The UK response - Part II - read OP

beggars_bush

Happy4all wrote: »

I watched a UK briefing the other day where their experts categorically ruled out a mix and match vaccine usage.

Irish Times today reporting that they are adopting same!

They are literally making it up as they go along

Happy4all

Happy4all wrote: »

I watched a UK briefing the other day where their experts categorically ruled out a mix and match vaccine usage.

Irish Times today reporting that they are adopting same!

You’ll see more of this over the coming days as the Irish times attempts to deflect criticism from the absolute cluster **** the Irish system has become.

They are not adopting this and have said it isn’t recommended. They have said that in a small number of exceptional cases it is not unreasonable to mix them, but studies are ongoing.

A Dub in Glasgo

Aegir wrote: »

You’ll see more of this over the coming days as the Irish times attempts to deflect criticism from the absolute cluster **** the Irish system has become.

They are not adopting this and have said it isn’t recommended. They have said that in a small number of exceptional cases it is not unreasonable to mix them, but studies are ongoing.

The confusion and concern at the change of deployment with respect to the 2nd dose and the potential mix & match is very much alive in the UK

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

The confusion and concern at the change of deployment with respect to the 2nd dose and the potential mix & match is very much alive in the UK

I fail to see what the confusion is with regards the mix and match. They have quite clearly stated it should not happen unless in exceptional circumstances.

With regards the second dose, if JVT is ok with it then so am I. Of all the CMOs and deputy CMOs ( who all appear to be in agreement with this) he seems to be the guy that would speak out if he didn’t agree with it.

A Dub in Glasgo

You are stating the Irish Times reporting the concerns within the UK is to deflect the Irish govt response. There are real concerns within the UK about the 'on the hoof' decision making that is going on

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You are stating the Irish Times reporting the concerns within the UK is to deflect the Irish govt response. There are real concerns within the UK about the 'on the hoof' decision making that is going on

The Irish times would much rather people “look over there” than actually report on the shambles going on here. It’s little more than a FF publicity machine.

Pete_Cavan

Aegir wrote: »

The Irish times would much rather people “look over there” than actually report on the shambles going on here. It’s little more than a FF publicity machine.

You seem to shout “look over there” every time someone questions the UK government's response! This thread is for discussing the UK government's response.

Pete_Cavan

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

You seem to shout “look over there” every time someone questions the UK government's response! This thread is for discussing the UK government's response.

Based on an article in the Irish times, so I gave my opinion on that and the U.K. governments’ responses.

Professor Moriarty

Aegir wrote: »

The Irish times would much rather people “look over there” than actually report on the shambles going on here. It’s little more than a FF publicity machine.

Well if you insist on contrasting and comparing. Ireland's mortality rate, at 454/million, is 59% less than that of Britain's at 1096/million.

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Well if you insist on contrasting and comparing. Ireland's mortality rate, at 454/million, is 59% less than that of Britain's at 1096/million.

FFS.

What a pathetic post. But from you it isn't surprising.

Dave0301

Aegir wrote: »

The Irish times would much rather people “look over there” than actually report on the shambles going on here. It’s little more than a FF publicity machine.

Just as well the UK doesn't have any media publications that are a mouthpiece for political parties then...

On a completely separate note, the irony of The Spectator fact checking a New York Times article is amusing.

Solar2021

UK going to level 5, whatever that is over there

Bio security centre saying new variant is everywhere

We will likely follow those clowns

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1379492/coronavirus-live-update-UK-Covid-alert-level-5-lockdown-warning-cases-in-my-area-latest

beggars_bush

Literally making it up as they go along over there

nacho libre

I wonder will construction sites stay open under tier 5 restrictions.

Panthro

Lockdown again.
Woo

JP Liz V1

Boris Johnson, 3rd January 2021: “There is no doubt in my mind that schools are safe”

Boris Johnson, 4th January 2021: “Schools must move to remote learning immediately”

O'Neill

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Boris Johnson, 3rd January 2021: “There is no doubt in my mind that schools are safe”

Boris Johnson, 4th January 2021: “Schools must move to remote learning immediately”

Absolute shambles of a Government. I don't know if it's just me but it seems to me they're actually getting worse!

robinph

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Boris Johnson, 3rd January 2021: “There is no doubt in my mind that schools are safe”

Boris Johnson, 4th January 2021: “Schools must move to remote learning immediately”

Closing the schools is the easiest way to ensure the working population stay at home and don't commute or go to work mixing with others there.

Whilst lots of kids have missed time from school due to others in their class/ bubble testing positive, there isn't anything I've seen to suggest that children or their teachers are actually falling ill at any greater rate than the rest of the population.

Enzokk

Harrowing report from the BBC,

I have to wonder, where are the Nightingale Hospitals? With the numbers you are seeing they are going to need them, but the same problem remains with those hospitals. If you cannot staff them it doesn't matter if you have 100 000 new ICU beds, they are worth nothing.

They had the time to build up nursing numbers, but this shambles of a government was too busy with their pet project, and here we are. Good luck getting the vaccines rolled out without hitches with this lot. Have to hope our lot does what they have done during this pandemic...slightly better than the UK. It's not great and we should hope for more, but at least its not the UK, right?

gutenberg

Enzokk wrote: »

Harrowing report from the BBC,

I have to wonder, where are the Nightingale Hospitals? With the numbers you are seeing they are going to need them, but the same problem remains with those hospitals. If you cannot staff them it doesn't matter if you have 100 000 new ICU beds, they are worth nothing.

They had the time to build up nursing numbers, but this shambles of a government was too busy with their pet project, and here we are. Good luck getting the vaccines rolled out without hitches with this lot. Have to hope our lot does what they have done during this pandemic...slightly better than the UK. It's not great and we should hope for more, but at least its not the UK, right?

I believe the Nightingale in Exeter is open and treating Covid patients. Though I read recently that the London one will take non-Covid patients (people recovering from surgery etc.), which is a scary indictment of the state of London hospitals. Total shambles, agreed.

gutenberg

gutenberg wrote: »

I believe the Nightingale in Exeter is open and treating Covid patients. Though I read recently that the London one will take non-Covid patients (people recovering from surgery etc.), which is a scary indictment of the state of London hospitals. Total shambles, agreed.

Manchester is being used for this purpose already and Exeter, Bristol and Harrogate are also treating patients.

It takes up to five years of training to become a critical care nurse I believe. So where do you deploy this highly skilled resource? if you put them all into hospitals that are currently stretched, but not overwhelmed, then at what point do you move them to a hospital with fewer patients?

This is an operational issue, not a government one (although Enzo will always try and blame da tories, he has 541 posts in the covid forum, 540 of which are on the UK response, so you could say he has an "Agenda") and something that only the NHS can resolve.

BMJ article on the hospitals from a few days ago https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n15

auspicious

A fairly accurate assessment of BJ's response - A tragedy of indecision.
Oh yeah and, Chris Tarrant on a comedown.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2zx3DFXqxa8

Professor Moriarty

Enzokk wrote: »

Harrowing report from the BBC,

I have to wonder, where are the Nightingale Hospitals? With the numbers you are seeing they are going to need them, but the same problem remains with those hospitals. If you cannot staff them it doesn't matter if you have 100 000 new ICU beds, they are worth nothing.

They had the time to build up nursing numbers, but this shambles of a government was too busy with their pet project, and here we are. Good luck getting the vaccines rolled out without hitches with this lot. Have to hope our lot does what they have done during this pandemic...slightly better than the UK. It's not great and we should hope for more, but at least its not the UK, right?

Why is the UK's mortality rate 2.5 times that of Ireland? Is it lack of beds? Equipment? Personnel?

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Why is the UK's mortality rate 2.5 times that of Ireland? Is it lack of beds? Equipment? Personnel?

why is Irelands mortality rate twice that of Denmark, is it lack of beds? Equipment? Personnel?

Why is Belgium's mortality rate 50% higher than the UK's, is it lack of beds? Equipment? Personnel?

trixi001

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Why is the UK's mortality rate 2.5 times that of Ireland? Is it lack of beds? Equipment? Personnel?

Or how deaths are measured and recorded?

The UK is also doing mass testing in some areas - so asymptomatic people who have died of other causes, and would not normally have been tested for covid but who have tested +ve for covid (during the mass testing) in the last 28 days, will be recorded as a covid death

Comparing country by country stats is useless due to the number of variables. Pity there is not a standardized measurement used accross Europe.

We just need to consider our own position and how well our hospitals are doing without worrying about we compare globally

BonnieSituation

trixi001 wrote: »

Or how deaths are measured and recorded?

The UK is also doing mass testing in some areas - so asymptomatic people who have died of other causes, and would not normally have been tested for covid but who have tested +ve for covid (during the mass testing) in the last 28 days, will be recorded as a covid death

Comparing country by country stats is useless due to the number of variables. Pity there is not a standardized measurement used accross Europe.

We just need to consider our own position and how well our hospitals are doing without worrying about we compare globally

Isn't that happening in the appropriate threads?


Do we have to go over the purpose of this one again?

trixi001

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Isn't that happening in the appropriate threads?


Do we have to go over the purpose of this one again?

Yes it is, and this thread is about the UK Response - not a UK/Ireland comparison which is pointless given different measuring statistics!

S.M.B.

Not happy to see Hancock confirm that the government has no intention of persuing a zero-covid strategy and goes so far as to say that no country has been able to deliver on this strategy.

This government is more than happy to come up with moonshot strategies for tools to help manage the risk though, they literally called one of these Operation Moonshot.

Sudden Valley

I think only New Zealand has successfully achieved a Zero Covid strategy every other country seems to achieve it only briefly in between the surges in numbers.
The UK seems to be suffering more than most due to government dithering on lockdowns but has got its vaccination programme appears to be spot on.

Joe_ Public

S.M.B. wrote: »

Not happy to see Hancock confirm that the government has no intention of persuing a zero-covid strategy and goes so far as to say that no country has been able to deliver on this strategy.

This government is more than happy to come up with moonshot strategies for tools to help manage the risk though, they literally called one of these Operation Moonshot.

Absolute zero covid may well be impossible to achieve, until vaccination is fully realised at least, but that does not make it a less effective strategy. NZ, Vietnam, SK, Taiwan etc. Plenty of good examples of how such strategies not only helped contain the virus but protected economies too. Maybe too late this time around, but you'd hope at least that future generations will take these lessons on board.