The UK response - Part II - read OP

ancapailldorcha

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

That's not really the point though, is it?

Why are people quibbling about if it's actually illegal or not, instead of worrying about potentially killing their parents? These measures have come into force as a result of information that this new variant of covid is spreading like wildfire. Boris would not have brought in these restrictions unless he absolutely had to because he now looks like a prize t1t after promising all year that he would 'save Christmas'. It's not as if it's some silly pointless rule - there is a very real danger that anyone residing in a tier 4 area could have or pick up covid and then infect people in Ireland. Is it really worth it, when the vaccine is now just weeks away for elderly people?

I really don't understand people.

It just seems senseless to have the flights going if that's the case and, to be fair it has been the case for most of this year that a visit home risks relatives' health. All that's changed today is the probability.

If the flights need to operate for freight or other reasons, fine. Just would be nice to have some clarification.

j4vier wrote: »

Due to fly to London Heathrow on the 23 and returning back on the 29.

Won't be doing that after today's restrictions.

Will Aer lingus refund me the whole booking does anyone know? It was a saver booking fee so in theory not eligible for a refund but then again, I'm not going because of the government guidelines, not because i changed my mind.

I was to head over on the 23rd from Heathrow. You should be able to claim a refund, no bother. There's a prominent cancel option in the "Manage my booking" page.

I can't see myself heading over now to be honest.

PommieBast

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Why are people quibbling about if it's actually illegal or not, instead of worrying about potentially killing their parents?

Proportionality. I've already spent most of the last six months living with my parents, and have had zero social contacts while back in Dublin, so it is unlikley my trip will kill them. Meanwhile there is only so long I can put off other stuff.

PommieBast

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Would I be breaking the law if I headed home? I genuinely don't know if flights aren't cancelled.

Travel advice being non-binding was a corner-stone of the Irish government's defence when RyanAir sued them, and as a result have dug themselves into a hole. I think the only thing that has been put onto a statutory basis is organising of gatherings.


The UK government in contrast has been quite diligent in putting things on a statutory basis.

A Dub in Glasgo

With my Dad in Dublin aged 76 in April and undergoing chemo over the last 8 years for Leukemia and a 73 year old mother, there was no chance I was travelling back to visit this Christmas. I will wait until later in the year

Scuid Mhór

Fair play to Boris and Co. for taking the unpopular but morally correct course of action. Unfortunately, history has shown that the populace at large don't always react kindly to such actions.

PommieBast

PommieBast wrote: »

I'm flying to Heathrow tomorrow and don't expect any trouble. It is getting back after xmas that concerns me..

Fly in to Heathrow at your peril. Make sure you get tested prior to return or upon landing back in Dub. All good then.

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1340465651962540033

It's often overlooked the price countries can pay for failing to maintain a stable situation in relation to the virus. The Netherlands won't be the only ones banning flights from the UK.

PommieBast

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's often overlooked the price countries can pay for failing to maintain a stable situation in relation to the virus. The Netherlands won't be the only ones banning flights from the UK.

There was a bit in the FT (paywall unfortunately) not that long ago that pretty much said this. Most EU countries, and some EFTA ones such as Norway, are not going to let non-resident UK citizens in after 1st Jan.

Kermit.de.frog

PommieBast wrote: »

There was a bit in the FT (paywall unfortunately) not that long ago that pretty much said this. Most EU countries, and some EFTA ones such as Norway, are not going to let non-resident UK citizens in after 1st Jan.

Which is possibly why the Dutch say January 1st at the latest - because presumably the rest of us will be rolling in behind at that stage anyway

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1340466718964117504

PommieBast

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Which is possibly why the Dutch say January 1st at the latest - because presumably the rest of us will be rolling in behind at that stage anyway

I read some of the comments about whether "latest" was a mistake or not.


Trouble Ireland has is that it does not have anything approximating proof of residency that can be presented to immigration.

Necro

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't feel so bad about cheekily nipping to and fro across the border now.

Would I be breaking the law if I headed home? I genuinely don't know if flights aren't cancelled.

Will let you know later today, waiting on word from the sis, she's going to airport anyways to see what happens (Luton)

gutenberg

noelfirl wrote: »

It's classic Boris & co/UK governance in general. I'm certain he said a definitive 'must not' or 'can not' travel during the live press conference earlier, but the online guidance says this:



https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tier-4-stay-at-home

That suggests it's not definitively bounded in any sort of law/regulation.

The Foreign Office guidance says those in Tier 4 areas ‘will not be permitted to travel abroad apart from limited exceptions’. That’s stronger than the government website. The way I understood it, was no foreign travel from Tier 4, and everywhere else ideally shouldn’t. I don’t know if airlines will have to cancel things on account of that though.

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice

O'Neill

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

Fair play to Boris and Co. for taking the unpopular but morally correct course of action. Unfortunately, history has shown that the populace at large don't always react kindly to such actions.

Sorry but don't agree at all! They should never have eased things before Christmas. He has done a u-turn 5 days before Christmas and because of that, there are images of crowds of people in St Pancreas station in London for example looking to get home.

Now of course, everyone has a personal responsibility ect.. but what on earth were they expecting! An absolute shambles.

j4vier

Strange that the aer lingus flight to heathrow went ahead as planned this morning based on the tracker and all other flights for today and tomorrow look also to be on track.

Are they just ignoring the uk government advice?

Or is it just to get people to tiers 1-3 areas?

S.M.B.

This is really bad timing, not from a "Christmas is cancelled" perspective which I was initially upset about (all I wanted was my wife and son to see her sister who lives a few miles away, the idea of travelling back to Ireland was off the cards long ago) but from a wee now have a more contagious mutation, a large cohort of people unwilling to change their plans as a result of the news and no proper processes in place on this side of the world to properly manage our borders which should have been put in place months ago.

I'm not annoyed with Boris' announcement yesterday, it was the obvious thing to do. I'm pissed that everyone decided to pat themselves on the back towards the end of the summer when these endless lockdown cycles were predicted.

j4vier

S.M.B. wrote: »

This is really bad timing, not from a "Christmas is cancelled" perspective which I was initially upset about (all I wanted was my wife and son to see her sister who lives a few miles away, the idea of travelling back to Ireland was off the cards long ago) but from a wee now have a more contagious mutation, a large cohort of people unwilling to change their plans as a result of the news and no proper processes in place on this side of the world to properly manage our borders which should have been put in place months ago.

I'm not annoyed with Boris' announcement yesterday, it was the obvious thing to do. I'm pissed that everyone decided to pat themselves on the back towards the end of the summer when these endless lockdown cycles were predicted.

I am more annoyed that if they really wanted people to have a more normal Christmas, they should have had restrictions in the current days prior to Christmas. That would have allowed a few days of normality when it was most needed by people.

Instead, they opened the flood gates at the start of December so everyone could gather on busy shopping streets and centres in hope to rescue retailers.

Dissapointing really

O'Neill

S.M.B. wrote: »

This is really bad timing, not from a "Christmas is cancelled" perspective which I was initially upset about (all I wanted was my wife and son to see her sister who lives a few miles away, the idea of travelling back to Ireland was off the cards long ago) but from a wee now have a more contagious mutation, a large cohort of people unwilling to change their plans as a result of the news and no proper processes in place on this side of the world to properly manage our borders which should have been put in place months ago.

I'm not annoyed with Boris' announcement yesterday, it was the obvious thing to do. I'm pissed that everyone decided to pat themselves on the back towards the end of the summer when these endless lockdown cycles were predicted.

Dreadful timing. The obvious thing to do was not to ease things before Christmas. If I was wearing my tin foil hat I honestly sometimes think the Government through their u-turns and terrible messaging are all done deliberatly and are still in herd immunity mode, their just being clever about it. It's either that or they just don't care or they're not very bright. It's not a good look either way! Of course, that doesn't take away people themselves having to be sensible and show common sense either.

fishy_fishy

S.M.B. wrote: »

This is really bad timing, not from a "Christmas is cancelled" perspective which I was initially upset about (all I wanted was my wife and son to see her sister who lives a few miles away, the idea of travelling back to Ireland was off the cards long ago) but from a wee now have a more contagious mutation, a large cohort of people unwilling to change their plans as a result of the news and no proper processes in place on this side of the world to properly manage our borders which should have been put in place months ago.

I'm not annoyed with Boris' announcement yesterday, it was the obvious thing to do. I'm pissed that everyone decided to pat themselves on the back towards the end of the summer when these endless lockdown cycles were predicted.

I am annoyed at his announcement. The response was absolutely 100% easily predictable. So now instead of people keeping their intended plans, which were mostly carefully planned to be socially distanced, crowds wedged themselves onto trains. Predictably wedged themselves onto trains. I'd be very surprised if the scenes last night cause less harm than would have been caused by not changing restrictions. Mandatory isolation and/or testing for people who mixed with tier 4 households over Christmas would have been less damaging I reckon.. But no way this wasn't predictable, and no way will it not spread like wildfire after last night's behaviour.

Disclaimer: I am in London, in tier 4, having nobody over for Christmas and won't be going home. I don't approve of the behaviour, I just think it was predictable and understandable to an extent.

ancapailldorcha

Necro wrote: »

Will let you know later today, waiting on word from the sis, she's going to airport anyways to see what happens (Luton)

Thanks.

J Mysterio

I feel for people in the Tier 4 areas. After a long, brutal year, people just wanted a few days with their families where they could relax, put their feet up and have a beer.

Reasonable people will have been taking the precautions necessary to protect their families before going home and now have the rug pulled out from under them.

Ok, Boris made the difficult call - and I'm surprised he did as he is such a shyster - but this would not have been necessary if the virus had been better managed before.

It's a complete disaster for so many. I also heard many stories where people had sent their presents to their intended destination (as I did) and so many won't even have any presents if they're stuck where they are. Sad end to a shıt year.

Many people will ignore this and - tbh - I don't blame them (especially) if theu have been very careful. There was always going to be a mass exodus last night, and I expect it to continue. New variant of the virus is disturbing though. It will be here before long.

S.M.B.

These Tier 4 restrictions are also likely to be here for a long time too. I've got over canceling a single meal, it's small fish in the grand scheme of things. 2/3 months off this at the end of a real tough 10 months is going to be devastating though, both in a personal level and for the economy.

J Mysterio

Desperate also for those in the Health Services. Hancock announced the other day that their agreed pay rise is to be blocked as it's 'unaffordable', or something to that effect. This is despite the billions that have been pissed away.

Tough on police too to actually police this. Extra officers to be deployed to stop people 'fleeing London'. The headlines are surreal.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/dec/20/police-to-stop-people-fleeing-new-covid-tier-4-areas-hancock-says

j4vier

S.M.B. wrote: »

These Tier 4 restrictions are also likely to be here for a long time too. I've got over canceling a single meal, it's small fish in the grand scheme of things. 2/3 months off this at the end of a real tough 10 months is going to be devastating though, both in a personal level and for the economy.

A lot of waffle from UK politicians on sky news over this which should not be allowed if the media was in any form respectable-it is clearly aimed at terrifying people. Like saying that Tier 4 restrictions could last until the vaccine is rolled out which could take months.

Hearing sentences coming from the health minister like " none of us could have predicted this" is sickening. Everyone could have predicted another outbreak a few weeks after letting everyone off to do what they like.

Maybe they should start to count and report the deaths by suicide caused by mental and financial stress for many people under these continuous lockdowns

MadYaker

Has any government other than the UK verified the existence of this "new strain" that "might" be 70% more transmissible that just happened to show up 2 weeks after they foolishly loosened their restrictions?

S.M.B.

Turns out I've been able to form a support bubble since the 2nd of December, I've obviously been following this whole situation pretty closely and was completely unaware of this change. Been shouting about the need for it since day 1 of lockdown 1 and then it gets amended with minimal comms. Mixed emotions now as it puts our drastically reduced Christmas plans back on the table after we just cancelled everything.

ancapailldorcha

I'd need a much better source than some right wing grifter.

py2006

15 flights from London expected into Dublin today and a further 15 tomorrow

Dave0301

py2006 wrote: »

15 flights from London expected into Dublin today and a further 15 tomorrow

BBC News saying that Ireland will make a decision about flights arriving from the UK later today.

I would be very surprised if they suspend them like other EU countries have.

Was hoping to get back for a few days, but difficult to justify it now.

nacho libre

Is there to be an announcement at 4 pm about travel restrictions from the UK into Ireland?

Necro

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Thanks.

Picked her up no hassle but looks like from midnight tonight it's all being stopped so