The UK response - Part II - read OP

A Dub in Glasgo

The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine does look like it is a game changer with its small dose/standard dose and logistical requirements. I would imagine it can be rolled out quicker as well

declanflynn

RobMc59 wrote: »

Just to balance up after the usual negative posts,some encouraging news regarding the UK Oxford vaccine.
https://theconversation.com/why-the-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-is-now-a-global-gamechanger-150660

were their any Irish people involved?

meeeeh

Yes.

RobMc59

declanflynn wrote: »

were their any Irish people involved?

Well actually....
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1123/1179918-oxford-vaccine-theresa-lambe/

declanflynn

declanflynn wrote: »

were their any Irish people involved?

This thread is about the UK response. There are other threads discussing what Ireland has done.

(Am I doing this right?)

declanflynn

Aegir wrote: »

This thread is about the UK response. There are other threads discussing what Ireland has done.

(Am I doing this right?)

Irish scientists working on a vaccine in Oxford are helping the uk's response so I dont see a big problem discussing them here

declanflynn

declanflynn wrote: »

Irish scientists working on a vaccine in Oxford are helping the uk's response so I dont see a big problem discussing them here

I was being facetious.

The Oxford vaccine isn’t really the UKs response, the U.K. just happens to have a leading centre of excellence in vaccine research, like several other countries. It’s not like the U.K. will only use the Oxford vaccine and Germany will only use the Pfizer one and no one will be distributing them to other countries.

declanflynn

Aegir wrote: »

I was being facetious.

The Oxford vaccine isn’t really the UKs response, the U.K. just happens to have a leading centre of excellence in vaccine research, like several other countries. It’s not like the U.K. will only use the Oxford vaccine and Germany will only use the Pfizer one and no one will be distributing them to other countries.

Whatever mate

serfboard

Another story from the UK, about what's being called Chumocracy (with lots of links from that Twitter hashtag to various stories).

The Guardian wrote:

An acquaintance and former neighbour of Matt Hancock is supplying the government with tens of millions of vials for NHS Covid-19 tests despite having had no previous experience of producing medical supplies.

Alex Bourne, who used to run a pub close to Hancock’s former constituency home in Suffolk, said he initially offered his services to the UK health secretary several months ago by sending him a personal WhatsApp message.
...
Contacted last week by the Guardian, Bourne’s lawyers flatly denied that their client had any discussions with Hancock in relation to Covid-19 supplies.

However, on Monday, after being confronted with further details about his interactions with the health secretary, Bourne backtracked. In a phone call with the Guardian, he conceded that he has in fact exchanged text and email messages with Hancock over several months.
...
A Suffolk local and friend of Bourne’s, Sukhvinder Dhat, said he had regularly seen Hancock in the pub when he lived in the village and claimed that Bourne and Hancock were “friends” and “buddies”.
...
Dhat also questioned how Bourne managed to become involved in providing medical supplies to the government given his limited business experience. Prior to running the Cock Inn, which was sold in January, Bourne set up a string of companies that did not trade and were later dissolved. Hinpack was established in July 2018, trading in disposable items for the catering industry.

“How does someone like [Bourne] get a contract to do something like this?” Dhat asked. “I was in management consulting for decades and we had to show some sort of capability or at least a client reference to get business. Who knew him to say he was an appropriate person?”

Johnson's government really has become a kleptocracy.

Hopefully Alex Bourne will sue the arse off the Guardian and they will stop this pathetic ****e.

They have become worse than the Sun these days.

ancapailldorcha

Aegir wrote: »

Hopefully Alex Bourne will sue the arse off the Guardian and they will stop this pathetic ****e.

They have become worse than the Sun these days.

You have evidence that it's fabricated or are snarky comments all you have to add?

BonnieSituation

Aegir wrote: »

Hopefully Alex Bourne will sue the arse off the Guardian and they will stop this pathetic ****e.

They have become worse than the Sun these days.

I wouldn't say Bourne's identity is an issue here.

But I also doubt your Ultimatum to the Guardian is of any value either.

Their Supremacy as the left-wing lightning-rod for yourself will remain!

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You have evidence that it's fabricated or are snarky comments all you have to add?

Did you read the article?

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I wouldn't say Bourne's identity is an issue here.

But I also doubt your Ultimatum to the Guardian is of any value either.

Their Supremacy as the left-wing lightning-rod for yourself will remain!

You mean their supremacy in getting the uneducated to become outraged.

ancapailldorcha

Aegir wrote: »

Did you read the article?

What's the issue? Where's the libel?

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

What's the issue? Where's the libel?

Well for starters it blatantly implies there is some wrong doing here, not to mention a deliberate attempt to distort facts.

ancapailldorcha

Aegir wrote: »

Well for starters it blatantly implies there is some wrong doing here, not to mention a deliberate attempt to distort facts.

Can you back this up? Show me the delibate attempt please.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Can you back this up? Show me the delibate attempt please.

so there is no suggestion there is anything wrong?

so this is a non story then?

I would say the headline "Hancock's former neighbour won Covid test kit work after WhatsApp message" is a deliberate attempt at that, wouldn't you?

ancapailldorcha

Aegir wrote: »

so there is no suggestion there is anything wrong?

so this is a non story then?

I would say the headline "Hancock's former neighbour won Covid test kit work after WhatsApp message" is a deliberate attempt at that, wouldn't you?

You have nothing then so beyond your usual attempts to shut down criticism of governmental corruption and cronyism.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You have nothing then so beyond your usual attempts to shut down criticism of governmental corruption and cronyism.

so are you saying there is something wrong?

ancapailldorcha

Aegir wrote: »

so are you saying there is something wrong?

Yes. The blantant cronyism described in the article.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Yes. The blantant cronyism described in the article.

So they are claiming there is some form of wrong doing then.

I hope the Guardian are either sued or forced to issue some form of any apology.

quick question, how many companies do you think there are in europe that make plastic vials and how many do you think are sat around doing nothing at the moment?

The UK is doing over 2,000,000 tests per week, as is France and Germany and I doubt these are reusable.

do the math, as the Americans would say (who are currently doing over 1,500,000 tests per day)

Joe_ Public

Whatever its merits or demerits, it's patently absurd to refer to the guardian readership as "uneducated." Whatever else they are, that's demonstrably the one thing they are not.

And the most absurd part of that story is the bit where because they don't have the facilities to produce the goods themselves, they approach a bouncy castle company to make them an environment that was "comparatively contamination free." That comparatively is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting there.

ancapailldorcha

How many companies successfully procure tenders via WhatsApp?

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

How many companies successfully procure tenders via WhatsApp?

Please, read the article fully.

S.M.B.

I read the article earlier and I thought the Guardian were making quite the leap. We'll probably never know exactly how some of these contracts were awarded but I'm pretty sure a What'sApp message isn't the smoking gun they are making it out to be either.

Enzokk

Aegir wrote: »

Hopefully Alex Bourne will sue the arse off the Guardian and they will stop this pathetic ****e.

They have become worse than the Sun these days.

Was he a former neighbour of Hancock and did he frequent their pub? Did he WhatsApp him personally to offer their help and did they get a contract from the HSE?

That is what the Guardian has stated. If you have evidence that this is not true, by all means the floor is yours here or you can send information to other newspapers or the BBC. I am sure they will be interested in what you have to give them to refute this story.

Aegir wrote: »

So they are claiming there is some form of wrong doing then.

I hope the Guardian are either sued or forced to issue some form of any apology.

quick question, how many companies do you think there are in europe that make plastic vials and how many do you think are sat around doing nothing at the moment?

The UK is doing over 2,000,000 tests per week, as is France and Germany and I doubt these are reusable.

do the math, as the Americans would say (who are currently doing over 1,500,000 tests per day)

Quick question, what made their company unique to get this contract? They were making plastic cups and takeaway boxes before, so what is unique about their business that meant they were able to successfully win the bid for a contract for medical vials.

What we do know it was not their experience in making medical equipment unless hearts are transported in takeaway boxes and blood in plastic cups for transfusion.


In other news it seems like the Oxford vaccine will be going for more trials as the claim of 90% efficiency seems to good to be true by accident. I hope this vaccine passes all scrutiny as the others will be prohibitively expensive for most of the world so having a alternative that is cheaper and still as effective will be good for everyone.

Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine to undergo new global trial

The Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccine will undergo a new global trial as critics questioned the claim that it could protect up to 90% of people against coronavirus.

On Thursday Sir John Bell, Oxford’s regius professor of medicine and the UK government’s life sciences adviser, dismissed suggestions the previous trial had not been properly set up or reported. “We weren’t cooking this up as we went along,” he said, adding that he hoped the full, peer-reviewed data would be published in the Lancet medical journal at the weekend.

In spite of the public excitement generated by the announcement that a third vaccine had been successful – with particular promise for developing countries as it is relatively cheap and can be stored at fridge temperature – AstraZeneca’s share price dropped.

One analyst in the US wrote in an investor note that “we believe that this product will never be licensed in the US” and alleged the company had tried to “embellish” the results.

bob mcbob

Aegir wrote: »

so are you saying there is something wrong?

Just to even things up - here is some criticism of the Government for cronyism (what is the line between cronyism and corruption) from some real lefty titles like

the Daily Mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8959887/DAVID-ROSE-Report-revealing-18bn-coronavirus-PPE-farce-cynical-brazen-cronyism.html

the Telegraph
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/10/13/covid-procurement-falls-victim-whiff-cronyism/

The Times
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/political-cronies-given-fast-track-to-ppe-contracts-worth-billions-r7jmtxhfm

Joe_ Public

bob mcbob wrote: »

Just to even things up - here is some criticism of the Government for cronyism (what is the line between cronyism and corruption) from some real lefty titles like

the Daily Mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8959887/DAVID-ROSE-Report-revealing-18bn-coronavirus-PPE-farce-cynical-brazen-cronyism.html

the Telegraph
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/10/13/covid-procurement-falls-victim-whiff-cronyism/

The Times
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/political-cronies-given-fast-track-to-ppe-contracts-worth-billions-r7jmtxhfm

I think the rule is that stories are valid if they appear in those titles which still cater for educated readers but once the guardian covers it, it automatically becomes invalid, mere fodder for the ignorant dumbed down hoi polloi masses who gobble up their tabloid nonsense as most of them seem never to have attended school or further education and thus haven't developed the critical faculties to see through it. Open to clarification, but i think that's how it works anyway.

Enzokk

Enzokk wrote: »

Was he a former neighbour of Hancock and did he frequent their pub? Did he WhatsApp him personally to offer their help and did they get a contract from the HSE?

That is what the Guardian has stated. If you have evidence that this is not true, by all means the floor is yours here or you can send information to other newspapers or the BBC. I am sure they will be interested in what you have to give them to refute this story.

The Guardian are portraying this as the call to Hancock is what got him the contract. there is no evidence of this but they are blatantly trying to make out that this is the reason why.

He rang Hancock to enquire as to wheher or not his plastic moulding equipment could be retooled to make PPE. Hundreds of companies across the UK (and indeed europe) were doing the same thing.

Subsequent to that, an independent company approached him to see if he could make plastic vials. This is a company sourcing a manufacturer of a product they wish to sell and has zero connection to the Government

Enzokk wrote: »

Quick question, what made their company unique to get this contract? They were making plastic cups and takeaway boxes before, so what is unique about their business that meant they were able to successfully win the bid for a contract for medical vials.

What we do know it was not their experience in making medical equipment unless hearts are transported in takeaway boxes and blood in plastic cups for transfusion.

that isn't what he is making though. He is producing vials, from what I believe, are the plastic tubes that each swab is placed in to. So if there is only one used per test, the UK is burning through 350,000 of these per day.

t is highly unlikely Mr Bourne has got a sole source contract for this. It could well be that he isn't even the sole source to the company that has the actual contract with the NHS, it is further unlikely that this company has a sole contract with the NHS. So no, he isn't unique, he is just one of a number of different companies producing these. The others probably didn't have a pub in the same constituency (and a neighbour with a monumental level of begrudgery) so the Guardian don't care.

He produces food grade plastic products. The step up from that to producing medical vials probably isn't that big a leap. the machine to make them and the grade of plastic are most likely the exact same, it is just the conditions in which they are manufactured that would change. It looks like he sought professional advice on this and adapted his manufacturing process accordingly.

Alpha Laboratories are the company with the NHS contract, it is encumbent on them to make sure the products they sell are to the correct spec.

If Bourne hadn't contacted Hancock to see if he could make PPE, then this would never have made it anywhere near the papers.