The UK response - Part II - read OP

lainey_d_123

theological wrote: »

Sure I've mentioned on other threads but [URL=hehttps://www.ft.com/content/2782655a-0441-4d38-bb03-5c4e67ead110]the FT published an article yesterday[/URL] that said that 80% of active coronavirus cases in the UK originate from a coronavirus strain from Spain brought by returning travellers in the summer.

And do you think if nobody had gone to Spain that there would be 80% less cases? Or would another strain simply be more dominant?

Spain was not on the travel corridor list for the vast majority of the summer, so if there was widespread transmission based on travel from there, it shows that people weren't quarantining. And why would they have? Nobody was checking.

Even more reason to stop the quarantine farce, which is only hurting careful, responsible people who just want to see family and friends.

theological

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

And do you think if nobody had gone to Spain that there would be 80% less cases? Or would another strain simply be more dominant?

If travel was restricted, the level of coronavirus cases would be much much lower. We wouldn't be on the verge of a second lockdown right now.

Re-opening society at the same time as re-opening travel was a bad decision. It is either one or the other. Stop importations of new cases entering society, or deny the new importations the opportunity to spread through lockdown easing.

We can't have both. South East Asia learned that. Europe didn't. Look to Taiwan. Stopped travel, but people are pretty much interacting as usual.

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Even more reason to stop the quarantine farce, which is only hurting careful, responsible people who just want to see family and friends.

The virus doesn't care about who you are visiting. It just needs an opportunity to spread.

S.M.B.

Interesting article, glad they are analysing the strains to get vital data like that although now e are reliant on the the powers that be making informed decisions.

RE: your Asia comment. Travel restrictions is just one of a few key preventive measures in place there and in plenty of other places. I've been saying this whenever anyone in this thread goes down the "But what more can the government do?" line of questioning.

theological

S.M.B. wrote: »

Interesting article, glad they are analysing the strains to get vital data like that although now e are reliant on the the powers that be making informed decisions.

RE: your Asia comment. Travel restrictions is just one of a few key preventive measures in place there and in plenty of other places. I've been saying this whenever anyone in this thread goes down the "But what more can the government do?" line of questioning.

Stopping new flows of the virus entering in is key when you're trying to control it internally.

I agree that there are other things that you need to do to stop it spreading internally but if you're going to open the borders wide open there's no point really.

bob mcbob

theological wrote: »

Stopping new flows of the virus entering in is key when you're trying to control it internally.

I agree that there are other things that you need to do to stop it spreading internally but if you're going to open the borders wide open there's no point really.

I agree with you on travel, it was a stupid idea.

However, Sage warned a month ago that a 2 week circuit breaker would be needed over half term to control the virus. So it was known then that it was spreading quickly. This advice was ignored and now you are looking at a 4, 6, ? week lockdown.

It seems that Boris is unable to react until there is no option.

cmac2009

Press conference at 4pm today, Boris along with CMO/CSO. A lot of criticism re the leaks about the potential lockdown has probably forced their hand into announcing it today.

nacho libre

So Boris' juggling act has failed. That's what happens when the Tory Donors hold sway over the key decisions. There are rumours Boris is keen to pack it all in next year.

devnull

bob mcbob wrote: »

However, Sage warned a month ago that a 2 week circuit breaker would be needed over half term to control the virus. So it was known then that it was spreading quickly. This advice was ignored and now you are looking at a 4, 6, ? week lockdown.

Press conference moved to 5pm.

It seems that the Tory party are now suffering from a severe case of amnesia:
https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1322501205629743105

A truly breathtaking bunch of politicians that the UK has at the moment. If they did something wrong or an action in the past they did now looks like it was a bad decision, just try and re-write history.

Harry Palmr

The national address is not happening before 6 PM as things stand. Clearly a massive amount of argument and panic going on in Whitehall and No 10..and the BBC are now stuck with time filling.

Irish Steve

Press conference is now delayed to "around" 5:30, but that might slip to later.

The cynic in me says that Dominic is trying to get out of town before the fertiliser hits the fan, the more likely reality is that BoJo has a huge rebellion on his hands, and is having to fight to make it happen at all, it has now "slipped out" that they were not planning to announce anything until Monday, but there's been a significant leak that has forced their hand.

From the sound of the comments on Sky, it's pretty much the same plan as is happening here, so it will be interesting to see if NI follows along with it, or if they try to continue to do their own thing

Thierry12

Sky saying 7pm now lol

Must be madness inside

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54763956

Boris announces a 4 week nationwide lockdown similar to ours. Schools and colleges to remain open.

Seems to be a spike in over 60 infections. Will it make any difference? Will the Brits abide by the rules?

The times, they sure are achanging.

Call me Al

So it's being reported that details of the UK vaccine strategy were hawked by the chair of the vaccine task force for a £200 a head event for US venture capitalists last week.
How this could ever be considered appropriate is beyond me, but it's like much of what i see happening with the UK covid response.

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1322646591010971649?s=20

ancapailldorcha

It's a f*cking joke. They've been bungling it from day one and they're still completely beholden to Cummings, a man nobody in this country voted for. I don't know what they were thinking when they came up with the silly Tier system either.

igCorcaigh

Insane. Now, under pressure, they announce new measures. From Thursday.

No rush lads!

igCorcaigh

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54763956

Boris announces a 4 week nationwide lockdown similar to ours. Schools and colleges to remain open.

Seems to be a spike in over 60 infections. Will it make any difference? Will the Brits abide by the rules?

The times, they sure are achanging.

They left it too late. Lots of people will die because of their inaction.

Clonmel1000

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's a f*cking joke. They've been bungling it from day one and they're still completely beholden to Cummings, a man nobody in this country voted for. I don't know what they were thinking when they came up with the silly Tier system either.

Kinda remind you of Holohan and the silly 5 levels in Ireland too.

Why like so many countries are schools still opened if everything is locked down? In Vietnam, the first thing to close was schools. That happened at the end of January. It makes no sense to me to wreck economies while letting it spread so freely in schools.

beggars_bush

Deleted User wrote: »

Why like so many countries are schools still opened if everything is locked down? In Vietnam, the first thing to close was schools. That happened at the end of January. It makes no sense to me to wreck economies while letting it spread so freely in schools.

Its childcare

Plus, schools feed an awful lot of school kids in England

Richard Hillman

So they are basically going down our route, despite the fact that it transpired we didn't have to do it at all

S.M.B.

Call me Al wrote: »

So it's being reported that details of the UK vaccine strategy were hawked by the chair of the vaccine task force for a £200 a head event for US venture capitalists last week.
How this could ever be considered appropriate is beyond me, but it's like much of what i see happening with the UK covid response.

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1322646591010971649?s=20

Hard to know if this is sheer stupidity or just brazenly acting in one's self interest. Based on the calibre of hires in some of these crucial positions it's really difficult to know.

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

Why like so many countries are schools still opened if everything is locked down? In Vietnam, the first thing to close was schools. That happened at the end of January. It makes no sense to me to wreck economies while letting it spread so freely in schools.

They're too craven to confront parents here. Much more expedient to avoid conflict there altogether.

theological

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

They're too craven to confront parents here. Much more expedient to avoid conflict there altogether.

There's also the fact that school children are less susceptible to the disease than adults. Disrupting education for this would be more destructive than it is worth.

Nothing to do with the dastardly Tories. I totally agree by the way that more should have been done in the summer. In fact if more was done to stop the re-importation of the virus we wouldn't need this lockdown at all.

S.M.B.

Month long lockdown should have coincided with mid term as many experts suggested. Another two weeks off for non vulnerable and non key worker children would not be that disruptive. Look at going back to a rota based system until numbers down and proper Test, Trace, isolate and support system in place.

Feels like we'll be under these restrictions until the week of Xmas of we are lucky.

robinph

Something had to be done, but can't see what the pretend lockdown will achieve. It will ruin all leasure and retail industry businesses and jobs, but other that that not a whole lot will be different next week from what is happening this week. People will still be going to other jobs, schools and colleges will still be open, university students will be stuck in halls.

What is this change meant to achieve? Other than university students not being tested now because they have already been done so that will make the numbers come down due to them not being tested, none of the things they are shutting down are actually responsible for much of the raise in cases.

The lockdowns happening across Europe is just because they are out of ideas and screwed up doing what they needed with tracing during the summer.

ancapailldorcha

robinph wrote: »

Something had to be done, but can't see what the pretend lockdown will achieve. It will ruin all leasure and retail industry businesses and jobs, but other that that not a whole lot will be different next week from what is happening this week. People will still be going to other jobs, schools and colleges will still be open, university students will be stuck in halls.

What is this change meant to achieve? Other than university students not being tested now because they have already been done so that will make the numbers come down due to them not being tested, none of the things they are shutting down are actually responsible for much of the raise in cases.

The lockdowns happening across Europe is just because they are out of ideas and screwed up doing what they needed with tracing during the summer.

SAGE told them to lockdown sooner. Wales implemented a 2-week circuitbreaker lockdown and all the Tories did was preen about how awful the Welsh Labour government is. Going forward, the best indication of what's to come would be to look at Wales.

The British people have elected a campaigning group to govern. It's pathetic that the Tories don't understand the difference.

robinph

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

SAGE told them to lockdown sooner. Wales implemented a 2-week circuitbreaker lockdown and all the Tories did was preen about how awful the Welsh Labour government is. Going forward, the best indication of what's to come would be to look at Wales.

The British people have elected a campaigning group to govern. It's pathetic that the Tories don't understand the difference.

Is there anything to show that Welsh numbers are reducing? Are they changing at a different rate than any other areas in n England?

North East England has got numbers slowing after a long time in virtually the same restrictions which come in for the whole country next week, but at the same time numbers in the South West are also slowing without having done anything other than tier 1 restrictions. Also there has been no limits to people travelling between the high areas in South Wales across the bridges to the south west (half the staff at my kids school seem to live in Wales).

Just not convinced that these actions are actually doing anything. The initial lockdown was a massive change in behaviour and people didn't actually go anywhere or have any jobs, shops or schools to go to. The new versions of lockdown are not the same level of restriction and they are absolutely not any significant change to behaviour compared to what we were doing last month. Don't see that there is evidence of these restrictions having any material changes to the virus.

If anything the virus is just doing what it's going to do regardless, and other than actually totally banning leaving home and testing 100% of the population closing one type of shop or leisure activity isn't doing anything but put people out of work.

Seth Brundle

Richard Hillman wrote: »

So they are basically going down our route, despite the fact that it transpired we didn't have to do it at all

What has transpired here to indicate it was unnecessary?

kravmaga

I think this will be an interesting current affairs TV documentary worth watching on Monday at 8pm on Channel 4.

The impact of covid and the issues it is bringing financially to the working population.

The same issues we face here in Ireland.

https://twitter.com/C4Dispatches/status/1322863973188984834

bob mcbob

robinph wrote: »

Is there anything to show that Welsh numbers are reducing? Are they changing at a different rate than any other areas in n England?

North East England has got numbers slowing after a long time in virtually the same restrictions which come in for the whole country next week, but at the same time numbers in the South West are also slowing without having done anything other than tier 1 restrictions. Also there has been no limits to people travelling between the high areas in South Wales across the bridges to the south west (half the staff at my kids school seem to live in Wales).

Just not convinced that these actions are actually doing anything. The initial lockdown was a massive change in behaviour and people didn't actually go anywhere or have any jobs, shops or schools to go to. The new versions of lockdown are not the same level of restriction and they are absolutely not any significant change to behaviour compared to what we were doing last month. Don't see that there is evidence of these restrictions having any material changes to the virus.

If anything the virus is just doing what it's going to do regardless, and other than actually totally banning leaving home and testing 100% of the population closing one type of shop or leisure activity isn't doing anything but put people out of work.

Scotland introduced a partial lockdown on the 9th Oct for the whole of the central belt (3.4 million people). This lockdown is all pubs and restaurants shut. Cafes are allowed to open until 6. No household mixing indoors. This is the Scottish Tier 3.

The 7 days average number of infections peaked at 1450 on the 26th Oct it is currently down at 1187.