The UK response - Part II - read OP

Joe_ Public

Aegir wrote: »

nothing is manned by Deloitte and it has nothing to do with capability, it is about capacity.

Lighthouse is a consortium of various labs from different backgrounds. the consortium was put together as part of a project in April, which Deloitte managed. https://www.lighthouselabs.org.uk/

I know how they work. It is Deloitte that managed the whole logistics of the private lighthouse labs and that is where the testing system is failing. If there is a failure with capacity, then ergo it is a question of competence and capability. A "world beating" testing system, the envy of the entire world, should simply not be facing those issues.

They had a choice six/seven months back when scaling up, to use existing nhs and university labs, where the expertise and infrastructure already existed, to invest in that and build it up as seemed the rational option to most people. Or, as they chose, to pump 100s of millions into the private sector and build a new system from scratch with all the attendant risks and problems that brought.

Remember back in june or july when 50,000 tests had to be flown to the US and it was explained away as "teething problems." The same thing is still happening only the excuses have changed. Just rank incompetence at a bare minimum.

S.M.B.

Aegir wrote: »

nothing is manned by Deloitte and it has nothing to do with capability, it is about capacity.

Lighthouse is a consortium of various labs from different backgrounds. the consortium was put together as part of a project in April, which Deloitte managed. https://www.lighthouselabs.org.uk/

The quote from the BMJ was saying that the centralised nature of the Lighthouse network of labs results in an unscalable system as it continuously fails to keep up with the ever growing demand for Tier 2 tests. The centralises system is resulting in the bottle necks that limit the capacity.

Joe_ Public

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I know how they work.

you clearly don't if you think that Deloitte man the Lighthouse labs.

Joe_ Public wrote: »

They had a choice six/seven months back when scaling up, to use existing nhs and university labs, where the expertise and infrastructure already existed, to invest in that and build it up as seemed the rational option to most people. Or, as they chose, to pump 100s of millions into the private sector and build a new system from scratch with all the attendant risks and problems that brought.

or better still, do both. Pillar one testing, which is the NHS and PHE labs, has gone from 12,000 per day to over 70,000 per day. There is a finite level at which NHS and PHE can manage, so it makes sense to bring in private sector partner, especially when they have the capacity and capability to help.

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Remember back in june or july when 50,000 tests had to be flown to the US and it was explained away as "teething problems." The same thing is still happening only the excuses have changed. Just rank incompetence at a bare minimum.

maybe they should have got an expert to manage it. Clearly you have the knowledge and expertise to do this.

S.M.B.

S.M.B. wrote: »

The quote from the BMJ was saying that the centralised nature of the Lighthouse network of labs results in an unscalable system as it continuously fails to keep up with the ever growing demand for Tier 2 tests. The centralises system is resulting in the bottle necks that limit the capacity.

So they have identified the bottleneck, they now need to address that. They have gone from what, 12-15,000 tests per day to over 250,000. That is quite impressive and if they want to do as Boris announced and take it to the next level, they need to improve the system.

Joe_ Public

Aegir wrote: »

you clearly don't if you think that Deloitte man the Lighthouse labs.



or better still, do both. Pillar one testing, which is the NHS and PHE labs, has gone from 12,000 per day to over 70,000 per day. There is a finite level at which NHS and PHE can manage, so it makes sense to bring in private sector partner, especially when they have the capacity and capability to help.



maybe they should have got an expert to manage it. Clearly you have the knowledge and expertise to do this.

I meant managed and subsequently clarified it but you know that anyway. Bottom line is they promised a world beating testing system months ago and its still racked with problems and logistical setbacks which are nearly completely at the private end of the opetation. And still people excuse this and bat it away by saying its a "capacity" problem as if its some sort of unforeseen event they could do nothing about. Their actual capacity is what they can process through their labs and who really knows what that figure is as no one in their right mind still trusts anything the government or its health department tells them.

As for your glib last comment...just let that rubbish pass.

If the app, the world beating app to be correct, works, then thanks be.

If project moonshot follows the same trajectory, we should see that particular rocket make it over the roof of the semi-d across the road. Just. Unless it hits the chimney.

Joe_ Public

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I meant managed and subsequently clarified it but you know that anyway. Bottom line is they promised a world beating testing system months ago and its still racked with problems and logistical setbacks which are nearly completely at the private end of the opetation. And still people excuse this and bat it away by saying its a "capacity" problem as if its some sort of unforeseen event they could do nothing about. Their actual capacity is what they can process through their labs and who really knows what that figure is as no one in their right mind still trusts anything the government or its health department tells them.

As for your glib last comment...just let that rubbish pass.

Maybe you could tell us where testing is being carried out in a world beating manner?

As you're an expert and all.

Joe_ Public

Aegir wrote: »

Maybe you could tell us where testing is being carried out in a world beating manner?

As you're an expert and all.

No, i couldnt say. I could point out a good few countries that have very efficient and well organised testing systems, but i know of only one government that claims to have a "world beating" one. As well as a world beating tracing system, world beating furlough scheme etc etc etc.

Christy42

Joe_ Public wrote: »

No, i couldnt say. I could point out a good few countries that have very efficient and well organised testing systems, but i know of only one government that claims to have a "world beating" one. As well as a world beating tracing system, world beating furlough scheme etc etc etc.

It seems to be part of unthinking nationalism that everything must be better than anyone else if it is local. Not enough to have a top of the range. They have to reinforce that they think everyone else is worse. The US, China and North Korea are big for it as well.

Stick on a few more flags on stage and go for it. It always feels like it is making up for something. Like the mass flags you see in the US.

Joe_ Public

Christy42 wrote: »

It seems to be part of unthinking nationalism that everything must be better than anyone else if it is local. Not enough to have a top of the range. They have to reinforce that they think everyone else is worse. The US, China and North Korea are big for it as well.

Stick on a few more flags on stage and go for it. It always feels like it is making up for something. Like the mass flags you see in the US.

I did have to raise my eyebrows during pmqs the other day when Johnson was wittering on about their amazing, "unique" furlough scheme, even as reports were appearing in the newspapers that they were considering basically cogging Germany's much lauded "kurzarbeit" system.

Christy42

Christy42 wrote: »

It seems to be part of unthinking nationalism that everything must be better than anyone else if it is local. Not enough to have a top of the range. They have to reinforce that they think everyone else is worse. The US, China and North Korea are big for it as well.

Stick on a few more flags on stage and go for it. It always feels like it is making up for something. Like the mass flags you see in the US.

I get you.

Its the constant droning on about the "Best fans in the world" during every world cup that really gets me.

Christy42

Aegir wrote: »

I get you.

Its the constant droning on about the "Best fans in the world" during every world cup that really gets me.

This a shot at Ireland? I don't watch enough football to recognise it. I know we had some good press over the euros for it but best in the world seems like a tough line to prove. As I said it is generally making up for something, if it was about Ireland I suspect it was because we had no hope of winning the actual competition! Can't imagine the winners cared too much about their fans helping people cross the street or whatever was happening. In the case of the British government it seems to be because they have made a massive mess upon mess of their response to this crisis.

Where our politicians saying it each match or are you trying to connect some broadcasters filling some dead air/tabloid clickbait vs announcements by the British government?

theological

There's a huge amount of willy waving in this thread. It's bottomed out in terms of good helpful content about the UK and coronavirus.

theological

So just took my first swab sample for the ONS. They just sent a delivery guy to my door who had no idea about how to take the swab. He told us there was a video we needed to watch. On googling I found it. Highly incompetent... Only 4 more to go.

is_that_so

There will probably be a lot more of this, especially as Boris & Co look like they are no longer in control.

Police have moved to break up a protest in central London after thousands of people defied their advice and demonstrated against lockdowns, mass vaccinations, mandatory wearing of face masks and other coronavirus restrictions.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/26/london-lockdown-protesters-urged-to-follow-covid-rules

Sudden Valley

I dont think Boris can be blamed for a large rally of non-mask wearing protestors turning up in London. I think by Christmas there nay infortunately may be lot more people agreeing with their position as fatigie sets in.

4068ac1elhodqr

Sudden Valley wrote: »

I dont think Boris can be blamed for a large rally of non-mask wearing protestors turning up in London..

Could be right, the Gubbins lad drove 100's of kms to check his eyesight, under lockdown. Their advisor (the good Professor 'doom') also drove a fair distance for an immoral swinging session, Boris's old man went to Greece, plenty of other lockdown rule breakers to blame. Days ago, one of their brexit-partners, the gammon faced Sammy was spotted looking feckles, without any mask on, during a Tube journey.
Lead by example.

Sudden Valley

I see Labour has overtaken the Tories for the first time in a long time in opinion polls published today. I think the UK is struggling similar to other countries around them with Covid but perhaps their messaging has been too optimistic (like the pandemic will be over by Christmas) and has given the public unrealistic expectations. Boris's first term may be judged more on his Covid response than his getting Brexit done.

theological

Sudden Valley wrote: »

I see Labour has overtaken the Tories for the first time in a long time in opinion polls published today. I think the UK is struggling similar to other countries around them with Covid but perhaps their messaging has been too optimistic (like the pandemic will be over by Christmas) and has given the public unrealistic expectations. Boris's first term may be judged more on his Covid response than his getting Brexit done.

The opinion polls don't matter so much when an election is far off.

What's more interesting on the parliamentary horizon is the debate about whether MPs should debate the coronavirus restrictions in parliament before they are enacted.

There's a vote about whether or not the coronavirus powers should be extended and Graham Brady (chair of the Conservative 1922 committee) has put an amendment requiring debate and votes from MPs going forward. He's got 46 Tory rebels the SNP and Labour on side so it'll be interesting to see if they manage to do it.

I think everyone would agree that coronavirus is a bigger priority than Brexit.

BonnieSituation

I'm sure if the Tories were leading in the polls it would be spun another way.

---

My partner's friend manages a group of nursing homes around the SE of England and there are rumblings that London and the SE are being prepped for a full on lockdown in a fortnight. Now, I don't know the exact details but that's what she has said based on a board member who seems to have gotten forewarning from his contacts in govt. the last few times there's been changes/lockdowns etc. that have affected the business.

On foot of this info they have been moving patients around their group of homes. These were scheduled to happen anyway, but they're being moved up on foot of this info.

I guess we'll see...

greensheep777

If Ireland spent as much time looking at its own statistics and measures as it did looking at the UK, it might actually get somewhere. We're independent about 100 years now, start acting like it. I doubt the Brits are making these lengthy threads about us.

BonnieSituation

greensheep777 wrote: »

If Ireland spent as much time looking at its own statistics and measures as it did looking at the UK, it might actually get somewhere. We're independent about 100 years now, start acting like it. I doubt the Brits are making these lengthy threads about us.

Yes, the people posting in here are why we have had an uptick in cases of late.

Man, you've cracked it.

PommieBast

BonnieSituation wrote: »

My partner's friend manages a group of nursing homes around the SE of England and there are rumblings that London and the SE are being prepped for a full on lockdown in a fortnight.

I've heard similar noises from family members so looks like one is in the pipe-line.

JP Liz V1

Over 32 unis with cases

4068ac1elhodqr

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Over 32 unis with cases

Wonder if it's a social-health type experiment on herd immunity on groups of 18-25yo's in close confinement, not allowed to return to their country abodes.

It sure would save some monies, heard of a uk trial that pays healthy people (pre-entry) £5k for 2weeks supervised stay in a hotel (likely: playstations, netflix) while under observation after being given the China Flu. Oh, and some experimental medicines (wavier signed at the door).

Edward Important Minefield

Edward Important Minefield wrote: »

Wonder if it's a social-health type experiment on herd immunity on groups of 18-25yo's in close confinement, not allowed to return to their country abodes.

It sure would save some monies, heard of a uk trial that pays healthy people (pre-entry) £5k for 2weeks supervised stay in a hotel (likely: playstations, netflix) while under observation after being given the China Flu. Oh, and some experimental medicines (wavier signed at the door).

A social health experiment that every government and every university in Europe is taking part in?

nacho libre

theological wrote: »

The opinion polls don't matter so much when an election is far off.

What's more interesting on the parliamentary horizon is the debate about whether MPs should debate the coronavirus restrictions in parliament before they are enacted.


I think everyone would agree that coronavirus is a bigger priority than Brexit.

It's interesting you mention the restrictions and parliament, as it's seems the parliament bars are exempt from the 10pm curfew. Regarding the latest poll, you might have a bias in spinning them considering you support the Tories, but ultimately the poll does not mean much. If/when a vaccine is rolled out a poll taken at that time may show something different

A Dub in Glasgo

Looks like my local MP has lost the plot - I think she is toast

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1311720525237018624

That is a real “WTF were you thinking?” moment.

Not sure what she does now though. It seems appropriate to resign, but is a by-election in anyone’s interest at the moment? The SNP will need to be seen doing something, but what I guess.

S.M.B.

So many stupid decisions in a short space of time. What a terrible example to set to someone who has to take two weeks off work because an app told them they were sat nearby someone who tested positive.

And my trust in the UK government is so low at the moment that I'm now suspicious that these fines that are being introduced that I'll disincentivise people to get tests is very much an intentional move to keep test demand and numbers low.