The UK response - Part II - read OP

A Dub in Glasgo

I have refuted your points. Flights into Britain from India come into England and UK govt has jurisdication in this regard. There are no flights into Scotland therefore there is nothing the SG can do to stop flights from India into Britain

You, of course, are free to check these facts and refute them

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I have refuted your points. Flights into Britain from India come into England and UK govt has jurisdication in this regard. There are no flights into Scotland therefore there is nothing the SG can do to stop flights from India into Britain

You, of course, are free to check these facts and refute them

How does the Scottish government prevent someone flying in to Prestwick via a green list country?

Peregrinus

Aegir wrote: »

How does the Scottish government prevent someone flying in to Prestwick via a green list country?

Open to correction, but I don't think Scotland can do this. Immigration and border control is not a devolved matter. Scotland can make laws requiring people who enter Scotland to quarantine, self-isolate, get tested, whatever, but it can't make laws to prevent them from entering Scotland in the first place. Only Westminster can do that.

Peregrinus

Peregrinus wrote: »

Open to correction, but I don't think Scotland can do this. Immigration and border control is not a devolved matter. Scotland can make laws requiring people who enter Scotland to quarantine, self-isolate, get tested, whatever, but it can't make laws to prevent them from entering Scotland in the first place. Only Westminster can do that.

ok, so what happens to passengers entering Scotland from a green or Amber list country?

josip

Aegir wrote: »

ok, so what happens to passengers entering Scotland from a green or Amber list country?

If you already know the answer, please tell us and make your point.
If you don't know the answer, are you expecting boards users to do your research for you?

Peregrinus

Aegir wrote: »

ok, so what happens to passengers entering Scotland from a green or Amber list country?

AIUI, the requirements don't depend on what country you are travelling from; they depend on what country or countries you have been in during the 10 days before travel. So if you have been in a red list country you are subject to the red list requirements, even if your immediate journey to Scotland originated in a green or amber list country.

LuckyLloyd

Seriously?

A string of posts implying that the Scottish government is actually to blame for the failure to protect the U.K. from the Delta variant? Not Boris Johnson and his government with the actual power in the matter.

I suppose it is effective posting as it pushes the excellent dissemination of what happened onto a previous page. Job done.

Peregrinus

Peregrinus wrote: »

AIUI, the requirements don't depend on what country you are travelling from; they depend on what country or countries you have been in during the 10 days before travel. So if you have been in a red list country you are subject to the red list requirements, even if your immediate journey to Scotland originated in a green or amber list country.

so why didn't the Scottish government implement these restrictions earlier to try and prevent the Delta variant entering Scotland?

The simple reason is that the Delta variant wasn't perceived to be as big an issue as it became. Anyone arriving in the UK had to have a negative PCR test, infection rates were dropping quickly and other than a new variant being identified, there was nothing until early April to suggest that Delta was anything to worry about and it wasn't until the 11th May that it was actually classified as a variant of concern. The Delta variant, by the way, was fist sequenced in October.

The Kent variant was first sequenced in September and again, it wasn't until December it was classified as a VOC. If every new variant meant travel bans and lockdowns, we will be doing this for the nect twenty years.

So my point then, to make it very clear, is that if you are going to blame Johnson for failing to keep the variant out of the UK, you will also need to blame Sturgeon, as she would have had the exact same data Johnson had and could easily have done something about it.

When you then look across Europe and the dates Italy, France, Germany, the Netherlands and Ireland put India on their "Red List" it makes singling out Johnson for blame and claiming the reason travel restrictions weren't implemented was because he was due to go to India, all seem like petty points scoring.

but petty points scoring and SNP supporters go hand in hand, so it is to be expected.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Seriously?

A string of posts implying that the Scottish government is actually to blame for the failure to protect the U.K. from the Delta variant? Not Boris Johnson and his government with the actual power in the matter.

I suppose it is effective posting as it pushes the excellent dissemination of what happened onto a previous page. Job done.

no one said that, stop making stuff up.

A Dub in Glasgo

Aegir wrote: »

How does the Scottish government prevent someone flying in to Prestwick via a green list country?

What flights into Prestwick?

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

What flights into Prestwick?

ok, Glasgow, Edinburgh or Aberdeen. :rolleyes:

bob mcbob

Aegir wrote: »

so why didn't the Scottish government implement these restrictions earlier to try and prevent the Delta variant entering Scotland?

The simple reason is that the Delta variant wasn't perceived to be as big an issue as it became. Anyone arriving in the UK had to have a negative PCR test, infection rates were dropping quickly and other than a new variant being identified, there was nothing until early April to suggest that Delta was anything to worry about and it wasn't until the 11th May that it was actually classified as a variant of concern. The Delta variant, by the way, was fist sequenced in October.

The Kent variant was first sequenced in September and again, it wasn't until December it was classified as a VOC. If every new variant meant travel bans and lockdowns, we will be doing this for the nect twenty years.

So my point then, to make it very clear, is that if you are going to blame Johnson for failing to keep the variant out of the UK, you will also need to blame Sturgeon, as she would have had the exact same data Johnson had and could easily have done something about it.

When you then look across Europe and the dates Italy, France, Germany, the Netherlands and Ireland put India on their "Red List" it makes singling out Johnson for blame and claiming the reason travel restrictions weren't implemented was because he was due to go to India, all seem like petty points scoring.

but petty points scoring and SNP supporters go hand in hand, so it is to be expected.

Ok the perhaps you can explain something - both Pakistan and Bangladesh were added to the red list on the 2nd of April but India despite having much higher covid rates and a new variant detected, it was kept on the green list.

This does not seem very logical to me but I am sure you have a deflection
answer

You can see it on the attached - just go to 2nd April

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1404822229939113989

A Dub in Glasgo

Aegir wrote: »

ok, Glasgow, Edinburgh or Aberdeen. :rolleyes:

I will ask then what flights into Glasgow, Edinburgh or Aberdeen?

bob mcbob

bob mcbob wrote: »

Ok the perhaps you can explain something - both Pakistan and Bangladesh were added to the red list on the 2nd of April but India despite having much higher covid rates and a new variant detected, it was kept on the green list.

This does not seem very logical to me but I am sure you have a deflection
answer

You can see it on the attached - just go to 2nd April

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1404822229939113989

ooh look, someone posted something on twitter, it must be true :rolleyes:

Bangladesh had a large number of South African Variant, which had already been identified as one of concern.

Interestingly, this article from 2nd April mentions several countries, but not India https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/02/covid-england-adds-pakistan-bangladesh-kenya-and-philippines-to-travel-red-list

Maybe the Guardian only works on hindsight, not with a crystal ball.

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

I will ask then what flights into Glasgow, Edinburgh or Aberdeen?

one from a green list country, or even an amber list one. This is tiresome, you know full well what i am getting at.

Arghus

It's comical how many times he repeats that exact same soundbyte: "I see nothing in the data..." but the tone is slightly less sure each time.

But Boris is untouchable. He's shown himself to be incompetent, bumbling, untrustworthy and out of his depth time and time again and absolutely nothing sticks to him.

Hurrache

Aegir wrote: »

ooh look, someone posted something on twitter, it must be true :rolleyes:

Erm, it is true. You see to be the only one denying this very simple and easily verifiable fact, even the Tories haven't been able to deny it. But the Scots....

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

Erm, it is true. You see to be the only one denying this very simple and easily verifiable fact, even the Tories haven't been able to deny it. But the Scots....

what is true?

It's captain hindsight stuff.

Hurrache

Aegir wrote: »

what is true?

It's captain hindsight stuff.

Do you purposely ignore the facts that were available at the time as an absolute? They were available a while and even raised in the commons by opposition.

The level of brainwashing is hilarious.

bob mcbob

Aegir wrote: »

ooh look, someone posted something on twitter, it must be true :rolleyes:

Bangladesh had a large number of South African Variant, which had already been identified as one of concern.

Interestingly, this article from 2nd April mentions several countries, but not India https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/02/covid-england-adds-pakistan-bangladesh-kenya-and-philippines-to-travel-red-list

Maybe the Guardian only works on hindsight, not with a crystal ball.

That Guardian article is based on the Government's decision on who has been added to the red list - as the government chose to ignore India, India was ignored in the article.

So Bangladesh had the SA variant (also actually so did India at this time) but Pakistan did not. Also India had the Brazilian variant at this time as well as it's own variant. Pakistan had no variants.

Pakistan also had a quarter of India's infection rate at the time. Also do not give the hindsight BS as all these figures are published very day on some websites.

So to be specific why was Pakistan added to the red list when India remained green?

A Dub in Glasgo

Aegir wrote: »

one from a green list country, or even an amber list one. This is tiresome, you know full well what i am getting at.

Scottish airports have essentially been shut to international travel since January so what flights are you talking about?

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

Do you purposely ignore the facts that were available at the time as an absolute? They were available a while and even raised in the commons by opposition.

The level of brainwashing is hilarious.

hhhmmm, lets look at this forum shall we.

First mention of India in this thread, 10th May, with little or no discussion and certainly no posters clamoring for the airports to be closed.

Covid in India thread crated 29th April, very little discussion early on about the "Indian Variant" or people clamoring for the airports to ban flights from India.

Delta Variant thread created 11th June for discussion on the variant in the UK.

Thread entitled "Can we have some ****ing control over the airports" starts to mention India on the 17th April" as it becomes apparent that India has an issue.

16 June, Hurrache claims that not implementing MHQ on passengers from India earlier than 23rd April isn't in fact hindsight at all, as everyone has been saying it the right thing to do.

IT IS THE EPITOME OF "CAPTAIN HINDSIGHT".

A Dub in Glasgo

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Scottish airports have essentially been shut to international travel since January so what flights are you talking about?

https://www.scotsman.com/health/international-travel-scotlands-quarantine-hotel-system-for-covid-three-months-on-3234582

While non-essential international travel has been banned, more than 100,000 people have entered Scotland from outside the UK since the beginning of January.

Numbers were highest in the first weeks of the year, with almost 15,000 arrivals in the second week of January.

While this likely reflects more people travelling to see loved ones during the festive period, figures also dropped off sharply in the weeks after new lockdowns were announced.

Since then, around 5,000 people have arrived each week, with a high of almost 7,000 in the week before the quarantine hotel requirement came into force, and lows of 2,500 to 3,300 in the weeks immediately afterwards.

In that period around 80 per cent of the 50,000 new arrivals have been told to quarantine.

Around 70 per cent of them have been contacted by the National Contact Tracing Centre. The Scottish Government said everyone required to isolate is contacted by email, while an agreed target of people are called.

Just a fifth of those have been required to quarantine do so in a hotel – just over 8,000 people.

josip

Aegir wrote: »

hhhmmm, lets look at this forum shall we.

First mention of India in this thread, 10th May, with little or no discussion and certainly no posters clamoring for the airports to be closed.

Covid in India thread crated 29th April, very little discussion early on about the "Indian Variant" or people clamoring for the airports to ban flights from India.

Delta Variant thread created 11th June for discussion on the variant in the UK.

Thread entitled "Can we have some ****ing control over the airports" starts to mention India on the 17th April" as it becomes apparent that India has an issue.

16 June, Hurrache claims that not implementing MHQ on passengers from India earlier than 23rd April isn't in fact hindsight at all, as everyone has been saying it the right thing to do.

IT IS THE EPITOME OF "CAPTAIN HINDSIGHT".

MHQ of India raised on the main thread on the 12th of April.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=116869862&postcount=5756

There might be earlier mentions, I didn't look very hard.

Hurrache

Aegir wrote: »

hhhmmm, lets look at this forum shall we.

First mention of India in this thread, 10th May, with little or no discussion and certainly no posters clamoring for the airports to be closed.

Covid in India thread crated 29th April, very little discussion early on about the "Indian Variant" or people clamoring for the airports to ban flights from India.

Delta Variant thread created 11th June for discussion on the variant in the UK.

Thread entitled "Can we have some ****ing control over the airports" starts to mention India on the 17th April" as it becomes apparent that India has an issue.

16 June, Hurrache claims that not implementing MHQ on passengers from India earlier than 23rd April isn't in fact hindsight at all, as everyone has been saying it the right thing to do.

IT IS THE EPITOME OF "CAPTAIN HINDSIGHT".

Amazing, you think boards.ie is where international governments get their info from on which they base their public health protocols? Ah sure if it hasn't been discussed in this forum then it never happened, or so is your bizarre take on where information comes from.

You're good to be laughed at if nothing else.

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

Amazing, you think boards.ie is where international governments get their info from on which they base their public health protocols? Ah sure if it hasn't been discussed in this forum then it never happened, or so is your bizarre take on where information comes from.

You're good to be laughed at if nothing else.

Of course not. Governments and their various health agencies share data around testing levels, variants etc. that’s why they all came to the same conclusion about keeping an eye on the Delta variant around early to mid April and chose to limit travel from the region a couple of weeks later. Just before the world health organization declared it a variant of concern on the 11th May.

Maybe they were all going on the same trip as Boris, or maybe they came to the same conclusion around the same time, but of course according to the usual cohort (or maybe we could call them the Captain Hindsights), Boris should have known months earlier for some bizarre reason.

It’s amusing.

LuckyLloyd

https://dominiccummings.substack.com/the-pm-on-hancock-totally-****ing

(Click this, then click the top link as boards swear filter prevents the link working)

Wow! His reasons may be personal and self serving, but in any properly functioning democracy this would be seismic.
.

BonnieSituation

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

https://dominiccummings.substack.com/the-pm-on-hancock-totally-****ing

(Click this, then click the top link as boards swear filter prevents the link working)

Wow! His reasons may be personal and self serving, but in any properly functioning democracy this would be seismic.
.

When it dropped today I was thinking that this would be the new beginning of the end.. But nope... NOTHING!

LuckyLloyd

BonnieSituation wrote: »

When it dropped today I was thinking that this would be the new beginning of the end.. But nope... NOTHING!

Ah their societal discourse is broken. It’s beyond scary how much can come out without any meaningful reaction.

BonnieSituation

I know we joke sometimes about how Trumpian it is, but it is beyond that.

Trump was a dolt and Johnson isn't as bright as he's alluded to being, but like me in exam week, he muddles through, gets away with it and never gets comeuppance!

After the C4 interview in Cornwall last week, where he was completely murdered, they kept rolling and he was all exasperated, and "Is that it?" in such a toddler-esque fashion at the end... Imagine Major or Blair or even Cameron finding themselves in that position, they would have been hounded out of it.

When you see the likes of the Downing Street Declaration and how a Tory PM was supposed to act and then you have this parody in charge "letting bodies pile high" and calling his Health Minister "****ing hopeless" and it barely creating a murmur... you have to wonder if we've all crossed into a different timeline, because 20 years ago watching him on HIGNFY I considered him the equivalent of the "tub of lard".

I don't know where this goes.

I listened to Morning Ireland that fateful morning when Cathal Mac Coille interviewed Cowen and watched with glee as the rats jumped in the succeeding weeks.

But, if the same standards were applied, Johnson would have never made it out of Buckingham Palace, first time 'round.

The electorate was what did for Trump. That seems to be the only way to end this.

That anyone could come here and defend this government after all that's gone on this last 2 years well... I'll have what they're having I guess.

---

The "U-turn" while totally predictable and while not incorrect to delay it, I think it was always the hubris, at every turn that winds most people up.

When everything is "world-beating" and then it falls down around you, then you have to ask yourself, "maybe we should be less on the nose about it"?

That being said, when one watches BBC or ITV's coverage of ANY game at the Euros, it's clear how some can find themselves feeling like they need to defend charlatans... and it's a perfect microcosm of where the UK is right now.