The UK response - Part II - read OP

RobMc59

Donald Trump wrote: »

But you are quoting graphs and applying them to AZ when the graphs are not for AZ. So you don't have the breakdown there to isolate that for a comparison.


If AZ took money from the EU knowing that it couldn't deliver its order, and also knowing that it would really be using that money to instead fund the fulfillment of a separate order, that would be fraud, no?

I'd have thought Ireland and other individual nations would have learned their lesson by now and stopped following the manic dogma of the pied pipers of brussels.Grow a pair and stick up for yourselves,order your own vaccines now.

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'd have thought Ireland and other individual nations would have learned their lesson by now and stopped following the manic dogma of the pied pipers of brussels.Grow a pair and stick up for yourselves,order your own vaccines now.

But you're pro-EU right?

Seth Brundle

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'd have thought Ireland and other individual nations would have learned their lesson by now and stopped following the manic dogma of the pied pipers of brussels.Grow a pair and stick up for yourselves,order your own vaccines now.

Would you give it a rest Rob? :rolleyes:

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But you're pro-EU right?

Yes I am pro eu but don't agree with blind obedience.

PommieBast

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'd have thought Ireland and other individual nations would have learned their lesson by now and stopped following the manic dogma of the pied pipers of brussels.Grow a pair and stick up for yourselves,order your own vaccines now.

Would it work though? Germany ordered some on the sly but from what I recall that order won't be serviced until July-August..

Seth Brundle

PommieBast wrote: »

Would it work though? Germany ordered some on the sly but from what I recall that order won't be serviced until July-August..

How exactly did they order on the sly when everyone knew about it and they were allowed to do so (just as the UK did or any EU member could)?

PommieBast

Seth Brundle wrote: »

How exactly did they order on the sly when everyone knew about it and they were allowed to do so (just as the UK did or any EU member could)?

Well not-so-sly then :P
It is really the bit about not actually getting doses any earlier that I was remarking on..

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

Yes I am pro eu but don't agree with blind obedience.

But you do do Brexity soundbites to beat the band.

One of these things is not like the other...

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But you do do Brexity soundbites to beat the band.

One of these things is not like the other...

I think the general concept of the EU is a good thing but also believe there is a definite movement towards increased centralised control from Brussels.An example of this is Seth's casual statement that countries are 'allowed 'to do things by Brussels- I'm uncomfortable with that level of control.

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

I think the general concept of the EU is a good thing but also believe there is a definite movement towards increased centralised control from Brussels.An example of this is Seth's casual statement that countries are 'allowed 'to do things by Brussels- I'm uncomfortable with that level of control.

Even if that were true, the countries have made a sovereign decision to give jurisdiction/competence to the EU in that area.

The control is always in the hands of the State. How can you still not wrap your head around this???

Seth Brundle

RobMc59 wrote: »

I think the general concept of the EU is a good thing but also believe there is a definite movement towards increased centralised control from Brussels.An example of this is Seth's casual statement that countries are 'allowed 'to do things by Brussels- I'm uncomfortable with that level of control.

You're deliberately choosing to read it that way as it suits your pro-Brexit narrative. It's obvious to everyone!

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Even if that were true, the countries have made a sovereign decision to give jurisdiction/competence to the EU in that area.

The control is always in the hands of the State. How can you still not wrap your head around this???

I don't see the EU as a state,I see it as an international organisation which comprises individual states.I believe the central administration(Brussels) is slowly eroding individual nations control over their own affairs.

Donald Trump

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'd have thought Ireland and other individual nations would have learned their lesson by now and stopped following the manic dogma of the pied pipers of brussels.Grow a pair and stick up for yourselves,order your own vaccines now.

How do you think that might work Rob?


We have the current debacle of a company apparently trying to give the two fingers to the EU. How well would you expect Ireland (~5m population) to fare?


Additionally, Ireland/France/Germany/Spain/Poland/etc all scrambling to sign contracts for delivery. It's not quite the same as logging onto tesco.ie for the weekly shop and selecting a delivery slot and putting in your details.



Ireland at the top of the priority list?

Donald Trump

RobMc59 wrote: »

I don't see the EU as a state,I see it as an international organisation which comprises individual states.I believe the central administration(Brussels) is slowly eroding individual nations control over their own affairs.

Would you be in favour of the breakup of the Union of England/Scotland/Wales/NI?

Even for vaccination sourcing and logistics?

Should be be allowed to compete and outbid each other etc?

RebelButtMunch

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'd have thought Ireland and other individual nations would have learned their lesson by now and stopped following the manic dogma of the pied pipers of brussels.Grow a pair and stick up for yourselves,order your own vaccines now.

Good idea, we might just manage to outbid Cyprus.

monkeybutter

RobMc59 wrote: »

I don't see the EU as a state,I see it as an international organisation which comprises individual states.I believe the central administration(Brussels) is slowly eroding individual nations control over their own affairs.

then move back to blighty so would ya, see how you get on

Donald Trump

monkeybutter wrote: »

then move back to blighty so would ya, see how you get on

Rob's not the worst poster by a long shot. I don't agree with a lot of his positions but I wouldn't tell him to go anywhere.

The input is useful on here because he doesn't seem to be dogmatic like some other posters on "that side" of the debate.

Just my opinion

monkeybutter

Donald Trump wrote: »

Rob's not the worst poster by a long shot. I don't agree with a lot of his positions but I wouldn't tell him to go anywhere.

The input is useful on here because he doesn't seem to be dogmatic like some other posters on "that side" of the debate.

Just my opinion

I'm sure he can take a joke

RobMc59

monkeybutter wrote: »

then move back to blighty so would ya, see how you get on

I live in blighty

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

I don't see the EU as a state,I see it as an international organisation which comprises individual states.I believe the central administration(Brussels) is slowly eroding individual nations control over their own affairs.

You believe incorrectly.

Yevon

Yevon wrote: »

Long shot here but but maybe someone would know, I have a relative that lives in ROI but works in NI. Has a UK Medical Card and is within the age range to get the Vaccine at the moment. Is he entitled to get the vaccine on the basis of having a UK Medical card or does he need to be residing in NI? From the booking page, I can't see anything to say he shouldn't.

If he is registered with a GP in the north then it might be worth a shot

robinph

Yevon wrote: »

Long shot here but but maybe someone would know, I have a relative that lives in ROI but works in NI. Has a UK Medical Card and is within the age range to get the Vaccine at the moment. Is he entitled to get the vaccine on the basis of having a UK Medical card or does he need to be residing in NI? From the booking page, I can't see anything to say he shouldn't.

Wherever they happen to be registered with a GP will presumably where they end up getting added to the list to be called for the vaccine. Unless they are in some priority category that means they are due to be called under one system or the other in the next month or so, which would mean they are over 65 or extremely clinically vulnerable, then it's not worth worrying about just yet.

oharach7

Yevon wrote: »

He wouldn't be, his GP is in ROI. I believe his NI Medical Card has the Health and Care number they request at booking. I am trying to encourage him to get it but he would be mortified to go for it if he's not meant to and questions are asked when he produces an ROI drivers licence and has an ROI address.

I assume he is in the 65-69 group which means he is able to self-book online. The 70+ group are being called via GPs.

Why don't you give one of the vaccination centres a call and ask before he books - here is the number for Craigavon: +44 28 3756 0300. They are open 10am-5pm seven days a week. There is also a general booking line going live on Monday morning - the number isn't available yet.

Other numbers are on this page: https://covid-19.hscni.net/get-vaccinated/

I would suspect it is fine - I read that UK vaccinated all Spanish workers in Gibraltar, assume they didn't all have their GPs there.

Pete_Cavan

Were there no UK deaths announced today?

oharach7

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Were there no UK deaths announced today?

I wish. There is some unspecified issue with the processing of data and they are supposed to be coming out later tonight.

Donald Trump

WHO is asking the UK to share it's vaccines with poor countries and not hoard them once they have the vulnerable protected

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/who-urges-britain-to-pause-covid-jabs-after-treating-vulnerable

AllForIt

Donald Trump wrote: »

WHO is asking the UK to share it's vaccines with poor countries and not hoard them once they have the vulnerable protected

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/who-urges-britain-to-pause-covid-jabs-after-treating-vulnerable

But I thought the UK had the highest cases in Europe, surely they should sort themselves out first. I don't see what 'poor countries' has to do with anything.

Melanchthon

Donald Trump wrote: »

WHO is asking the UK to share it's vaccines with poor countries and not hoard them once they have the vulnerable protected

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/who-urges-britain-to-pause-covid-jabs-after-treating-vulnerable

That's a fair and ethical approach. Isn't there the issue of herd immunity though, as in if the UK did this it would leave those that are vulnerable but can't be vaccinated at risk, as well as this there is those with hidden vulnerabilities.

I presume it would be impossible for Oxford to demand that the vaccine be made open source at this point like it was originally planned, because whatever about the political and legal rows I think it's fair to agree that Astra Zeneca have certainly dropped the ball in terms of production capacity.

The serum Institute in India look to be doing great work on mass production and the fire hasn't impacted production.

robinph

Donald Trump wrote: »

WHO is asking the UK to share it's vaccines with poor countries and not hoard them once they have the vulnerable protected

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/who-urges-britain-to-pause-covid-jabs-after-treating-vulnerable

The UK is still a long way from that point though. Out of the 9 categories of vulnerable groups they have declared so far they are still only working through groups 3 and 4, and there are far more people in the groups 7, 8 and 9 than in the earlier groups. Think the statement from the WHO isn't really anyone disagreeing over anything and they haven't asked for the UK to slow what they are doing at the moment, they are only talking about the people after those initial 9 higher risk groups, which is everyone over 50 and those with other medical conditions.

By the time the UK has those categories vaccinated there will be even more vaccines available and almost certainly more than they can stick in people's arms. The covax scheme already sets out how much sharing of vaccines there are between various countries and the UK has signed up for that scheme and funded it.

The WHO statement is just them wanting to get their name in the news by saying "we think everyone should agree that Monday is the first working day of the week" and everyone else says "erm, yes. OK then, thanks for the advice".

Donald Trump

For feck sake. I'd have thought they'd have vaccinated captain Tom!

https://www.independent.ie/news/100-year-old-captain-tom-who-raised-millions-for-nhs-is-hospitalised-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19-40033235.html