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The UK response - Part II - read OP
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Joe_ Public wrote: »Sure, god, i dont know. There must be 100s of fine consulting firms across the uk that could have done it. But what was it they were lacking? What critical layer of expertise did mckinseys have that they didnt? Tough one.
There must be 100s of tech firms could have worked on the app, but they just lacked the missing ingredient that Faculty had. Wonder what that was.
Lots of firms could have done good jobs on ppe or testing but what did they lack that the likes of Pestfix or Randox had? It'll come to me in a minute.
What did Serco have that other firms lacked when it came to the nightingale labs contract? What is it about the name of Serco ceo Rupert Soames that feels oddly familiar?
It really seems that there's a consistent pattern here, just have to work out what it is.
It's a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.0 -
Professor Moriarty wrote: »It's a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.
It's terrible because i feel like the answer is right there, staring me in the face. But i just can't seem to work it out. Stumped!0 -
Not forgetting Dyson being given an order to make ventilators, having received a call directly from Johnson himself:Joe_ Public wrote: »Sure, god, i dont know. There must be 100s of fine consulting firms across the uk that could have done it. But what was it they were lacking? What critical layer of expertise did mckinseys have that they didnt? Tough one.
There must be 100s of tech firms could have worked on the app, but they just lacked the missing ingredient that Faculty had. Wonder what that was.
Lots of firms could have done good jobs on ppe or testing but what did they lack that the likes of Pestfix or Randox had? It'll come to me in a minute.
What did Serco have that other firms lacked when it came to the nightingale labs contract? What is it about the name of Serco ceo Rupert Soames that feels oddly familiar?
It really seems that there's a consistent pattern here, just have to work out what it is.Dyson said the company had designed and built an entirely new ventilator ... since he received a call 10 days ago from UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson.0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »It's terrible because i feel like the answer is right there, staring me in the face. But i just can't seem to work it out. Stumped!
Hiding in plain sight. I'm sure the Daily Mail will get to the bottom of it and let us know.0 -
Not forgetting Dyson being given an order to make ventilators, having received a call directly from Johnson himself:
For sure. It was by no means an exhaustive list, or even any where remotely close to it.
In other semi-related news, i was half listening to Gavin Williamson on the news earlier and only perked up when i heard him use the phrase "world beating" in reference to the new education system he was designing. Those poor kids! But they're not scheduled to be tory voters for another, oh, 30 years or more, so no big deal really.0 -
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Joe_ Public wrote: »Sure, god, i dont know. There must be 100s of fine consulting firms across the uk that could have done it. But what was it they were lacking? What critical layer of expertise did mckinseys have that they didnt? Tough one.
There must be 100s of tech firms could have worked on the app, but they just lacked the missing ingredient that Faculty had. Wonder what that was.
Lots of firms could have done good jobs on ppe or testing but what did they lack that the likes of Pestfix or Randox had? It'll come to me in a minute.
What did Serco have that other firms lacked when it came to the nightingale labs contract? What is it about the name of Serco ceo Rupert Soames that feels oddly familiar?
It really seems that there's a consistent pattern here, just have to work out what it is.
Go look in the job boards and you’ll see loads and loads of jobs for relationship managers, vendor managers etc, ads for customer relationship management software (crm). And supplier relationship management (srm) tools. Yiu May have heard of sales force, they employ a few people in Ireland I believe.
Business is done on relationships and those relationships take time to build and are very valuable.
So what did McKinsey have that the others didn’t? A relationship.
In an ideal world, a full procurement process would have been carried out rather than doing this (most probably) on a time and materials basis against an already agreed rate card, but of that had happened, we would have been waiting until the new year and at the moment, time is of the essence, is it not?
McKinsey are a huge consultancy that do work for large companies, charities and lots of governments and government agencies, the fact they did this is nothing unusual and Serco, well they’ve been doing more or less nothing but government contracts for decades, so again them being chosen is nothing unusual.0 -
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Go look in the job boards and you’ll see loads and loads of jobs for relationship managers, vendor managers etc, ads for customer relationship management software (crm). And supplier relationship management (srm) tools. Yiu May have heard of sales force, they employ a few people in Ireland I believe.
Business is done on relationships and those relationships take time to build and are very valuable.
So what did McKinsey have that the others didn’t? A relationship.
In an ideal world, a full procurement process would have been carried out rather than doing this (most probably) on a time and materials basis against an already agreed rate card, but of that had happened, we would have been waiting until the new year and at the moment, time is of the essence, is it not?
McKinsey are a huge consultancy that do work for large companies, charities and lots of governments and government agencies, the fact they did this is nothing unusual and Serco, well they’ve been doing more or less nothing but government contracts for decades, so again them being chosen is nothing unusual.
Relationships! Yes, that's it. Thank you, i was struggling to join the dots but you've done it for me. Relationships ie good old fashioned etonian old boy network self serving cronyism.
Serco does indeed have a long history of serving the uk government in very lucrative and incompetent fashion - controversy over detention centres, controversy over electronic tagging, controversy over its breast cancer screening services - so naturally that litany of failure ensured it remained in the front line when there were all these juicy covid contracts to be dished out without even as much as a cursory check.
Nothing at all to be said for taking a bit of extra time to implement systems that were robust and efficient - or, strewth, that just even worked - nah, just line up all the old boys we have, eh, relationships with, give em the dosh and go off and bungle their way along with it.
Nice work if you can get it.0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »Relationships! Yes, that's it. Thank you, i was struggling to join the dots but you've done it for me. Relationships ie good old fashioned etonian old boy network self serving cronyism.
Serco does indeed have a long history of serving the uk government in very lucrative and incompetent fashion - controversy over detention centres, controversy over electronic tagging, controversy over its breast cancer screening services - so naturally that litany of failure ensured it remained in the front line when there were all these juicy covid contracts to be dished out without even as much as a cursory check.
Nothing at all to be said for taking a bit of extra time to implement systems that were robust and efficient - or, strewth, that just even worked - nah, just line up all the old boys we have, eh, relationships with, give em the dosh and go off and bungle their way along with it.
Nice work if you can get it.
So you still haven’t answered my question, who should have done it?0 -
What test and trace - maybe the organisations that are having to do it now after the failed central solution - the local authorities. I wonder what they could have achieved with the money p***ed away on consultants.
In hind sight, maybe.
But then in hindsight, there was no need to build those extra hospitals either.0 -
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So you still haven’t answered my question, who should have done it?
Sure i already answered, i dont know. I dont know who SHOULD have done it, just i know there must be literally scores of firms who COULD have done it. Like all the government contracts handed out, including the ones to Dom Cummings mates.0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »Sure, god, i dont know. There must be 100s of fine consulting firms across the uk that could have done it. But what was it they were lacking? What critical layer of expertise did mckinseys have that they didnt? Tough one.
There must be 100s of tech firms could have worked on the app, but they just lacked the missing ingredient that Faculty had. Wonder what that was.
Lots of firms could have done good jobs on ppe or testing but what did they lack that the likes of Pestfix or Randox had? It'll come to me in a minute.
What did Serco have that other firms lacked when it came to the nightingale labs contract? What is it about the name of Serco ceo Rupert Soames that feels oddly familiar?
It really seems that there's a consistent pattern here, just have to work out what it is.
Think this is my favourite post on here0 -
The issue isn't so much as which company got the work but how they got it and why!McKinsey are a huge consultancy that do work for large companies, charities and lots of governments and government agencies, the fact they did this is nothing unusual and Serco, well they’ve been doing more or less nothing but government contracts for decades, so again them being chosen is nothing unusual.
Isnt that the purpose of a tendering process? To find a company that is able to meet and exceed the requirements at a cost efficient price?So you still haven’t answered my question, who should have done it?
Over the last number of months there have been numerous high value public contracts given to Tory linked companies who show no commercial and/or resourcing advantages over competitors other than they are somehow linked to the Tory party.
It's unfortunate that the usual suspects are so quick to defend these clearly dodgy awardings - putting the party before the people!0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »Sure i already answered, i dont know. I dont know who SHOULD have done it, just i know there must be literally scores of firms who COULD have done it. Like all the government contracts handed out, including the ones to Dom Cummings mates.
So you don’t know the answer only that something something Dominic Cummings.
Hurling from the ditch is easier than coming up with a solution I guess.0 -
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Seth Brundle wrote: »The issue isn't so much as which company got the work but how they got it and why!
Isnt that the purpose of a tendering process? To find a company that is able to meet and exceed the requirements at a cost efficient price?
Over the last number of months there have been numerous high value public contracts given to Tory linked companies who show no commercial and/or resourcing advantages over competitors other than they are somehow linked to the Tory party.
It's unfortunate that the usual suspects are so quick to defend these clearly dodgy awardings - putting the party before the people!
Tendering processes are great if you have time.
There would already be a framework agreement in place with an agreed rate card, so easier to crack on with that, if you are confident that the consultant can do the work.
It isn’t so much about defending what has happened, there should be an open discussion and enquiry post all of this to ensure the appropriate steps were taken, but I can fully understand why the government took the steps it has.
The fact that the person who was earmarked to run this (who had already been chair of the NHS improvement board for three years) worked with the consultancy fifteen years ago should be examined, but in my opinion, it will be little more than something the press can **** stir about. She has an MBA from Harvard, was on the fast track at Tesco before Sainsburys head hunted her and she was tipped to be CEO there before Charles Dunstone stoke her for Talk Talk.
She is no fool.0 -
BonnieSituation wrote: »I'm impressed just how well you do oblivious and support the team no matter what.
I’m impressed with your ability to write so many posts and add nothing to a thread.0 -
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BonnieSituation wrote: »Oh Aegir, never change. I'm guaranteed a few laughs a day with your sycophantic witterings.
Still nothing to add?0 -
Still nothing to add?
Just as much as your goodself. You've had a busy day.
I'll wait til tomorrow morning to see what follows from Wednesday's inept UKGov output.
That you see no thread of corruption at all these last few months and are willing to keep up the defence to such a degree is very odd.
Little to add to today's lot. You have done sterling work mind, fighting the good fight. Get some rest.0 -
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BonnieSituation wrote: »Just as much as your goodself. You've had a busy day.
I'll wait til tomorrow morning to see what follows from Wednesday's inept UKGov output.
That you see no thread of corruption at all these last few months and are willing to keep up the defence to such a degree is very odd.
Little to add to today's lot. You have done sterling work mind, fighting the good fight. Get some rest.
Still nothing to add.
Go on, give it a try and add something to the thread, or any thread for that matter, that is worth discussing.0 -
So you don’t know the answer only that something something Dominic Cummings.
Hurling from the ditch is easier than coming up with a solution I guess.
A solution to what? To doling out billions of pounds in contracts to often incompetent or worse firms on the flimsy pretext we dont have time to find anyone else so we'll just give it to our pals we always look after even though they're probably as likely as not to make a total bags of it? Yes, i have a solution to that. Stop doing it. Cease and desist with immediate effect.0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »A solution to what? To doling out billions of pounds in contracts to often incompetent or worse firms on the flimsy pretext we dont have time to find anyone else so we'll just give it to our pals we always look after even though they're probably as likely as not to make a total bags of it? Yes, i have a solution to that. Stop doing it. Cease and desist with immediate effect.
So they should have stopped any contact tracing and buying of PPE?0 -
Join Date:Posts: 72062
BonnieSituation wrote: »I'm impressed just how well you do oblivious and support the team no matter what.I’m impressed with your ability to write so many posts and add nothing to a thread.BonnieSituation wrote: »Oh Aegir, never change. I'm guaranteed a few laughs a day with your sycophantic witterings.Still nothing to add?
Give it a rest the pair of you.Back to the topic or I'll remove posting privileges hereStill nothing to add.
Go on, give it a try and add something to the thread, or any thread for that matter, that is worth discussing.0 -
So they should have stopped any contact tracing and buying of PPE?
Like, eh? There have been scores of reports of firms and individuals, with experience in the field, who say they contacted government departments with offers to deliver ppe and never even got the courtesy of a reply. Literally, scores of such reports. Meanwhile, the likes of Pestfix, with experience in pest control, and hardly any assets or employees, gets a multi million pound contract. Or our pals Ayanda, a £250m contract to flunk its lines when the time came to deliver. I guess this is just what hsppens when you are building up "relationships", in it for the long haul for better or worse, no matter how many billions spaffed up against a wall.
You mentioned earlier about hindsight and contact tracing. Not so. This was being said months ago, both here and elsewhere. Local health authorities were pleading for ages to be given the resources to handle outbreaks in their own areas, didnt take a genius to figure out that was the way to go. But for reasons they will ultimately need to explain, England rigidly stuck to its centralised system, froze the councils out and handed Serco many millions to build a testing and tracing system that was racked with problems and has never fully worked from the beginning. Incompetence and cronyism on an epic scale that has cost lives and, one way or another, will ultimately have to be answered for.0 -
could you provide some evidence to back up your claim that she is "Compliant with receiving direction from Cummings"?
Do you have evidence that she doesn't take her order from Cummings?I’m impressed with your ability to write so many posts and add nothing to a thread.
Pot, meet kettle, see below as an exampleStill nothing to add?
There will be missteps all the way until a new government or PM and cabinet takes over. This will happen because those in cabinet are appointed because they are loyal to Johnson and Brexit and not because they are the brightest or most talented. The warning signs were there before Johnson took over (£40m spent on the garden bridge, Boris Island airport) so you cannot even claim to not have known. The fact there is apparent upset about the Withdrawal Agreement that Johnson claimed is his oven-ready deal that he negotiated should have had the warning lights flashing.
The rush to defend any missteps is funny to see here. I find it fascinating that any argument will be used to justify the decisions made by this disaster of a government. I am sure Aegir and theological would be out to tell us as well that those predicting 40% downgrade of A-level scores were wrong as well because the real number is 39.1% and they weren't downgraded but they were standardised as well to boot. We all know 39.1% isn't close to 40% so anyone pointing that was just wrong.
I will give Cummings credit, he is very good as seeing the truth and posting about it, thread
https://twitter.com/ianbirrell/status/1295782385980776449?s=20Some quotes from self-declared superforecaster Dominic Cummings that are interesting in light of the PM's refusal to hire anyone that challenges him and this government's shambolic incompetence on everything from protecting people in pandemic to the exam fiasco
1) 'Everyone is discouraged from telling the truth to important people. It isn’t a culture in which you admit mistakes. There’s no grip, no focus.' He was attacking Cameron's coalition but sounds familiar, doesn't it?
2) 'The people at the apex of political power (elected and unelected) are far from the best people in the world in terms of goals, intelligence, ethics, or competence.' Yes, his government proves this point daily...
3) He complained about 'largely incompetent political decision-makers making the same sort of mistake repeatedly and wasting vast resources'. True, true...
4) 'We prefer to enhance prestige rather than face reality and admit ignorance or error.' Yes, this is the same man who pretended he drove to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight and works as chief strategist for a government that still has Gavin Williamson overseeing schools
5) 'It is depressingly possible that those who climb to the top of the hierarchy are more likely to focus only on their own interests.' Point proven.
6) 'MPs and officials have to make constant forecasts but have little idea about how to make them, how the statistics and computer models underlying these forecasts work, or how to judge the reliability of their own views.' Err...like with exam result algorithms?
7) 'Political institutions tend to become dominated by narcissists. Elected representatives are often chosen from a subset of people who have very high opinions of themselves.' Dom knows Boris all too well...
8) 'Whitehall suffers from a lack of internal mechanisms to enforce honesty about errors.' Whitehall? Or Downing Street...
9) 'Many accident reports, from air crashes to Fukushima, show that reflexive obedience to the chief lies behind fatal errors.' Yes, this was from the guy behind a government that places total obedience before competence and has driven out critics.
10) 'Cameron regards his job as like a steward in charge of the ‘ship of state’ – his job is not to crash it into the rocks.' If only Boris Johnson would see his job as avoiding crashing into rocks....
11) 'No 10 and the Cabinet Office are themselves a major source of chaos so it no surprise that the rest of government is in permanent omnishambles.' He was talking about the Coalition but certainly true today...
12) 'The occupants of No 10, like Tolstoy’s characters in War and Peace, are blown around by forces they do not comprehend.' (See 11 above )
13) 'Our leaders are like 19th Century Germans who had lost religion of whom Nietzsche said ‘they merely register their existence in the world with a kind of dumb amazement’. They carry on in a state of ‘dumb amazement’ without realising how absurd their situation' (See 11 again)
14) 'I don't want confident public school bluffers.' Most definitely agreed after seeing Boris in Downing Street.
15) 'We want to improve performance and make me much less important — and within a year largely redundant.' Four months to go since this was written in January (although performance seems to be deteriorating)0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »Like, eh? There have been scores of reports of firms and individuals, with experience in the field, who say they contacted government departments with offers to deliver ppe and never even got the courtesy of a reply. Literally, scores of such reports.
and is that still the case, or are you basing this on reports from April still?Joe_ Public wrote: »You mentioned earlier about hindsight and contact tracing. Not so. This was being said months ago, both here and elsewhere. Local health authorities were pleading for ages to be given the resources to handle outbreaks in their own areas, didnt take a genius to figure out that was the way to go. But for reasons they will ultimately need to explain, England rigidly stuck to its centralised system, froze the councils out and handed Serco many millions to build a testing and tracing system that was racked with problems and has never fully worked from the beginning. Incompetence and cronyism on an epic scale that has cost lives and, one way or another, will ultimately have to be answered for.
Interesting read https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/06/29/chris-ham-the-government-should-give-local-leaders-control-over-nhs-test-and-trace/Dido Harding was appointed to take charge of NHS Test and Trace in May as the easing of the lockdown approached. She immediately appointed experienced leaders from the NHS and local government to reshape the service. These leaders have done so by seeking to give the NHS more say over testing and local government a leadership role on contract tracing in a reverse takeover of a service that had previously been developed from the top down.
But I guess she only did that because Dominic Harding told her to:rolleyes:0 -
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Do you have evidence that she doesn't take her order from Cummings?
Pot, meet kettle, see below as an example
There will be missteps all the way until a new government or PM and cabinet takes over. This will happen because those in cabinet are appointed because they are loyal to Johnson and Brexit and not because they are the brightest or most talented. The warning signs were there before Johnson took over (£40m spent on the garden bridge, Boris Island airport) so you cannot even claim to not have known. The fact there is apparent upset about the Withdrawal Agreement that Johnson claimed is his oven-ready deal that he negotiated should have had the warning lights flashing.
The rush to defend any missteps is funny to see here. I find it fascinating that any argument will be used to justify the decisions made by this disaster of a government. I am sure Aegir and theological would be out to tell us as well that those predicting 40% downgrade of A-level scores were wrong as well because the real number is 39.1% and they weren't downgraded but they were standardised as well to boot. We all know 39.1% isn't close to 40% so anyone pointing that was just wrong.
I will give Cummings credit, he is very good as seeing the truth and posting about it, thread
https://twitter.com/ianbirrell/status/1295782385980776449?s=20
"We want to improve importance and make me much less important".
Remember, this is an unelected advisor.0 -
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Latest KCL figures are at 1214 cases per day down from over 1400 last week. Total cases of symptomatic coronavirus are at the lowest yet at 20,119.
This is huge progress.
Edit: The UK remains on the bottom end of ECDC incidence table.0
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