The UK response - Part II - read OP

Timberrrrrrrr

3xh wrote: »

Well that was posted all weird^^^

It was indeed.

To answer simply, They did answer his questions, he didn't like the answeres and kept harassing them to the point where he got abusive. They then decided to walk away rather than engage with someone who was obviously just looking for a reaction from them.

For all we know he has been there for an hour doing the same thing or harassed them on a different street, fair play to them for handling the idiot so well.

3xh

3xh wrote: »

>I’m not in the U.K.
However, it’s unfair to say I can’t be worried then. Or have an opinion on this free test initiative.
There’s a test centre in Heathrow. I’m there fairly often. It’s always empty. I mean empty. Not even a car, have I seen going through. There’s a test site in Milton Keynes on YouTube at the moment. Yes, yes, YouTube. I get it. But what transpired isn’t staged. The place was empty on both days it was recorded except for a couple of cars passing through in the 30 mins covered. There are two other midlands sites recorded. Both empty. Just staff standing around. Tents empty.

Where are all these ever increasing positive test numbers coming from? Bear in mind even if you’ve a 10% positivity rate, you’ve to multiple the number of cases by 10. We only hear of maxed out test centres.

Leeds, Nottingham, Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle.

3xh

Yeah. All the university cities with all those young, healthy students that aren’t likely to succumb to this, positive and sent to their dorms. Coughing and feverish. Yeah right.

I see just under 14000 positives in the past day. 87 deaths (with Covid within 28 days of first testing positive. What a weird, random metric to use)

stargazer 68

UK now moving to a 3 tier system. Liverpool area has been put on level 3 with bars and shops closing from what I can see.

A Dub in Glasgo

Vast swathes of Scotland are already in effective Level 3 since Friday 18.00 with licenced premises all closed

theteal

Essex looking to go Level 2. I've just seen a video of Basildon Council leader delivering the news. The Novids are having a meltdown.

theological

theteal wrote: »

Essex looking to go Level 2. I've just seen a video of Basildon Council leader delivering the news. The Novids are having a meltdown.

It seems like everybody is shouting to move level including the Mayor or London. I'm increasingly comfortable with having a circuit breaker lockdown for 3 weeks at this stage. I'm pretty sure that if we don't do one now we will need something more drastic later.

RobMc59

Rather bizarrely,filming of the new batman film is still going on here in liverpool.I was coming home from work this morning and the area near St George's hall was very busy..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/newsbeat-54528518

RobMc59

My granddaughter is in secondary school and there have been at least six positive cases which is being managed within supposedly strict guidelines but outside of messages from the school this information doesn't appear widely reported.I've heard from family the same thing is happening in many other schools locally.

tobefrank321

Other than maybe slow hospitalisations for a bit, a 3 week lockdown will achieve little. It won't significantly reduce infections and may even be counterproductive in that it still leaves a large number of susceptible people after.

Joe_ Public

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Other than maybe slow hospitalisations for a bit, a 3 week lockdown will achieve little. It won't significantly reduce infections and may even be counterproductive in that it still leaves a large number of susceptible people after.

If effective, it would reduce cases and hospital admissions and take the pressure off the health system so other illnesses can continue to be treated and lives saved. But long term, without a serious effort to fix the test and trace system, the benefits will be questionable alright.

robinph

A two or three week lockdown so that "something" can be sorted when they haven't managed to figure out what that "something" even is, let alone create it during the last 8 months is totally pointless.

It would push the peak back a bit, but that just then means you have a peak around Christmas instead of November, and I don't see how that helps anything.

S.M.B.

No surprise, sh*t that it's come to this, I don't fully agree with the full set of restrictions, failure to control this over the past few months was always going to result in this on/off lockdown approach which is a giant clusterf*ck for all, no indication of what's going to be done to remedy the situation during these lockdowns beyond 'resetting the situation back to an acceptable amount' which is exactly what concerned me as restrictions were lifted earlier this year.

theteal

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54551596

Tally-ho, I'm off to stock up on bog roll and baked beans

S.M.B.

S.M.B. wrote: »

No surprise, sh*t that it's come to this, I don't fully agree with the full set of restrictions, failure to control this over the past few months was always going to result in this on/off lockdown approach which is a giant clusterf*ck for all, no indication of what's going to be done to remedy the situation during these lockdowns beyond 'resetting the situation back to an acceptable amount' which is exactly what concerned me as restrictions were lifted earlier this year.

What can be done though?

People need to stop mixing and spreading the disease.

This is the new normal until a vaccine is found.

robinph

The map part way down this page of charts that highlights Hot Spots and On The Rise, shows that the local lockdowns are working.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/14/covid-cases-and-deaths-today-coronavirus-uk-map

Cases are reducing in the areas in the north east/ west. They are still very high, but when you switch to the On The Rise view shows the increase in cases numbers are coming down.

S.M.B.

Aegir wrote: »

What can be done though?

Reduce cases to a number that can be managed via an operational, robust, fully functional test, trace and isolate system before lifting restrictions.

Stronger public health guidance and operating in a trusting/transparent nature.

Reduce or eliminate risk of importing cases by imposing strict border measures.

serfboard

theteal wrote: »

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54551596

Reading that got me onto this. It seems bizzare to me that under the highest level restrictions in England, pubs serving food are still allowed to stay open. But, as Parody Boris Johnson says

Joe_ Public

Fair to say, i think, that some are having a better pandemic than others.

https://twitter.com/L__Macfarlane/status/1317030663657345024?s=20

Joe_ Public

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Fair to say, i think, that some are having a better pandemic than others.

https://twitter.com/L__Macfarlane/status/1317030663657345024?s=20

heaven forbid someone should make a profit.

Joe_ Public

Latest figures just over 60% of contacts being traced...worst since scheme was implemented....thousands of tests going astray...admission from sage that system has failed. Consultants from deloitte and other firms making up to 7k per day...deloitte increasing profits by trying to sell data and systems to strapped for cash local councils.

But, hey, british businesses are making money from failure. Let's celebrate that instead.

Joe_ Public

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Latest figures just over 60% of contacts being traced...worst since scheme was implemented....thousands of tests going astray...admission from sage that system has failed. Consultants from deloitte and other firms making up to 7k per day...deloitte increasing profits by trying to sell data and systems to strapped for cash local councils.

But, hey, british businesses are making money from failure. Let's celebrate that instead.

this is just tabloid stuff. Lots of companies are making money out of coronavirus. How much do you think Roche and Amazon have made out of this?

No one is celebrating, just being realistic that the massive spike in infections across europe has put test and trace under pressure everywhere.

Joe_ Public

Aegir wrote: »

this is just tabloid stuff. Lots of companies are making money out of coronavirus. How much do you think Roche and Amazon have made out of this?

No one is celebrating, just being realistic that the massive spike in infections across europe has put test and trace under pressure everywhere.

I despise Amazon but what has it got to do with anything? How many covid contracts did it get? Frontline health workers, many of them paid less than the minimum living wage, have, by common consent, done a fantastic job and pretty much just got clapped for their efforts while reps from the private sector are creaming off a grotesque £7k a day with nothing much but failure and incompetence to show for it. Everywhere is under pressure and facing problems, how many spaffed so many billions out to the private sector with so little to show for it in return?

Joe_ Public

By the way, my particular beef wouldn't really be with Serco which after all is just doing what it was born to do, make profit and if those fine etonian chaps at the head of government are willing to facilitate that, then it would be simply rude to say no, old boy.

And the plan, as spelt out by Rupert is going quite swimmingly you'd have to admit.

https://twitter.com/minoritybeef/status/1296428143243395075?s=20

Joe_ Public

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I despise Amazon but what has it got to do with anything? How many covid contracts did it get? Frontline health workers, many of them paid less than the minimum living wage, have, by common consent, done a fantastic job and pretty much just got clapped for their efforts while reps from the private sector are creaming off a grotesque £7k a day with nothing much but failure and incompetence to show for it. Everywhere is under pressure and facing problems, how many spaffed so many billions out to the private sector with so little to show for it in return?

you'll have to give more detail on that £7k per day. The only day rates anywhere near that I have experienced are for actuaries and I would be surprised if there are any actuaries involved in this.

anyway, what is your solution? to not do contact tracing?

Maybe they should have given it to me, I would have done it for £1m less and I have no relations in any political party.

But then, I don't have the ability to recruit and train 10,000 people in the middle of a pandemic, nor would many companies for that matter. least of all the NHS.

Joe_ Public

Aegir wrote: »

you'll have to give more detail on that £7k per day. The only day rates anywhere near that I have experienced are for actuaries and I would be surprised if there are any actuaries involved in this.

anyway, what is your solution? to not do contact tracing?

Maybe they should have given it to me, I would have done it for £1m less and I have no relations in any political party.

But then, I don't have the ability to recruit and train 10,000 people in the middle of a pandemic, nor would many companies for that matter. least of all the NHS.

Ed Conway had the story on sky a few days ago. It was discussed in parliament. Consultants are creaming off daily rates between 2 and 7k and there is widespread anger and revulsion over it. Nurses and other frontline workers are still protesting for a payrise.

The damage is done in all this. The choice facing the government 7-8 months ago was clear and they chose to sideline NHS labs and local councils in order to splurge £12bn or so on private investors and that's brought them to where they are.

Me personally? I'd say sack Harding and Hancock now, just for starters. And serco out. But pointless because none of this will happen. And fair play to syerco. They got all those contracts, and then got them extended, without even any performance or contractual penalty clauses in them. You never look a gift horse in the mouth and all that.

bob mcbob

Aegir wrote: »

you'll have to give more detail on that £7k per day. The only day rates anywhere near that I have experienced are for actuaries and I would be surprised if there are any actuaries involved in this.

anyway, what is your solution? to not do contact tracing?

Maybe they should have given it to me, I would have done it for £1m less and I have no relations in any political party.

But then, I don't have the ability to recruit and train 10,000 people in the middle of a pandemic, nor would many companies for that matter. least of all the NHS.

According to documents seen by Sky News, some consulting executives operating the government’s Test and Trace system are being paid a rate of £7,360 per day – equivalent to more than 1.7 million a year in taxpayer money.


https://ukinvestormagazine.co.uk/test-and-trace-consultants-paid-7k-per-day-in-public-funds/

This for a service that is having "marginal impact"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8832919/Sage-experts-say-Test-Trace-having-marginal-impact-tackling-virus.html

Joe_ Public

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Ed Conway had the story on sky a few days ago. It was discussed in parliament. Consultants are creaming off daily rates between 2 and 7k and there is widespread anger and revulsion over it. Nurses and other frontline workers are still protesting for a payrise.

and this is why I call it tabloid stuff. it is headline figures for the uneducated to get excited about. There is a reason the likes of BCG and Deloitte can charge these amounts (and they do regularly) and that is because their consultants are a ready built project team, usually with a small army in Bangalore or Manilla able to pick up and run with projects very quickly and involving little or no inut from the customer.

Joe_ Public wrote: »

The damage is done in all this. The choice facing the government 7-8 months ago was clear and they chose to sideline NHS labs and local councils in order to splurge £12bn or so on private investors and that's brought them to where they are.

Me personally? I'd say sack Harding and Hancock now, just for starters. And serco out. But pointless because none of this will happen. And fair play to syerco. They got all those contracts, and then got them extended, without even any performance or contractual penalty clauses in them. You never look a gift horse in the mouth and all that.

OK, so the government decided to increase the NHS lab capacity from what it was doing to over quarter of a million tests per day.

How would you have done this?

The local teams that were already inplace need to be able to do twenty times more than they currently do, how would you have increased their capacity to do this?

Where would all these people have come from? who would have employed them and what would you do with them when this is over?

How many local health authorities would be able to onboard hundreds of people in the middle of a pandemic, when their HR teams are probably working from home.

Where woud they have pt them and what would they have done if the ones employed in Devon were sat idle but the ones in Manchester swamped? Would you have employed more people in manchester?

S.M.B.

One thing that often gets lost in this £7k a day debacle is that this is what the Government is being charged for services and not what the contractor is walking away with in their back pocket every day.

I'm still in the 'why the hell did the government go down this hyper centralised/privatised' path but I think claims like 'Consultants from deloitte and other firms making up to 7k per day' can be being debunked fairly quickly.

edit: not lost by aegir as he got here before me

Joe_ Public

Aegir wrote: »

and this is why I call it tabloid stuff. it is headline figures for the uneducated to get excited about. There is a reason the likes of BCG and Deloitte can charge these amounts (and they do regularly) and that is because their consultants are a ready built project team, usually with a small army in Bangalore or Manilla able to pick up and run with projects very quickly and involving little or no inut from the customer.




OK, so the government decided to increase the NHS lab capacity from what it was doing to over quarter of a million tests per day.

How would you have done this?

The local teams that were already inplace need to be able to do twenty times more than they currently do, how would you have increased their capacity to do this?

Where would all these people have come from? who would have employed them and what would you do with them when this is over?

How many local health authorities would be able to onboard hundreds of people in the middle of a pandemic, when their HR teams are probably working from home.

Where woud they have pt them and what would they have done if the ones employed in Devon were sat idle but the ones in Manchester swamped? Would you have employed more people in manchester?

Yeah, lads in suits are picking off thousands a day for "consultancy" for bungled operations while health care workers saving actual lives are living close to the bread line. Tabloid stuff, right.

Here's the £12bn question. You have a network of labs, staffed by people who have been involved in testing and tracing for years, with the facility to turn tests around in a number of hours. So faced with the need to expand, instead of using that for a solid base on which to build and develop a wider network, they turn to private investors, many with no or little experience in the field, and furnish them with billions to do it from scratch instead.

Local health authorities and councils were pleading to be helped and invested in from the beginning. It would have cost a fraction of the price and, however effective, it could not have been worse than it turned out. And nobody is saying private help wouldn't have been welcome in the circumstances but the local bodies, with the best knowledge of their areas, would have taken the lead.

Of course, doing all this would have meant properly empowering local councils to be able to assist regional health authorities, but as we know, tory governments have big issues sharing money with local councils, particularly labour ones. So maybe that was always a non starter.

Thus: loads of readies for serco and deloitte and their buddies. Deloitte wouldn't even share the data with the local authorities because it wasn't in their contract to do so. Now they are trying to make more money by getting the councils to pay for their services. Profit and more profit all the way.