The UK response - Part II - read OP

gutenberg

RobMc59 wrote: »

In my own and colleagues experience the new strain is more contagious but doesn't appear any more deadly than the original.

Interesting, thanks. Anecdotally I also think the new strain is more contagious, just based on the greatly increased numbers in my work and social circle who have got it (and most of them would have been reasonably careful).

Joe_ Public

Wouldnt the fact that they have developed mitigating treatments and improved knowledge of the disease and yet the numbers of hospitalizations and fatalities are still exceeding anything seen last march or april suggest strongly that this is now a more lethal strain we are dealing with? To what degree is the question. One of the things we were told last year was that the virus would typically mutate and become less severe as, apparently, it had nothing to gain by killing its host and thus evolve in a more benign fashion. Doesnt seem to be the case, though, unfortunately.

JP Liz V1

Kenneth Branagh to play Boris Johnson in Michael Winterbottom drama “This Sceptred Isle”

Harry Palmr

Official death tally of those who died within 28 days of confirmed Covid infection has topped 100,000. Obviously the actual number people who died with Covid is quite a bit higher.

A Dub in Glasgo

Here is how it is across the UK



The death toll with COVID-19 on the death cert up to January 15 is 107,908

Galwayguy35

Paisley was on Claire Byrnes show last night and Lisa Chambers was bladdering on and he shut her up fairly lively when he pointed out that the Nordies will all have got the jab and we have to wait for the EU to decide what we should get.

Hate the guy but he was dead right, the Brits are way ahead of the game getting people vaccinated.

Red Silurian

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Paisley was on Claire Byrnes show last night and Lisa Chambers was bladdering on and he shut her up fairly lively when he pointed out that the Nordies will all have got the jab and we have to wait for the EU to decide what we should get.

Hate the guy but he was dead right, the Brits are way ahead of the game getting people vaccinated.

Yeah I heard today that 10% of Northern Ireland has been vaccinated, whether that's the first or second jab I'm not sure but it's a pretty good figure by comparison to us

Galwayguy35

colmtheperson wrote: »

Yeah I heard today that 10% of Northern Ireland has been vaccinated, whether that's the first or second jab I'm not sure but it's a pretty good figure by comparison to us

There's no doubt they made a mess of things last year but they are on the money with getting people vaccinated.

A Dub in Glasgo

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1354175393327153152

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1354175393327153152

Didn’t the leader of the Scottish parliament miss the same and more Cobra meetings?

Joe_ Public

Aegir wrote: »

Didn’t the leader of the Scottish parliament miss the same and more Cobra meetings?

Should we have expected the leader of a devolved country to have spent half a day travelling to a meeting that the prime minister didnt even bother attending even though it was a couple of minutes walk from his home? How many Scottish cobra meetings did she miss, shouldn't that be the direct comparison if you want to go there.

PommieBast

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Should we have expected the leader of a devolved country to have spent half a day travelling to a meeting that the prime minister didnt even bother attending even though it was a couple of minutes walk from his home? How many Scottish cobra meetings did she miss, shouldn't that be the direct comparison if you want to go there.

Was she even invited? Vaguely remember some noises from Sadiq Kahn about being excluded..

Joe_ Public

PommieBast wrote: »

Was she even invited? Vaguely remember some noises from Sadiq Kahn about being excluded..

I think devolved leaders had a place at the table, I'm sure they would have a rep there at least. But how much of a look in would scots, welsh or northern irish get at those meetings anyway? I cant imagine they'd have considered it a productive use of their time, unless maybe they were keen to get a first hand account of Dominic Cummings weirdo outside the box thinking!

bob mcbob

It is interesting looking back at statements made in the summer and seeing who was right and who was wrong. This is from July 19th -

Boris Johnson has said the UK will not need another nationwide lockdown despite expert warnings of up to 120,000 extra deaths during a second wave this winter.

The prime minister described the coronavirus restrictions he imposed on 23 March as a “nuclear deterrent” that he did not think he would ever have to use again.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-lockdown-uk-boris-johnson-winter-second-wave-a9626656.html

So according to Tory politicians today they could not have possibly know what was going to happen despite the experts warning that this would happen.

Still who needs experts.

robinph

But there were also plenty of equally expert experts up until that point saying that mutations would generally be less contagious or deadly, they were still expecting vaccines to appear and be successful at some point soon (and they came along quicker than expected) and so other than the relatively mild lockdown in November due to the effects of winter was a perfectly legitimate prediction to take. Doesn't mean they shouldn't have been planning for the disaster of especially contagious new strains in the background, and they jumped on that fairly quickly after it was actually identified as the cause of the increasing cases towards the end of November, but in September cases were relatively low and had been for a good while. Based on the main strains around at the time there wasn't any reason to think that things would suddenly turn up to 11 on the contagious factor.

Could have done more to prevent any Christmas socialising by the time December rolled around. But anything that happened prior to the beginning of December was along the lines of what they would have expected in September. Cases increases through October because people were finally able to get back to work because the kids were then back in school...so once people were back in work and not following the same rules they had been for months cases went up. Closing the schools in January is the difference that has slowed the rise in cases now, and that is because that forces workplaces to close rather than because schools are the main cause of transmission.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/27/hospital-incursions-by-covid-deniers-putting-lives-at-risk-say-leaders

Lives are being put at risk and the care of patients disrupted by a spate of hospital incursions from Covid-19 deniers whose online activity is channelling hatred against NHS staff, say healthcare and police chiefs.

In the latest example of a growing trend, a group of people were ejected by security from a Covid-19 ward last week as one of them filmed staff, claimed that the virus was a hoax and demanded that a seriously ill patient be sent home

“He will die if he is taken from from here,” a consultant tells the man on footage, which was later shared on social media. Following contact by the Guardian, Facebook took down footage and other shocking posts in which conspiracy theorists described NHS staff as “ventilator killers”.

Report on increasing activities by deniers and conspiracy theorists.

A Dub in Glasgo

Aegir wrote: »

Didn’t the leader of the Scottish parliament miss the same and more Cobra meetings?

bob mcbob

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/27/hospital-incursions-by-covid-deniers-putting-lives-at-risk-say-leaders



Report on increasing activities by deniers and conspiracy theorists.

This also includes a leading Tory MP.

The Cabinet Office minister, Michael Gove, has refused to call for action to be taken against his Tory party colleague Sir Desmond Swayne for suggesting official data should not be trusted and encouraging fringe groups of lockdown-sceptics and anti-vaxxers.

Swayne, a former Conservative minister, made the spurious claim that official sources were manipulating data to exaggerate the danger during a call with a campaign group in November.

In comments unearthed by Sky News , he falsely claimed the number of people in intensive care wards was broadly normal and encouraged the group Save Our Rights UK to persist with their campaign, which has become a haven for anti-vaxxers.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/28/gove-refuses-to-back-action-against-tory-mp-over-covid-comment

Who needs experts ?

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

isn't this about the UK response?

Surely the first minister of Scotland missing the Cobra meetings is an important part of the UK response? just as important as the fact the SNP followed the exact same advice and did the exact same thing in the early days? otherwise, why would they want to brand it as "Scottish Advice" https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19023346.snp-ministers-asked-scottish-branded-covid-advice/

SNP ministers insisted at the start of the coronavirus pandemic that official advice on the emerging threat should be “branded” as Scottish.

Official minutes from one of the Scottish Government’s emergency operation meetings show ministers wanted people to know the advice was coming out of Edinburgh as well as London.

Or, as I suspect, this thread purely about throwing stones at Boris?

robinph

Aegir wrote: »

Or, as I suspect, this thread purely about throwing stones at Boris?

Which in most cases is totally justified.

There is also the multiple instances of Scotland releasing details of some new strategy around midday, and Wales then repeating the same thing a few hours later, followed by London doing so for a UK wide basis or just England where that applies in the following days press conference.

That then gets banded as if Johnson is not coming up with his own ideas and is having to copy Sturgeon each time...rather than the more accurate scenario which will be a meeting was had between all 4 chief scientists on one morning, agreed with the various ministers, Sturgeon then decides to grab the headlines by getting out there first with the announcement.

Nothing wrong with doing that, but people shouldn't try to claim that those instances are anything other than political theatre. Much like Hancock mentioning on the day after various noises were made about Scottish independence referendum he was doing the rounds and mentioning about how Scottish, NI and North East ambulance crews were assisting each other with staff shortages as each was getting overloaded at different times and he was using that to prove how "we're better together"... and Johnsons trip to Scotland today is also to counter the independence noises as well. Bit of an own goal though after the SNP tweet earlier with the picture of Johnson and the line "Stay home, save lives".

All four countries are basically doing the same thing and in agreement with each other, there is only very slight deviations from one another.



Wales was getting criticised a couple of weeks ago for not having an international travel ban like Scotland and England did, their first minister was then struggling to explain to some idiot reporter that it was irrelevant as Wales had no international travel. The media was just trying to sow discord where there was none.

RobMc59

The UK at the forefront again,securing sixty million doses of the new novavax vaccine.
"Novavax publishes positive efficacy data for its COVID-19 vaccine - GOV.UK" https://www.gov.uk/government/news/novavax-publishes-positive-efficacy-data-for-its-covid-19-vaccine

RobMc59

RobMc59 wrote: »

The UK at the forefront again,securing sixty million doses of the new novavax vaccine.
"Novavax publishes positive efficacy data for its COVID-19 vaccine - GOV.UK" https://www.gov.uk/government/news/novavax-publishes-positive-efficacy-data-for-its-covid-19-vaccine

It looks like the vaccine task force is paying dividends and despite all the detractors calling her appoint chumocracy, Kate Bingham seems to have picked some good places to invest government money.

beggars_bush

Aegir wrote: »

It looks like the vaccine task force is paying dividends and despite all the detractors calling her appoint chumocracy, Kate Bingham seems to have picked some good places to invest government money.

They squandered enough of it

robinph

beggars_bush wrote: »

They squandered enough of it

It's going to cost taxpayers a massive amount in years to come, and was a massive gamble putting in orders for several multiples of the population with multiple manufacturers before it was even clear if any vaccine would work... Or possibly even needed if something odd had happened and the virus had burnt itself out during the summer.

There will be a lot of left over vaccines to be paid for that aren't needed, or the UK has already got their orders in for next seasons Covid vaccine.

Melanchthon

robinph wrote: »

It's going to cost taxpayers a massive amount in years to come, and was a massive gamble putting in orders for several multiples of the population with multiple manufacturers before it was even clear if any vaccine would work... Or possibly even needed if something odd had happened and the virus had burnt itself out during the summer.

There will be a lot of left over vaccines to be paid for that aren't needed, or the UK has already got their orders in for next seasons Covid vaccine.

People talk a lot about soft power but I imagine getting gifted a significant order of left over vaccine would buy significant good will.
Not doing a mindless pro-UK thing, the EU has the same scheme and China and Russia are both increasing influence by supplying vaccine now to South American countries for example

Donald Trump

Melanchthon wrote: »

People talk a lot about soft power but I imagine getting gifted a significant order of left over vaccine would buy significant good will.
Not doing a mindless pro-UK thing, the EU has the same scheme and China and Russia are both increasing influence by supplying vaccine now to South American countries for example

Melanchthon, I may be incorrect, but were you not one of the ones over on the other thread saying that because of the fact that the EU had not yet approved the AZ vaccine, that AZ would have been morally right to take EU prepaid vaccines and sell them again a second time to where it was already approved?


How then could the UK be morally right in effectively hoarding multiples of the vaccines it needs in order to obtain foreign political influence?



Edit. Sorry. Mixed you up according to your post below. Hard to keep track of everyone!

Melanchthon

Donald Trump wrote: »

Melanchthon, I may be incorrect, but were you not one of the ones over on the other thread saying that because of the fact that the EU had not yet approved the AZ vaccine, that AZ would have been morally right to take EU prepaid vaccines and sell them again a second time to where it was already approved?


How then could the UK be morally right in effectively hoarding multiples of the vaccines it needs in order to obtain foreign political influence?

No I am one of the ones saying that.
The UK order is likely to have had a different contractual obligations than the EU's orders and was placed considerably earlier, also the UK paid more for each dose which since its produced at cost means they invested more in manufacturing capacity, also the UK put considerably more cash into vaccine development than the EU.

My feeling is Astra Zeneca got so much attention (compared to the negligible attention to their 30 million dose shortfall to the UK in the autumn) and the export controls have came in because the situation has became politically damaging to the commission.
The UK is still vaccinating the most vulnerable people with the vaccine they aren't exactly hording it, there is still lots of vulnerable waiting for a second dose.

I am critical of Astra Zeneca over promising though, we will see what the contracts say

Donald Trump

Melanchthon wrote: »

No I am one of the ones saying that.
The UK order is likely to have had a different contractual obligations than the EU's orders and was placed considerably earlier, also the UK paid more for each dose which since its produced at cost means they invested more in manufacturing capacity, also the UK put considerably more cash into vaccine development than the EU.

My feeling is Astra Zeneca got so much attention (compared to the negligible attention to their 30 million dose shortfall to the UK in the autumn) and the export controls have came in because the situation has became politically damaging to the commission.
The UK is still vaccinating the most vulnerable people with the vaccine they aren't exactly hording it, there is still lots of vulnerable waiting for a second dose.

I am critical of Astra Zeneca over promising though, we will see what the contracts say

But you are quoting graphs and applying them to AZ when the graphs are not for AZ. So you don't have the breakdown there to isolate that for a comparison.


If AZ took money from the EU knowing that it couldn't deliver its order, and also knowing that it would really be using that money to instead fund the fulfillment of a separate order, that would be fraud, no?

Melanchthon

Donald Trump wrote: »

But you are quoting graphs and applying them to AZ when the graphs are not for AZ. So you don't have the breakdown there to isolate that for a comparison.


If AZ took money from the EU knowing that it couldn't deliver its order, and also knowing that it would really be using that money to instead fund the fulfillment of a separate order, that would be fraud, no?

there's a whole other thread for this

robinph

robinph wrote: »

It's going to cost taxpayers a massive amount in years to come, and was a massive gamble putting in orders for several multiples of the population with multiple manufacturers before it was even clear if any vaccine would work... Or possibly even needed if something odd had happened and the virus had burnt itself out during the summer.

There will be a lot of left over vaccines to be paid for that aren't needed, or the UK has already got their orders in for next seasons Covid vaccine.

The U.K. is already supporting Covax financially, I would imagine they will provide excess vaccines as well.