near the top. Maybe it was the Irish set up? Probably not the best? Do most countries value World and Olympic medals more than European meets. Sonia may have have been winning all those events but other countries may have been more focused on major competitions

If Sonia o sullivan was British,she probably would have excelled. Based on results, would she be anywhere near top 100 world /Olympic athletes from UK of all time ?

Water John

Well Paula Radcliffe was her UK opposite and she was better than her.
As someone said above Sonia was the dominant clean athlete of her time.

partyguinness

sxt wrote: »

She had the talent to be near the top. Maybe it was the Irish set up? Probably not the best? Do most countries value World and Olympic medals more than European meets

If Sonia o sullivan was British, would she be anywhere near top 100 world /Olympic athletes from UK of all time ?

Of course she had the talent. What are on about. She is Ireland’s greatest female athlete and save for Ronnie Delaney’s gold in 1956 she would be Ireland’s greatest ever athlete. Full stop.

The notion she might scrap into a Ireland’s top 20 is just utter horse ****.

Who gives a **** about the UK. What type of rubbish is that. For a time in the mid 90s she was the best female middle distance runner in the world and went Into the 1996 Olympics as the overwhelming favourite. That trumps every country.

partyguinness

Water John wrote: »

Well Paula Radcliffe was her UK opposite and she was better than her.
As someone said above Sonia was the dominant clean athlete of her time.

Yes. Paula Radcliffe never win an Olympic medal. Plus she was more long distance and a few years younger. They were not direct competitors.

partyguinness

Go and just have quick look at Sonia O’Sullivan’s wiki page and see the list of achievements.

Nobody in Ireland comes close to her achievements and that applies across the board when compared to her peers in the 90s not just Ireland.

How anyone can suggest she is merely top 20 in Ireland is a god damn idiot.

deckie66

partyguinness wrote: »

Of course she had the talent. What are on about. She is Ireland’s greatest female athlete and save for Ronnie Delaney’s gold in 1956 she would be Ireland’s greatest ever athlete. Full stop.

The notion she might scrap into a Ireland’s top 20 is just utter horse ****.

Who gives a **** about the UK. What type of rubbish is that. For a time in the mid 90s she was the best female middle distance runner in the world and went Into the 1996 Olympics as the overwhelming favourite. That trumps every country.

err . . . . .Pat O'Callaghan - Olympic gold medals in both 1928 and 1932

Choochtown

partyguinness wrote: »

In the one sense criticising the set up was fine but at the same time it was too effing late to do anything about it so it was rather pointless at that stage. So Keane should have perhaps kept it for the WC post mortem.

I think Keane's decision to do the interview was his way to let off steam rather than letting it build up inside. If he bottled it up it he may very have exploded on the pitch and got sent off later on. It was almost theraputic.

After the interview, the ball was in McCarthy's court and it was his decision to call the ill fated meeting.

Keane's decision to do the interview was for the same reason he took the Villa job whilst neglecting his National team duties and the same reason he released his book the day before a crucial game and the same reason he abandoned the national team on the eve of a match to fly abroad to do punditry for ITV for a Champions League match ... MONEY

The Tetrarch

Greyfox wrote: »

Your having a laugh, the other 3 are only legends by Irish Standards. Keane is a legend by world standards, he's one of the best players to ever play in English football.

Saying "You're having a laugh" is not proof.

A legend by world standards suggests Keane was a world great.
In the 1994 World Cup Ireland got out of the group when four teams tied on four points. Keane's comment "There was nothing to celebrate. We achieved little."
The 1998 World Cup Ireland failed to qualify.
The 2002 World Cup Ireland qualified. Keane threw a hissy fit.
The 2006 World Cup. Ireland failed to qualify and Keane retired from international football to help prolong his club career.

Keane never played league football outside Ireland, England, Scotland.
He scored seven international goals, of which two were against Cyprus, one against Malta, one against Iceland, one against Northern Ireland.

Gerson, Cruyff, Platini, Mattheus, Pirlo, Zidane, Iniesta would be a few I would rate as world class midfield greats.
"Keane is a legend by world standards"? He is not.

castletownman

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Saying "You're having a laugh" is not proof.

A legend by world standards suggests Keane was a world great.
In the 1994 World Cup Ireland got out of the group when four teams tied on four points. Keane's comment "There was nothing to celebrate. We achieved little."
The 1998 World Cup Ireland failed to qualify.
The 2002 World Cup Ireland qualified. Keane threw a hissy fit.
The 2006 World Cup. Ireland failed to qualify and Keane retired from international football to help prolong his club career.

Keane never played league football outside Ireland, England, Scotland.
He scored seven international goals, of which two were against Cyprus, one against Malta, one against Iceland, one against Northern Ireland.

Gerson, Cruyff, Platini, Mattheus, Pirlo, Zidane, Iniesta would be a few I would rate as world class midfield greats.
"Keane is a legend by world standards"? He is not.

I'm going to hazard a guess that you are perhaps an ABU and are thus coloured by that. Because world standards extends to club football at that level, and there were few better midfielders than Keane in his era, in terms of determination and leadership.

All his contemporaries acknlowedge that fact, and he made United the team they were.

And the statement that he never played league football outside of England, Ireland and Scotland is churlish. He was the best player for the best team in the Premier League for an extended period. My god, he had no ambition!!! You look at it today, when an Irish player breaks into a Premier League team its considered newsworthy.

The Tetrarch

castletownman wrote: »

I'm going to hazard a guess that you are perhaps an ABU and are thus coloured by that.

Wrong. That is a weak stance to support the claim that Keane was world class.
I put up a few players that would be considered great midfielders.

A search on the net for great midfielders gives these ten:
Xavi; Zidane; Zico; Charlton; Cruyff; Rijkaard; Zizinho; Laudrup; Maradona; Goggs.

And a list of the top 50 midfielders in the world.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1572011-50-greatest-midfielders-in-the-history-of-world-football

Another list gives:
Arturo Vidal; David Silva; Yaya Toure; Bastien Schweinsteiger; Paul Pogba; Iniesta; Eden Hazard; Luka Modric; Cesc Fabregas; Arjen Robben

The three lists have a common factor - no Roy Keane.

Randy Archer

sxt wrote: »

It is Roy Keane

There is no other Irish person close. Who ever is second, is a distant second

He is the most influential sports person in Irish sporting History, and in British football history, and one of the most influential in World soccer history

19 major titles

An inspirational force of nature with the guile, skill and will to win at all costs, he almost demanded it, and he inspired his team to do it. One of a very select few Irish sports persons to excel in the heat of battle.

He literally dragged Man utd to their first Champions league win. Putting in an inspirational performance against Juventus in the the semi finals when they were looking at certain defeat against. Diego Maradona was left slack jawed at the dominance of the performance

This is a player that would have been the first pick on any team or country in the world.

This is a guy who played in the biggest and most competitive sport on the planet

His legend will live on for centuries

Influential ? Maybe in Manchester and Ireland , but the world ? Lol �� He wasn’t even Ireland’s best ever player. He will always be known for bottling it when the going got tough and allowed his personal issues get in the way (drink drink drink ) He will always be remembered for Saipan

That Sham , Conor McGregor is more well known around the world than Keane will ever be

Influential at what ? Man Utd 2008 team would quite possible match the 1998/1999 team man for man . The latter only had The Arsenal to worry about, where as Chelsea had risen by 2008 And Arsenal were still useful in the league .

Randy Archer

sxt wrote: »

It is Roy Keane

There is no other Irish person close. Who ever is second, is a distant second

He is the most influential sports person in Irish sporting History, and in British football history, and one of the most influential in World soccer history

19 major titles

An inspirational force of nature with the guile, skill and will to win at all costs, he almost demanded it, and he inspired his team to do it. One of a very select few Irish sports persons to excel in the heat of battle.

He literally dragged Man utd to their first Champions league win. Putting in an inspirational performance against Juventus in the the semi finals when they were looking at certain defeat against. Diego Maradona was left slack jawed at the dominance of the performance

This is a player that would have been the first pick on any team or country in the world.

This is a guy who played in the biggest and most competitive sport on the planet

His legend will live on for centuries

Dragged them to the final . ? Really ? Pretty sure But for Schiemeichael Heroics against Inter Milan in the QF, there’d be no semis

Wouldn’t take a lot for Maradona to have a slack jaw , especially in those days

Randy Archer

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

Ap McCoy

He’s a Brit when it suits him

Anyway, Barry Geraghty and Ruby Walsh both have vastly superior Cheltenham records despite AP starting earlier and having champion trainer Pipe as his man , before JP

Randy Archer

ratracer wrote: »

Seán Kelly!

Inclined to agree but he got busted twice for drugs , one of which he claims was cough syrup but ..

Randy Archer

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Roy Keane is not even the best footballer. In this order
1. Liam Brady
2. Paul McGrath
3. John Giles
4. Roy Keane

Ronnie Whelan is miles ahead of Roy too

Randy Archer

.anon. wrote: »

He was from Belfast, which is in Ireland, not Britain, as can clearly be seen from aerial photographs.

Belfast is part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It’s British. His family were ORANGEMEN, it way less bigoted to Irish people

Randy Archer

AdrianBalboa wrote: »

Katie Taylor has totally dominated her sport for almost twenty years but the patriarchal mainstream media and social media sites like this one will have you believe that she isn’t as important as Roy Keane or Brian O Driscoll because she has “less competition.”

The talent pool does not exist. That’s why she dominated for so long without much of a challenge , that’s why she is doing so Well in the pros .

Fair play to her, but we can’t pretend that there are too many genuine top class talents in her sport - should add, she had moments of good fortune in the good medal fight in London, that girl needed just another round or two to cause her more trouble

Nothing to do with patriarchal nonsense ,

Randy Archer

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

It’s just a vehicle for the gambling industry. Unlike soccer, et it wouldn’t exist at all as a spectator sport without being able to bet on it.

Football bets dominate the bookies business now a days

So you can’t sit down and watch horse racing without a bet, that’s on you . Don’t talk for others

Randy Archer

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I think Michelle Smith got a bit of a raw deal, she did win the medals but the controversy after overshadowed her achievement.

Not really. Her success inn1994 and 1995 sports games (Words and euro championships) were considered suspicious too . GarynO’Toole was quiet vocal then and wasn’t impressed

Her husband was dodgy and got caught ,likewise her sister in law (his sister) a Dutch swimmer

Randy Archer

py2006 wrote: »

Hard not to look passed this young lady:

Quite easy actually

Every great champion is remembered for who they bet and how good those fighters were . So....

Name Katie’s best opponents , name 3, without Wikipedia

Randy Archer

partyguinness wrote: »

I am actually going to go with Sonia O'Sullivan because it is such an individual sport.

I cannot think of any other Irish sportsperson that dominated their sport quite like she did back in the 90s.

Ya. Individual sports has to be how it’s determined. It’s not like Keane had bad Man Utd teams, and that Ireland team of 2001/2002 was a talented bunch .

She did it all. Track and cross country. Euro, worlds and Olympic medals . Tough competition and a sport were doping is rife. She was at her peak in 1996 but sadly illness stopped her ,and she got dogs abuse over it ! Such is the fickleness of the so called great Irish sports fans. It was a serious achievement ,at her age to medal in 2000

Randy Archer

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

She did not dominate her sport. Not at the elite level.

You cannot call her a dominant female distance runner, when she went to 4 olympic games and only has one solitary silver medal to show for it.

I'm sorry, but with the talent she had she should have achieved far more than that.

As regards having a baby before the 2000 olympics... I'm the person who first highlighted this on the thread, and it was a massive error in judgement on her part. She was one the favourites for gold in those games, but basically blew her chances... so she only really has herself to blame on that one.

She would certainly make any top 20 list comfortably, but she's definitely not the greatest ever. Not for me anyway.

It at elite level? Multiple world championships at two different distances, you are waffling. Athletics is not all about the Olympics. Worlds and euros are bread and butter . She bet former And reigning Olympic Champions to win those medals .

Time and time again, we have seen questionable results at the Olympics

Her health robbed her of a chance to shine in 1996, coming in as a two distance world champ and euros

2000 was a pleasant surprise

B.A._Baracus

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Agreed.
I am not the biggest fan of his attitude but you could go to the arse end of Mongolia and someone would have heard of the MMA fighter Conor McGregor.

he'd definitely win best known Irish scumbag arsehole

py2006

Randy Archer wrote: »

Quite easy actually

Every great champion is remembered for who they bet and how good those fighters were . So....

Name Katie’s best opponents , name 3, without Wikipedia

I think you are being a bit unfair. What she has achieved is phenomenal and may be you don't rate it because its women boxing and they aren't household names but she has fought tough opponents and won.

She deserves a mention

sxt

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Wrong. That is a weak stance to support the claim that Keane was world class.
I put up a few players that would be considered great midfielders.

A search on the net for great midfielders gives these ten:
Xavi; Zidane; Zico; Charlton; Cruyff; Rijkaard; Zizinho; Laudrup; Maradona; Goggs.

And a list of the top 50 midfielders in the world.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1572011-50-greatest-midfielders-in-the-history-of-world-football

Another list gives:
Arturo Vidal; David Silva; Yaya Toure; Bastien Schweinsteiger; Paul Pogba; Iniesta; Eden Hazard; Luka Modric; Cesc Fabregas; Arjen Robben

The three lists have a common factor - no Roy Keane.

A search on the net is not always the most reliable resource. I just searched "most beautiful women all time" and the top answer has scarlet johansson number 1,Beyonce, Kate moss, Marilyn Monroe all in the in the top ten

How about the opinion of former England captain and midfielder legend , Stephen Gerrard

https://www.skysports.com/amp/football/news/11095/11974156/steven-gerrard-and-jamie-carragher-pick-their-world-xi-but-with-a-twist&ved=2ahUKEwiG7Ifd1O3qAhV8XhUIHeo6AtoQFjACegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw2C75i8jPbGaz402ByIgcsP&ampcf=1

Randy Archer

py2006 wrote: »

I think you are being a bit unfair. What she has achieved is phenomenal and may be you don't rate it because its women boxing and they aren't household names but she has fought tough opponents and won.

She deserves a mention

The issue isn’t that she deserves a mention, the issue was a whinge that she wasn’t considered as the best or one of the best , for the nonsensical argument about men being bad and mean

No one talks like that about Sonia

Nothing unfair about it, Taylor has no competition

Working class heroes

Another one from a minority sport that deserves a mention.

https://www.the42.ie/world-champion-irish-mountain-runner-youve-never-heard-of-2197494-Jul2015/.

John Lenihan dominating at his chosen field locally for two decades and also won a world title a year after collapsing in the same event.

The Tetrarch

sxt wrote: »

A search on the net is not always the most reliable resource.

What about this search of the internet?

The Ballon d'Or is an annual football award presented by French news magazine France Football, one of the oldest and generally regarded as the most prestigious individual award for football players.
It shows the top three players each year from 1956 to present.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballon_d%27Or

... based on voting by football journalists, from 1956 to 2006.
After 2007, coaches and captains of national teams were also given the right to vote.
Originally, it was an award only for players from Europe and widely known as the European Footballer of the Year award.
In 1995, the Ballon d'Or was expanded to include all players from any origin that have been active at European clubs.
The award became a global prize in 2007 with all professional footballers from around the world being eligible.

But that is only the opinion of football journalists, national coaches and captains. (fwiw Gerrard came 3rd in 2005.)
Roy Keane played when the award was restricted to European players and he did not feature.
If it assessed world players from 1956 onwards he would have less chance.

Roy Keane was not in the 1,2,3 in any year.

eagle eye

castletownman wrote:

I'm going to hazard a guess that you are perhaps an ABU and are thus coloured by that. Because world standards extends to club football at that level, and there were few better midfielders than Keane in his era, in terms of determination and leadership.

I'm not an ABU or anything close. I think Roy Keane was a great player. Can you tell me what world awards he was given?
Did he make a world eleven for a couple of seasons?
Was he ever shortlisted for the Ballon D'Or or world player of the year?

castletownman wrote:

All his contemporaries acknlowedge that fact, and he made United the team they were.

You'll see lots of players with great things said about them by their contemporaries.

castletownman wrote:

And the statement that he never played league football outside of England, Ireland and Scotland is churlish. He was the best player for the best team in the Premier League for an extended period. My god, he had no ambition!!! You look at it today, when an Irish player breaks into a Premier League team its considered newsworthy.

He was considered one of the two best midfielders along with Viera for a few years. He was never considered as out in his own as the best in the league.
Alan Shearer and Denis Bergkamp were considered the best players in the league by many for a few years in the 90's, then it was Viera and Keane for a spell. He only received one PFA player of the year award as did Paul McGrath.
He only made the PFA team of the year twice.
On the world stage he doesn't rate that highly. I remember watching him getting bossed by Steffen Effenberg and Redondo in games that stand out in my memory.

castletownman

Well no other Irish soccer player featured in the Ballon D'or reckoning either, and while Paul McGrath holds god-like status both here and in Villa, I'd say he isn't as universally known as Keane either.

The fact is that no Irish player won an individual world award in soccer (unless you include Northern Irish international George Best in 1968), so you'd rank their greatness on the career they had. Seven Premier League titles, four as captain (no-one has captained their side to more)- only Neville, Scholes and Giggs have won more.

And Match of the Day ran a top 10 series during the lockdown, where he came out top as best ever captain of the Premier League era, and best foreign import.

This is a thread about the best Irish sports person ever, not the most universally acknowledged and successful Irish sports star on the world stage. Keane is definitely in the top bracket regardless. I wouldn't say Sonia O'Sullivan is as known world-wide in athletics either going by the parameters some people are using.

The Tetrarch

eagle eye wrote: »

Was he ever shortlisted for the Ballon D'Or or world player of the year?

He was 6th in the Ballon d'Or voting in 1999 (36 votes), 27th in 2000 (1 vote).
He didn't feature in any other years.

eagle eye

castletownman wrote:

The fact is that no Irish player won an individual world award in soccer (unless you include Northern Irish international George Best in 1968), so you'd rank their greatness on the career they had. Seven Premier League titles, four as captain (no-one has captained their side to more)- only Neville, Scholes and Giggs have won more.

Yes but Katie Taylor has been Olympic and World Champ as an amateur and been given an award as the best amateur boxer. She then went pro, is unbeaten and unified the titles at one weight and recently won a title at another and has been given the world's best female professional boxer of the year by both American and British sports writers so I think she's miles ahead of any soccer player.

castletownman

eagle eye wrote: »

Yes but Katie Taylor has been Olympic and World Champ as an amateur and been given an award as the best amateur boxer. She then went pro, is unbeaten and unified the titles at one weight and recently won a title at another and has been given the world's best female professional boxer of the year by both American and British sports writers so I think she's miles ahead of any soccer player.

And I haven't once questioned her status as an all-time great.

In fact, in my list of Ireland's greatest sports person, Katie and Harrington are neck-to-neck and I can't split them. Roy Keane is third.

Feisar

Matt Connor