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The UK response - Part II - read OP
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Joe_ Public wrote: »Sure, god, i dont know. There must be 100s of fine consulting firms across the uk that could have done it. But what was it they were lacking? What critical layer of expertise did mckinseys have that they didnt? Tough one.
There must be 100s of tech firms could have worked on the app, but they just lacked the missing ingredient that Faculty had. Wonder what that was.
Lots of firms could have done good jobs on ppe or testing but what did they lack that the likes of Pestfix or Randox had? It'll come to me in a minute.
What did Serco have that other firms lacked when it came to the nightingale labs contract? What is it about the name of Serco ceo Rupert Soames that feels oddly familiar?
It really seems that there's a consistent pattern here, just have to work out what it is.
It's a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.0 -
Professor Moriarty wrote: »It's a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.
It's terrible because i feel like the answer is right there, staring me in the face. But i just can't seem to work it out. Stumped!0 -
Not forgetting Dyson being given an order to make ventilators, having received a call directly from Johnson himself:Joe_ Public wrote: »Sure, god, i dont know. There must be 100s of fine consulting firms across the uk that could have done it. But what was it they were lacking? What critical layer of expertise did mckinseys have that they didnt? Tough one.
There must be 100s of tech firms could have worked on the app, but they just lacked the missing ingredient that Faculty had. Wonder what that was.
Lots of firms could have done good jobs on ppe or testing but what did they lack that the likes of Pestfix or Randox had? It'll come to me in a minute.
What did Serco have that other firms lacked when it came to the nightingale labs contract? What is it about the name of Serco ceo Rupert Soames that feels oddly familiar?
It really seems that there's a consistent pattern here, just have to work out what it is.Dyson said the company had designed and built an entirely new ventilator ... since he received a call 10 days ago from UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson.0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »It's terrible because i feel like the answer is right there, staring me in the face. But i just can't seem to work it out. Stumped!
Hiding in plain sight. I'm sure the Daily Mail will get to the bottom of it and let us know.0 -
Not forgetting Dyson being given an order to make ventilators, having received a call directly from Johnson himself:
For sure. It was by no means an exhaustive list, or even any where remotely close to it.
In other semi-related news, i was half listening to Gavin Williamson on the news earlier and only perked up when i heard him use the phrase "world beating" in reference to the new education system he was designing. Those poor kids! But they're not scheduled to be tory voters for another, oh, 30 years or more, so no big deal really.0 -
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Joe_ Public wrote: »Sure, god, i dont know. There must be 100s of fine consulting firms across the uk that could have done it. But what was it they were lacking? What critical layer of expertise did mckinseys have that they didnt? Tough one.
There must be 100s of tech firms could have worked on the app, but they just lacked the missing ingredient that Faculty had. Wonder what that was.
Lots of firms could have done good jobs on ppe or testing but what did they lack that the likes of Pestfix or Randox had? It'll come to me in a minute.
What did Serco have that other firms lacked when it came to the nightingale labs contract? What is it about the name of Serco ceo Rupert Soames that feels oddly familiar?
It really seems that there's a consistent pattern here, just have to work out what it is.
Go look in the job boards and you’ll see loads and loads of jobs for relationship managers, vendor managers etc, ads for customer relationship management software (crm). And supplier relationship management (srm) tools. Yiu May have heard of sales force, they employ a few people in Ireland I believe.
Business is done on relationships and those relationships take time to build and are very valuable.
So what did McKinsey have that the others didn’t? A relationship.
In an ideal world, a full procurement process would have been carried out rather than doing this (most probably) on a time and materials basis against an already agreed rate card, but of that had happened, we would have been waiting until the new year and at the moment, time is of the essence, is it not?
McKinsey are a huge consultancy that do work for large companies, charities and lots of governments and government agencies, the fact they did this is nothing unusual and Serco, well they’ve been doing more or less nothing but government contracts for decades, so again them being chosen is nothing unusual.0 -
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Go look in the job boards and you’ll see loads and loads of jobs for relationship managers, vendor managers etc, ads for customer relationship management software (crm). And supplier relationship management (srm) tools. Yiu May have heard of sales force, they employ a few people in Ireland I believe.
Business is done on relationships and those relationships take time to build and are very valuable.
So what did McKinsey have that the others didn’t? A relationship.
In an ideal world, a full procurement process would have been carried out rather than doing this (most probably) on a time and materials basis against an already agreed rate card, but of that had happened, we would have been waiting until the new year and at the moment, time is of the essence, is it not?
McKinsey are a huge consultancy that do work for large companies, charities and lots of governments and government agencies, the fact they did this is nothing unusual and Serco, well they’ve been doing more or less nothing but government contracts for decades, so again them being chosen is nothing unusual.
Relationships! Yes, that's it. Thank you, i was struggling to join the dots but you've done it for me. Relationships ie good old fashioned etonian old boy network self serving cronyism.
Serco does indeed have a long history of serving the uk government in very lucrative and incompetent fashion - controversy over detention centres, controversy over electronic tagging, controversy over its breast cancer screening services - so naturally that litany of failure ensured it remained in the front line when there were all these juicy covid contracts to be dished out without even as much as a cursory check.
Nothing at all to be said for taking a bit of extra time to implement systems that were robust and efficient - or, strewth, that just even worked - nah, just line up all the old boys we have, eh, relationships with, give em the dosh and go off and bungle their way along with it.
Nice work if you can get it.0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »Relationships! Yes, that's it. Thank you, i was struggling to join the dots but you've done it for me. Relationships ie good old fashioned etonian old boy network self serving cronyism.
Serco does indeed have a long history of serving the uk government in very lucrative and incompetent fashion - controversy over detention centres, controversy over electronic tagging, controversy over its breast cancer screening services - so naturally that litany of failure ensured it remained in the front line when there were all these juicy covid contracts to be dished out without even as much as a cursory check.
Nothing at all to be said for taking a bit of extra time to implement systems that were robust and efficient - or, strewth, that just even worked - nah, just line up all the old boys we have, eh, relationships with, give em the dosh and go off and bungle their way along with it.
Nice work if you can get it.
So you still haven’t answered my question, who should have done it?0 -
What test and trace - maybe the organisations that are having to do it now after the failed central solution - the local authorities. I wonder what they could have achieved with the money p***ed away on consultants.
In hind sight, maybe.
But then in hindsight, there was no need to build those extra hospitals either.0 -
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So you still haven’t answered my question, who should have done it?
Sure i already answered, i dont know. I dont know who SHOULD have done it, just i know there must be literally scores of firms who COULD have done it. Like all the government contracts handed out, including the ones to Dom Cummings mates.0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »Sure, god, i dont know. There must be 100s of fine consulting firms across the uk that could have done it. But what was it they were lacking? What critical layer of expertise did mckinseys have that they didnt? Tough one.
There must be 100s of tech firms could have worked on the app, but they just lacked the missing ingredient that Faculty had. Wonder what that was.
Lots of firms could have done good jobs on ppe or testing but what did they lack that the likes of Pestfix or Randox had? It'll come to me in a minute.
What did Serco have that other firms lacked when it came to the nightingale labs contract? What is it about the name of Serco ceo Rupert Soames that feels oddly familiar?
It really seems that there's a consistent pattern here, just have to work out what it is.
Think this is my favourite post on here0 -
The issue isn't so much as which company got the work but how they got it and why!McKinsey are a huge consultancy that do work for large companies, charities and lots of governments and government agencies, the fact they did this is nothing unusual and Serco, well they’ve been doing more or less nothing but government contracts for decades, so again them being chosen is nothing unusual.
Isnt that the purpose of a tendering process? To find a company that is able to meet and exceed the requirements at a cost efficient price?So you still haven’t answered my question, who should have done it?
Over the last number of months there have been numerous high value public contracts given to Tory linked companies who show no commercial and/or resourcing advantages over competitors other than they are somehow linked to the Tory party.
It's unfortunate that the usual suspects are so quick to defend these clearly dodgy awardings - putting the party before the people!0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »Sure i already answered, i dont know. I dont know who SHOULD have done it, just i know there must be literally scores of firms who COULD have done it. Like all the government contracts handed out, including the ones to Dom Cummings mates.
So you don’t know the answer only that something something Dominic Cummings.
Hurling from the ditch is easier than coming up with a solution I guess.0 -
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Seth Brundle wrote: »The issue isn't so much as which company got the work but how they got it and why!
Isnt that the purpose of a tendering process? To find a company that is able to meet and exceed the requirements at a cost efficient price?
Over the last number of months there have been numerous high value public contracts given to Tory linked companies who show no commercial and/or resourcing advantages over competitors other than they are somehow linked to the Tory party.
It's unfortunate that the usual suspects are so quick to defend these clearly dodgy awardings - putting the party before the people!
Tendering processes are great if you have time.
There would already be a framework agreement in place with an agreed rate card, so easier to crack on with that, if you are confident that the consultant can do the work.
It isn’t so much about defending what has happened, there should be an open discussion and enquiry post all of this to ensure the appropriate steps were taken, but I can fully understand why the government took the steps it has.
The fact that the person who was earmarked to run this (who had already been chair of the NHS improvement board for three years) worked with the consultancy fifteen years ago should be examined, but in my opinion, it will be little more than something the press can **** stir about. She has an MBA from Harvard, was on the fast track at Tesco before Sainsburys head hunted her and she was tipped to be CEO there before Charles Dunstone stoke her for Talk Talk.
She is no fool.0 -
BonnieSituation wrote: »I'm impressed just how well you do oblivious and support the team no matter what.
I’m impressed with your ability to write so many posts and add nothing to a thread.0 -
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BonnieSituation wrote: »Oh Aegir, never change. I'm guaranteed a few laughs a day with your sycophantic witterings.
Still nothing to add?0 -
Still nothing to add?
Just as much as your goodself. You've had a busy day.
I'll wait til tomorrow morning to see what follows from Wednesday's inept UKGov output.
That you see no thread of corruption at all these last few months and are willing to keep up the defence to such a degree is very odd.
Little to add to today's lot. You have done sterling work mind, fighting the good fight. Get some rest.0 -
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BonnieSituation wrote: »Just as much as your goodself. You've had a busy day.
I'll wait til tomorrow morning to see what follows from Wednesday's inept UKGov output.
That you see no thread of corruption at all these last few months and are willing to keep up the defence to such a degree is very odd.
Little to add to today's lot. You have done sterling work mind, fighting the good fight. Get some rest.
Still nothing to add.
Go on, give it a try and add something to the thread, or any thread for that matter, that is worth discussing.0 -
So you don’t know the answer only that something something Dominic Cummings.
Hurling from the ditch is easier than coming up with a solution I guess.
A solution to what? To doling out billions of pounds in contracts to often incompetent or worse firms on the flimsy pretext we dont have time to find anyone else so we'll just give it to our pals we always look after even though they're probably as likely as not to make a total bags of it? Yes, i have a solution to that. Stop doing it. Cease and desist with immediate effect.0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »A solution to what? To doling out billions of pounds in contracts to often incompetent or worse firms on the flimsy pretext we dont have time to find anyone else so we'll just give it to our pals we always look after even though they're probably as likely as not to make a total bags of it? Yes, i have a solution to that. Stop doing it. Cease and desist with immediate effect.
So they should have stopped any contact tracing and buying of PPE?0 -
Join Date:Posts: 72938
BonnieSituation wrote: »I'm impressed just how well you do oblivious and support the team no matter what.I’m impressed with your ability to write so many posts and add nothing to a thread.BonnieSituation wrote: »Oh Aegir, never change. I'm guaranteed a few laughs a day with your sycophantic witterings.Still nothing to add?
Give it a rest the pair of you.Back to the topic or I'll remove posting privileges hereStill nothing to add.
Go on, give it a try and add something to the thread, or any thread for that matter, that is worth discussing.0 -
So they should have stopped any contact tracing and buying of PPE?
Like, eh? There have been scores of reports of firms and individuals, with experience in the field, who say they contacted government departments with offers to deliver ppe and never even got the courtesy of a reply. Literally, scores of such reports. Meanwhile, the likes of Pestfix, with experience in pest control, and hardly any assets or employees, gets a multi million pound contract. Or our pals Ayanda, a £250m contract to flunk its lines when the time came to deliver. I guess this is just what hsppens when you are building up "relationships", in it for the long haul for better or worse, no matter how many billions spaffed up against a wall.
You mentioned earlier about hindsight and contact tracing. Not so. This was being said months ago, both here and elsewhere. Local health authorities were pleading for ages to be given the resources to handle outbreaks in their own areas, didnt take a genius to figure out that was the way to go. But for reasons they will ultimately need to explain, England rigidly stuck to its centralised system, froze the councils out and handed Serco many millions to build a testing and tracing system that was racked with problems and has never fully worked from the beginning. Incompetence and cronyism on an epic scale that has cost lives and, one way or another, will ultimately have to be answered for.0 -
could you provide some evidence to back up your claim that she is "Compliant with receiving direction from Cummings"?
Do you have evidence that she doesn't take her order from Cummings?I’m impressed with your ability to write so many posts and add nothing to a thread.
Pot, meet kettle, see below as an exampleStill nothing to add?
There will be missteps all the way until a new government or PM and cabinet takes over. This will happen because those in cabinet are appointed because they are loyal to Johnson and Brexit and not because they are the brightest or most talented. The warning signs were there before Johnson took over (£40m spent on the garden bridge, Boris Island airport) so you cannot even claim to not have known. The fact there is apparent upset about the Withdrawal Agreement that Johnson claimed is his oven-ready deal that he negotiated should have had the warning lights flashing.
The rush to defend any missteps is funny to see here. I find it fascinating that any argument will be used to justify the decisions made by this disaster of a government. I am sure Aegir and theological would be out to tell us as well that those predicting 40% downgrade of A-level scores were wrong as well because the real number is 39.1% and they weren't downgraded but they were standardised as well to boot. We all know 39.1% isn't close to 40% so anyone pointing that was just wrong.
I will give Cummings credit, he is very good as seeing the truth and posting about it, thread
https://twitter.com/ianbirrell/status/1295782385980776449?s=20Some quotes from self-declared superforecaster Dominic Cummings that are interesting in light of the PM's refusal to hire anyone that challenges him and this government's shambolic incompetence on everything from protecting people in pandemic to the exam fiasco
1) 'Everyone is discouraged from telling the truth to important people. It isn’t a culture in which you admit mistakes. There’s no grip, no focus.' He was attacking Cameron's coalition but sounds familiar, doesn't it?
2) 'The people at the apex of political power (elected and unelected) are far from the best people in the world in terms of goals, intelligence, ethics, or competence.' Yes, his government proves this point daily...
3) He complained about 'largely incompetent political decision-makers making the same sort of mistake repeatedly and wasting vast resources'. True, true...
4) 'We prefer to enhance prestige rather than face reality and admit ignorance or error.' Yes, this is the same man who pretended he drove to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight and works as chief strategist for a government that still has Gavin Williamson overseeing schools
5) 'It is depressingly possible that those who climb to the top of the hierarchy are more likely to focus only on their own interests.' Point proven.
6) 'MPs and officials have to make constant forecasts but have little idea about how to make them, how the statistics and computer models underlying these forecasts work, or how to judge the reliability of their own views.' Err...like with exam result algorithms?
7) 'Political institutions tend to become dominated by narcissists. Elected representatives are often chosen from a subset of people who have very high opinions of themselves.' Dom knows Boris all too well...
8) 'Whitehall suffers from a lack of internal mechanisms to enforce honesty about errors.' Whitehall? Or Downing Street...
9) 'Many accident reports, from air crashes to Fukushima, show that reflexive obedience to the chief lies behind fatal errors.' Yes, this was from the guy behind a government that places total obedience before competence and has driven out critics.
10) 'Cameron regards his job as like a steward in charge of the ‘ship of state’ – his job is not to crash it into the rocks.' If only Boris Johnson would see his job as avoiding crashing into rocks....
11) 'No 10 and the Cabinet Office are themselves a major source of chaos so it no surprise that the rest of government is in permanent omnishambles.' He was talking about the Coalition but certainly true today...
12) 'The occupants of No 10, like Tolstoy’s characters in War and Peace, are blown around by forces they do not comprehend.' (See 11 above )
13) 'Our leaders are like 19th Century Germans who had lost religion of whom Nietzsche said ‘they merely register their existence in the world with a kind of dumb amazement’. They carry on in a state of ‘dumb amazement’ without realising how absurd their situation' (See 11 again)
14) 'I don't want confident public school bluffers.' Most definitely agreed after seeing Boris in Downing Street.
15) 'We want to improve performance and make me much less important — and within a year largely redundant.' Four months to go since this was written in January (although performance seems to be deteriorating)0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »Like, eh? There have been scores of reports of firms and individuals, with experience in the field, who say they contacted government departments with offers to deliver ppe and never even got the courtesy of a reply. Literally, scores of such reports.
and is that still the case, or are you basing this on reports from April still?Joe_ Public wrote: »You mentioned earlier about hindsight and contact tracing. Not so. This was being said months ago, both here and elsewhere. Local health authorities were pleading for ages to be given the resources to handle outbreaks in their own areas, didnt take a genius to figure out that was the way to go. But for reasons they will ultimately need to explain, England rigidly stuck to its centralised system, froze the councils out and handed Serco many millions to build a testing and tracing system that was racked with problems and has never fully worked from the beginning. Incompetence and cronyism on an epic scale that has cost lives and, one way or another, will ultimately have to be answered for.
Interesting read https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/06/29/chris-ham-the-government-should-give-local-leaders-control-over-nhs-test-and-trace/Dido Harding was appointed to take charge of NHS Test and Trace in May as the easing of the lockdown approached. She immediately appointed experienced leaders from the NHS and local government to reshape the service. These leaders have done so by seeking to give the NHS more say over testing and local government a leadership role on contract tracing in a reverse takeover of a service that had previously been developed from the top down.
But I guess she only did that because Dominic Harding told her to:rolleyes:0 -
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Do you have evidence that she doesn't take her order from Cummings?
Pot, meet kettle, see below as an example
There will be missteps all the way until a new government or PM and cabinet takes over. This will happen because those in cabinet are appointed because they are loyal to Johnson and Brexit and not because they are the brightest or most talented. The warning signs were there before Johnson took over (£40m spent on the garden bridge, Boris Island airport) so you cannot even claim to not have known. The fact there is apparent upset about the Withdrawal Agreement that Johnson claimed is his oven-ready deal that he negotiated should have had the warning lights flashing.
The rush to defend any missteps is funny to see here. I find it fascinating that any argument will be used to justify the decisions made by this disaster of a government. I am sure Aegir and theological would be out to tell us as well that those predicting 40% downgrade of A-level scores were wrong as well because the real number is 39.1% and they weren't downgraded but they were standardised as well to boot. We all know 39.1% isn't close to 40% so anyone pointing that was just wrong.
I will give Cummings credit, he is very good as seeing the truth and posting about it, thread
https://twitter.com/ianbirrell/status/1295782385980776449?s=20
"We want to improve importance and make me much less important".
Remember, this is an unelected advisor.0 -
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Latest KCL figures are at 1214 cases per day down from over 1400 last week. Total cases of symptomatic coronavirus are at the lowest yet at 20,119.
This is huge progress.
Edit: The UK remains on the bottom end of ECDC incidence table.0 -
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That argument works really well in the Atheist forum :rolleyes:
How do you propose someone provides proof that Dido Harding is waiting for direction from Cummings when he has purged anyone that speaks against him and anyone that opposes his and Johnson's view are chucked out of the party? Surely you could make the deduction that anyone still in a high profile position working with Johnson and Cummings are there because they will not rock the boat.
As for the hiring of Harding, luckily the UK has an Anti-Corruption Champion to look at how Dido Harding, a friend of Matt Hancock was hired to run the new Health Body without any experience in Public Health or epidemics or interviews to find the right person. She may be the right person, but we will now never know because there was no search done.
Step up John Penrose MP, husband of Dido Harding. You cannot be comfortable with this, right?
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1295987845157486593?s=200 -
In hind sight, maybe.
But then in hindsight, there was no need to build those extra hospitals either.
I cannot believe that those in charge wasn't aware that adding 4000 new critical beds that require more resources than a ward was never going to be used because said resources wasn't available.
NHS workforce being ‘hollowed out’ by registered nurse shortagesIn the first quarter of 2018-19, nurse vacancies reached 44,000. According to the report, this number could spiral to 100,000 in a decade.
The nursing crisis has been a major point of interest for political parties in the run up to the general election.
The Conservatives have promised 50,000 new nurses and Labour are committed to reinstating the nursing bursary.
Also, they didn't need the beds because they discharged people into care homes without proper care. I find it incredible that nobody who made these decisions has lost their jobs yet. NZ Health minister breaks lockdown rules and he loses his job, but now is not the time for international comparisons I suppose.0 -
and is that still the case, or are you basing this on reports from April still?
Interesting read https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/06/29/chris-ham-the-government-should-give-local-leaders-control-over-nhs-test-and-trace/
But I guess she only did that because Dominic Harding told her to:rolleyes:
1. What has "still the case" got to do with it? We're talking about lucrative contracts that were awarded months ago, often to firms that had no apparent qualifications other than having the usual quota of old boy tory connections. While 1000s of others were just simply ignored. "Still the case" has zero relevance here.
2. A track and trace operation, talking about empowering local councils, that only started sharing data with them a few weeks back, IN AUGUST. A test and trace operation so brilliant and successful that some local councils decided to bin it and set up their own systems less than two weeks ago.
"Dominic Harrison, Blackburn with Darwen council's director of public health, said: "We are now developing our own local contact tracing system. The national system is simply not tracing enough cases and contacts fast enough."
Yep, nice going Dido. Time you had a promotion.0 -
How do you propose someone provides proof that Dido Harding is waiting for direction from Cummings when he has purged anyone that speaks against him and anyone that opposes his and Johnson's view are chucked out of the party? Surely you could make the deduction that anyone still in a high profile position working with Johnson and Cummings are there because they will not rock the boat.
maybe ask NHS_Susan she may know?As for the hiring of Harding, luckily the UK has an Anti-Corruption Champion to look at how Dido Harding, a friend of Matt Hancock was hired to run the new Health Body without any experience in Public Health or epidemics or interviews to find the right person. She may be the right person, but we will now never know because there was no search done.
Step up John Penrose MP, husband of Dido Harding. You cannot be comfortable with this, right?
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1295987845157486593?s=20
so the woman who ran NHS Improvement for three years has no experience in public Health?
Obviously she was given her peerage by David Cameron under orders from Cummings and Theresa May only put in charge of NHS Improvement because she takes orders from Cummings as well:rolleyes:
****ing hell, do people actually read what they write on here or just rant without thinking?0 -
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Join Date:Posts: 72938
I instructed the 2 posters to get back on topic. It applies equally to everyone in the thread and seeking a response to a post where I've told the poster to drop it is also off topic (and they would be violating my instruction if they do respond)Do you have evidence that she doesn't take her order from Cummings?
Pot, meet kettle, see below as an example0 -
we have covered this numerous times.Joe_ Public wrote: »1. What has "still the case" got to do with it? We're talking about lucrative contracts that were awarded months ago, often to firms that had no apparent qualifications other than having the usual quota of old boy tory connections. While 1000s of others were just simply ignored. "Still the case" has zero relevance here.
Can you show that these contracts were lucrative? can you show that they over paid for the goods? can you show that the firms complaining about not being contacted were not also given orders?
We know very little about most of these contracts or what happened, but as usual, the answer seems to be "Dominic Cummings".Joe_ Public wrote: »2. A track and trace operation, talking about empowering local councils, that only started sharing data with them a few weeks back, IN AUGUST. A test and trace operation so brilliant and successful that some local councils decided to bin it and set up their own systems less than two weeks ago.
"Dominic Harrison, Blackburn with Darwen council's director of public health, said: "We are now developing our own local contact tracing system. The national system is simply not tracing enough cases and contacts fast enough."
Yep, nice going Dido. Time you had a promotion.
They haven't binned it though, have they? The local and national systems work together to speed up contact. Given language barriers that seem to be a big part of the outbreak in Blackburn, that makes perfect sense.0 -
we have covered this numerous times.
Can you show that these contracts were lucrative? can you show that they over paid for the goods? can you show that the firms complaining about not being contacted were not also given orders?
We know very little about most of these contracts or what happened, but as usual, the answer seems to be "Dominic Cummings".
They haven't binned it though, have they? The local and national systems work together to speed up contact. Given language barriers that seem to be a big part of the outbreak in Blackburn, that makes perfect sense.
1. I agree with you. We know little enough about how the process worked or how so many contracts ended up in the hands of tory connected firms, several of whom have been mired in controversy. What we do know is likely the mere tip of the iceberg. I expect this admirably open government, with never anything to hide, will be announcing a full independent inquiry into how this entirely unfortunate and unforeseen train of events happened to take place any day now.
2. "Oldham – the site of a major COVID outbreak – had to build its own contact tracing system and is, according to Council Deputy Leader Arooj Shah, “already looking at what vital services we may have to cut to cover our COVID costs because the government hasn’t given us what it said it would".
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/government-u-turning-on-the-u-turn-on-local-covid-contact-tracing/
There are many Oldhams across the uk, both labour and tory led councils, repeatedly stating that they were "going it alone" on contact tracing because the national system had failed. Up to only a couple of weeks back, councils had to employ people to spend their days ringing around care homes to find out how many had tested positive because the central system would not share that data with them. Even now, local councils are not entirely happy with the range of data they are getting. Six months into the crisis!
Think about that - councils, already stretched to the bare minumum by a decade of cuts and austerity, having to spend precious resources in order to get data that could have been furnished to them with one click of a computer mouse. Of all the elements of their failed system, that is the one that stands out for me as the most stupid and mind boggling of all.0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »1. I agree with you. We know little enough about how the process worked or how so many contracts ended up in the hands of tory connected firms, several of whom have been mired in controversy. What we do know is likely the mere tip of the iceberg. I expect this admirably open government, with never anything to hide, will be announcing a full independent inquiry into how this entirely unfortunate and unforeseen train of events happened to take place any day now.
2. "Oldham – the site of a major COVID outbreak – had to build its own contact tracing system and is, according to Council Deputy Leader Arooj Shah, “already looking at what vital services we may have to cut to cover our COVID costs because the government hasn’t given us what it said it would".
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/government-u-turning-on-the-u-turn-on-local-covid-contact-tracing/
There are many Oldhams across the uk, both labour and tory led councils, repeatedly stating that they were "going it alone" on contact tracing because the national system had failed. Up to only a couple of weeks back, councils had to employ people to spend their days ringing around care homes to find out how many had tested positive because the central system would not share that data with them. Even now, local councils are not entirely happy with the range of data they are getting. Six months into the crisis!
Think about that - councils, already stretched to the bare minumum by a decade of cuts and austerity, having to spend precious resources in order to get data that could have been furnished to them with one click of a computer mouse. Of all the elements of their failed system, that is the one that stands out for me as the most stupid and mind boggling of all.
Are you seriously quoting open democracy?
What next, using the daily mail in a discussion on immigration? Your concern is touching though.0 -
Are you seriously quoting open democracy?
What next, using the daily mail in a discussion on immigration? Your concern is touching though.
I'm much much more interested in the results. Namely that the UK has an infection rate a quarter of what it was at the start of June.
Apparently according to Joe_Public the numbers are not much lower than what it was!Joe_ Public wrote: »Ignored what exactly? I said i was truly happy if uk numbers were showing good trends and will be great if that continues. That said, the numbers arent all that low, its just other European countries have experienced surges to varying degrees, including ireland. According to latest ons figures, there are still an estimated 3,800 daily cases in the uk. Its not that much lower than it was. And it is under control in Leicester now. Lockdowns work, but i think we knew that already.
I'd have greater confidence now that local councils are being empowered to tackle local outbreaks, though it is going to take more time for that process to become fully effective. Of course, why this had to take over 5 months, countless billions and lives lost to finally become policy is pretty much a national scandal but i know you will ignore that so pointless talking more about it.
As for Dido Harding, I'm struggling to think how the head of any £10bn operation could report with a 56% success rate and expect not to be called a failure. Actually mind boggling, that one.
If thats what £10bn buys you in modern Britain, I'd be a little concerned about the future quite frankly.
Sometimes you have to wonder if people are just criticising the UK for the sake of it, particularly when it is doing comparatively better per 100,000 than other large European countries in terms of new cases.0 -
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Are you seriously quoting open democracy?
What next, using the daily mail in a discussion on immigration? Your concern is touching though.
You know, i could have linked to the Telegraph, or probably 20 more right across the media spectrum, reporting exactly the same thing, but I'm glad i didnt as I'd hate to have deprived you of your blistering shoot the messenger response. Which, in a godwinesque kind of way, merely indicates we have reached the end of the road in this particular discussion.0 -
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theological wrote: »I'm much much more interested in the results. Namely that the UK has an infection rate a quarter of what it was at the start of June.
Apparently according to Joe_Public the numbers are not much lower than what it was!
Sometimes you have to wonder if people are just criticising the UK for the sake of it, particularly when it is doing comparatively better per 100,000 than other large European countries in terms of new cases.
Somethings obviously changing when the previously scorned international comparisons suddenly become the flavour of the day.
Sure, I already said it's great if the uk is doing comparitively well and hope that lasts for them. The ons latest figures are 3,800 daily cases. Its still not THAT low, thats all I'm saying.
And out of curiosity, why did you pick early june as a comparison? I mean, why not go all in and pick early April as an arbitrary point to compare. But why not, say, early July? Would it make more or less sense to compare the figures now to early july than before?0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »Somethings obviously changing when the previously scorned international comparisons suddenly become the flavour of the day.
Sure, I already said it's great if the uk is doing comparitively well and hope that lasts for them. The ons latest figures are 3,800 daily cases. Its still not THAT low, thats all I'm saying.
And out of curiosity, why did you pick early june as a comparison? I mean, why not go all in and pick early April as an arbitrary point to compare. But why not, say, early July? Would it make more or less sense to compare the figures now to early july than before?
The figures are also a reduction on early July. You can see this for yourself on the KCL data. You didn't offer a time frame in your original complaint that the figures weren't substantially lower.
The fact that you seem to be obsessively critical of the UK when things in the country you are living in seem to be worse is peculiar.0 -
theological wrote: »I'm much much more interested in the results. Namely that According to one model the UK has an infection rate a quarter of what it was at the start of June.
Apparently according to Joe_Public the numbers are not much lower than what it was!
Sometimes you have to wonder if people are just criticising the UK for the sake of it, particularly when it is doing comparatively better per 100,000 than other large European countries in terms of new cases.
There fixed that for you.
Do you maybe think that you are showing some signs of confirmation bias?0 -
theological wrote: »The figures are also a reduction on early July. You can see this for yourself on the KCL data. You didn't offer a time frame in your original complaint that the figures weren't substantially lower.
The fact that you seem to be obsessively critical of the UK when things in the country you are living in seem to be worse is peculiar.
Yeah, I'm not being critical, I'm just posting official figures.
According to ons: in early july there were 25,000 new cases per week which we can roughly translate as just under 4,000 per day. Latest ons estimate: 3,800 new cases daily.
I know you prefer the other metric, so lets look at that. On 16 July, according to kcl zoe thing, there were 1,472 new cases daily. I forget what it is now, a bit lower i think, not staggeringly so.
Not being at all critical, was just curious why you picked early june as a point of comparison. That's all.0 -
Joe_ Public wrote: »Yeah, I'm not being critical, I'm just posting official figures.
According to ons: in early july there were 25,000 new cases per week which we can roughly translate as just under 4,000 per day. Latest ons estimate: 3,800 new cases daily.
I know you prefer the other metric, so lets look at that. On 16 July, according to kcl zoe thing, there were 1,472 new cases daily. I forget what it is now, a bit lower i think, not staggeringly so.
Not being at all critical, was just curious why you picked early june as a point of comparison. That's all.
Well...theological wrote: »Latest KCL figures are at 1214 cases per day down from over 1400 last week. Total cases of symptomatic coronavirus are at the lowest yet at 20,119.
This is huge progress.
Edit: The UK remains on the bottom end of ECDC incidence table.0 -
BonnieSituation wrote: »Well...
Joe_Public didn't define a time frame in his original post. In any case the numbers continue to show a decline with an R of 0.8 which again is good going compared to many other countries in Europe.
Yet Joe_Public is characterising this as a failure. How bizarre. It's also bizarre that he's so interested in the UK considering what is happening at home!0 -
This is related to the UK response to Covid-19 by highlighting how the government does things post Covid-19,
Firm linked to Gove and Cummings hired to work with Ofqual on A-levelsA company run by long–term associates of Michael Gove and Dominic Cummings has been working behind the scenes with the exams agency Ofqual on its disastrous strategy for determining A-level results, the Guardian can reveal.
Public First, a policy and research firm owned by James Frayne and Rachel Wolf, who both formerly worked for Gove, has been involved on the project with Ofqual since June after being granted a contract that was not put out to competitive tender.
Details of the contract have not been made public and Ofqual declined to say how much public money had been spent hiring Public First.
...
Wolf, who co-wrote the Conservative party’s 2019 election manifesto, owns Public First with Frayne, whose work alongside Cummings – the prime minister’s senior adviser – dates back to Eurosceptic campaigning 20 years ago. In 2011 Frayne was appointed the Department for Education’s director of communications when Gove was education secretary and Cummings was his chief political adviser.
Its interesting that Covid-19 seems to have given the government the leeway to just give out contracts without tender, even if it is not directly related to Covid-19. You could sell the need not to have tenders in regards to PPE at the height of the pandemic, but why is this continuing?
And in before Aegir, we do not know if this company isn't the best qualified to do the work, they well could be. But you don't know if you don't put it out to tender. And once again it is about who you know instead of if you are any good to provide the work.0 -
Seems like they have links to Labour as well:Natascha Engel
Natascha Engel is a Partner at Public First. As Labour MP in a former coal-mining constituency from 2005 to 2017, she specialised in energy and infrastructure policy before becoming Deputy Speaker of the House of Commons, a role in which she developed a deep understanding of how Parliamentary procedure works in practice. After leaving Parliament, she was appointed the Government’s first Commissioner for Shale Gas to liaise between local communities, regulators, industry and government. Natascha has many years of political campaign experience, from traditional trade union organising and mobilising to playing a critical role in the Labour Party’s winning 2001 Key Seat strategy and continues to take a keen interest in Labour Party policy.
And their head of education advised Labour when they were in governmentJonathan Simons
Jonathan Simons is a Director at Public First and Head of the Education Practice. Jonathan has spent the last fifteen years advising government and external organisations on strategy, communications and public policy. He joined Public First from the global education foundation the Varkey Foundation, where he was Director of Policy & Research. Jonathan has also worked as Director of Strategy and Market Development at Serco, Head of Education in the Prime Minister’s Strategy Unit, when Gordon Brown was Prime Minister, and also Head of Education at the Policy Exchange think tank.
Looks like they have a quite a bit of experience when it comes to education:Luke Tryl
Luke is a Director at Public First and leads our Charity and Public Sector Practice. He joined Public First from the New Schools Network where he was the charity’s Director. While at the NSN, Luke worked to reposition the organisation’s messaging and rejuvenate the free schools programme through a series of policy asks, many of which have now been adopted by Boris Johnson’s Government.
Luke moved NSN having been Director of Strategy at Ofsted where he was a member of the executive board, and managing the research, strategy and communications teams. While at Ofsted he oversaw creation of the regulator’s new strategy and played a key role in the development of the new Education Inspection Framework. Before Ofsted, Luke was Special Adviser to Nicky Morgan during her time as Education Secretary, where he drove the implementation of her policy priorities and acted as her chief spokesperson. He was also Head of Education at Stonewall, where he ran their ground-breaking campaign to tackle homophobic bullying in schools.
But OMG DOMINIC CUMMINGS0 -
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