Ms. McHugh and national broadcaster

topper75

Earthhorse wrote: »

Some people just have a certain attraction or charisma or whatever you want to call it and she clearly did.

And if the electorate have a different take on it ... publish the legend?

LawBoy2018

I really like Saoirse. I actually gave her my first preference vote in February. There is definitely a certain demographic that hates everything she stands for, but I think she embodies how a large percentage of young voters feel about Ireland and our political system. I would rather see a young, idealistic, radical woman representing my views in the Dáil, rather than a dozey Eamon Ryan catching a few undeserved Zzz's before he's awoken to vote against workers rights.

Also, Saoirse received more first preference votes than Neasa Hourigan, Roderic O'Gorman, Ossian Smith, Marc Ó Cathasaigh, Brian Leddin & Patrick Costello, in pobably the most difficult constituency in Ireland to break through as a Green TD. She didn't benefit from the 'vote left' movement like some of her more suburban colleagues, making her feat all the more impressive. Don't be so disengenous and cheap by labelling her as a 'serial loser'. The only losers are the ones too cowardly to ever put themselves forward like she did and instead sit on Boards all day whinging and chatting **** about TDs.

MFPM

Irishman80 wrote: »

I generally vote on actual policy recommendations from politicians and not on fancy marketing buzzwords that are often used by people whose policy stance is either incoherent or will not sell with the general public.

I'm also from a working class background. Transferring billions overseas to poorer countries while importing millions of "climate refugees" is not a good policy for an Irish working class person to be voting for. Shutting down industries and jobs for " climate justice" is not good for working class people.

Also, its demeaning to people like me to hear these champagne socialists shouting about giving me free stuff. I dont want free stuff. Just a fair shot is all.

Ahhh, I see, you're one of those....at least you revealed yourself quickly.

MFPM

Water John wrote: »

Did she pick this time to make the Green leader election announcement as uncomfortable as possible for the selected leader?
Will the first Q at the press conf be about Saoirse?

No, she said she would leave at the conclusion of the leadership contest, it has concluded and she has left.

MFPM

keano_afc wrote: »

Who are these "right wing parties" that you're referring to?

Try a little harder...

Poor_old_gill

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

I really like Saoirse. I actually gave her my first preference vote in February. There is definitely a certain demographic that hates everything she stands for, but I think she embodies how a large percentage of young voters feel about Ireland and our political system. I would rather see a young, idealistic, radical woman representing my views in the Dáil, rather than a dozey Eamon Ryan catching a few undeserved Zzz's before he's awoken to vote against workers rights.

Also, Saoirse received more first preference votes than Neasa Hourigan, Roderic O'Gorman, Ossian Smith, Marc Ó Cathasaigh, Brian Leddin & Patrick Costello, in pobably the most difficult constituency in Ireland to break through as a Green TD. She didn't benefit from the 'vote left' movement like some of her more suburban colleagues, making her feat all the more impressive. Don't be so disengenous and cheap by labelling her as a 'serial loser'. The only losers are the ones too cowardly to ever put themselves forward like she did and instead sit on Boards all day whinging and chatting **** about TDs.

Patronising nonsense.

The fact that people are questioning why she is getting so much airtime is completely normal - she's a politician who has never won an election.

There are plenty of politicians who have fairly strong track records who dont get a quarter of her airtime - people are baffled by this.

If she was successful at what she did then maybe but thus far she hasnt been.

Fabio

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

I really like Saoirse. I actually gave her my first preference vote in February. There is definitely a certain demographic that hates everything she stands for, but I think she embodies how a large percentage of young voters feel about Ireland and our political system. I would rather see a young, idealistic, radical woman representing my views in the Dáil, rather than a dozey Eamon Ryan catching a few undeserved Zzz's before he's awoken to vote against workers rights.

Also, Saoirse received more first preference votes than Neasa Hourigan, Roderic O'Gorman, Ossian Smith, Marc Ó Cathasaigh, Brian Leddin & Patrick Costello, in pobably the most difficult constituency in Ireland to break through as a Green TD. She didn't benefit from the 'vote left' movement like some of her more suburban colleagues, making her feat all the more impressive. Don't be so disengenous and cheap by labelling her as a 'serial loser'. The only losers are the ones too cowardly to ever put themselves forward like she did and instead sit on Boards all day whinging and chatting **** about TDs.

That's a fair point. Not a big fan of her but this is a good post in a thread of mud.

topper75

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Don't be so disengenous and cheap by labelling her as a 'serial loser'. The only losers are the ones too cowardly to ever put themselves forward like she did and instead sit on Boards all day whinging and chatting **** about TDs.

Ah now! Sounds like you are questioning why people are daring to question.

Two questions again for your good self - have you ever had a negative opinion of an author's work? have you ever published a book yourself?

Anyway - we can simultaneously applaud Saoirse having the gumption to put herself forward and at the same time wonder about media fascination with her when she has not been successful. Not mutually exclusive.

Irishman80

MFPM wrote: »

Ahhh, I see, you're one of those....at least you revealed yourself quickly.

One of what exactly?

A person who understands that the neoliberal ideas of Reagonism and Thatcherism (free movement of labour, capital, goods, and services) actually undermines the working class while enriching the 1%. That type of person.

You sound like Saorise. Another champagne socialist who doesn't know what he is talking about.

KyussB

KyussB wrote: »

They are one of the most anti-austerity parties in Europe - they literally tanked their countries economy fighting against austerity, before succumbing...

when your argument does not do the thing you think it does........

LawBoy2018

topper75 wrote: »

Ah now! Sounds like you are questioning why people are daring to question.

Two questions again for your good self - have you ever had a negative opinion of an author's work? have you ever published a book yourself?

Anyway - we can simultaneously applaud Saoirse having the gumption to put herself forward and at the same time wonder about media fascination with her when she has not been successful. Not mutually exclusive.

Where did I say that people aren't within their rights to question the amount of airtime she gets? I'm referring to the unjustified derogatory mudslinging I've read throughout this thread.

LawBoy2018

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Where did I say that people aren't within their rights to question the amount of airtime she gets? I'm referring to the unjustified derogatory mudslinging I've read throughout this thread.

aw boo hoo ffs

politics is about getting things done and its about popularity as well as substance as well as know-how as well as compromise as well as some people not liking you and being able to say so

politicians should not have fanboys and should not want fanboys and you are behaving like a fanboy

saoirse was a breath of fresh air but did herself no credit at all in her behaviour/performance in the GE debates and should not at this stage be getting such breathless attn from rte or any other platform of note until she herself actually shows that she can work with ireland as it is and not as she demands it to be.

shes intelligent and likeable and i bear her no ill-will but the last thing she needs if she is serious about making a political impact is a gang of "how dare you" getting sobby on her behalf when people want to know what, exactly, she is going to do for them and why they should listen.

Yurt2

Irishman80 wrote: »

I still sense there's a rich Daddy around somewhere too.

She's from Achill. Not exactly Knightsbridge.

Saoirse's thoughtcrime here seems to be she's young, female, and holds opinions.

Her poltics are not for me, but she's done nothing to deserve some of the ire directed at her in this thread. How very dare someone have a master's degree and move into politics at a young age.

Yurt!

Yurt! wrote: »

Saoirse's thoughtcrime here seems to be she's young, female, and holds opinions.

cmon now

the most basic and persistent tactic of the harder left on this board is to sit waiting and seething for whatever they can perceive as a discriminatory slight and make it all about that

this and most criticism of saoirse has been of substance and most defence of her points to her idealism - again we all have ideals- and then sprints headlong into trying to make it about her gender or youth.

this thread has in no way raised the issue of her gender.

all politicians get hit with the brickbats.

in looking to demand a politician gets kidglove treatment because of immutable characteristics, you arent imo making a great case for their actual abilities and you arent imo helping the cause for equality at all.

awec

The comment about the path to a free and just society not being in electoral politics is an incredibly naive statement to make and will surely be thrown in her face if she ever decides to run again.

MFPM

Irishman80 wrote: »

One of what exactly?

A person who understands that the neoliberal ideas of Reagonism and Thatcherism (free movement of labour, capital, goods, and services) actually undermines the working class while enriching the 1%. That type of person.

You sound like Saorise. Another champagne socialist who doesn't know what he is talking about.

Of course NL is about the 1%, that's precisely what people like Saoirse are campaigning against. The difference between her, I and people like you is that we focus our ire on those in power not the victims of neoliberalism, such as the 'climate refugees' who are allegedly being imported here.

topper75

awec wrote: »

The comment about the path to a free and just society not being in electoral politics is an incredibly naive statement to make and will surely be thrown in her face if she ever decides to run again.

I see she has defended this by claiming that people are conflating electoral politics with democracy. If I wasn't confused before, I certainly am now.

Now, from a recent google at lunch, there are many others in my 'dock' alongside RTÉ so I might have to change my thread title

The bald fact remains that she is an unsuccessful candidate for a minor party and her quitting the party is somehow newsworthy despite there not even being a wikipedia article for the lass. I'm no closer to understanding why. Help me understand.

Earthhorse

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Yes but we are back to the chicken & egg situation here, which is alluded to in the name of the thread.

This thread only exists because people can't understand why she gets airtime on RTE- the people posting on her don't think it's charisma and cant understand why.

This thread more or less invalidates RTE's opinion that she is popular

To the best of my recollection she appeared on a debate in which she put Peter Casey in his place and came across as a breath of fresh air. This saw her gain a reputation as a rising star in the Green Party.

That reputation didn't translate into electoral success but her media success was still strong.

News of her quitting the Greens is on the front of The Irish Times, The Irish Independent and The Irish Examiner. She is media - not just RTÉ - friendly. It is her continued prevalence in the media that invalidates the opinions (of some) in this thread; not the other way around.

topper75 wrote: »

And if the electorate have a different take on it ... publish the legend?

The electorate don't vote on who gets media coverage. Nor is it necessarily a meritocracy on which candidates get coverage. There are plenty of successful politicians in the country that I've never heard of.

It's a bit like saying why should Eamon Dunphy have been a prominent figure in soccer analysis when he didn't enjoy as much success as he contemporaries; it's because people enjoy listening to him regardless of that.

If she leaves politics it wouldn't surprise me at all if she pursued a successful media career.

Yurt2

Deleted User wrote: »

cmon now

the most basic and persistent tactic of the harder left on this board is to sit waiting and seething for whatever they can perceive as a discriminatory slight and make it all about that

this and most criticism of saoirse has been of substance and most defence of her points to her idealism - again we all have ideals- and then sprints headlong into trying to make it about her gender or youth.

this thread has in no way raised the issue of her gender.

all politicians get hit with the brickbats.

in looking to demand a politician gets kidglove treatment because of immutable characteristics, you arent imo making a great case for their actual abilities and you arent imo helping the cause for equality at all.

I care for the orthodox feminist agenda less than you think. But the full-on sneer against her by the usual suspects is intimately related to a. Her age b. Her gender and c. That she's not on the government bandwagon.

Basically it's a trifecta of factors of the usual moaney sh*tes that hate everyone that doesn't think and look like them.

The reason she's getting press at this moment because it's very obvious there is a fairly deep split in the party propping up the government. That's newsworthy and of consequence to the country and the government's survival prospects.

MFPM

awec wrote: »

The comment about the path to a free and just society not being in electoral politics is an incredibly naive statement to make and will surely be thrown in her face if she ever decides to run again.

Given the toxic nature of the response to her today, I doubt she'll run again... There is a place for electoral politics but there are other ways to effect change too.

KyussB

I'd say the strength of the sneering response to her, should give vigour to the idea of running again - it clearly pisses off a lot of the right people, showing that her politics are effective.

Fact is, she's newsworthy - front page material - even without having been elected. That's a fairly big success.

StupidLikeAFox

Irishman80 wrote: »

Lives in her own exclusive house on a small island where she grows her own food. Shes essentially a rich Daddys girl who became a farmer of sorts.(And I mean no disrespect to real farmers)

Irishman80 wrote: »

I still sense there's a rich Daddy around somewhere too.

Irishman80 wrote: »

If Saoirse is a Marxist, she must understand she likely belongs to that group - possibly intersecting with the capitalist class through Daddy. She ain't no prole.

I think you have Daddy issues

MFPM

MFPM wrote: »

The difference between her, I and people like you is

god this is impossibly obnoxious, you have to have an idea of that, right?

and im not attacking it unrelated to the thread topic- a politician or political movement that holds itself sniffing above the filthy lamentable opinions of the swilling masses will always find itself where saoirse is today- outside, lookin for undemocratic ways to make the swine see how much better things would be if they only had sense enough to do what they were told by their betters.

fortunately/unfortunately a politician or movement that doesn't have the indulgence of idealism or waiting for the glorious revolution has to play the dirty game and not be so obvious in holding themselves so far above the fray

Yurt!

Yurt! wrote: »

I care for the orthodox feminist agenda less than you think. But the full-on sneer against her by the usual suspects is intimately related to a. Her age b. Her gender and c. That she's not on the government bandwagon.

Basically it's a trifecta of factors of the usual moaney sh*tes that hate everyone that doesn't think and look like them.

The reason she's getting press at this moment because it's very obvious there is a fairly deep split in the party propping up the government. That's newsworthy and of consequence to the country and the government's survival prospects.

not seeing the gender/age thing as prominently as those predisposed to do so- thats clearly a relative position we'll all take based on our wont, im sure

otherwise well and fair enough, but sneering contempt/hatred and dismissiveness for those you disagree with is either valid or it isnt, its not the preserve of those you agree with.

im all for it meself, just for clarity

StupidLikeAFox

awec wrote: »

The comment about the path to a free and just society not being in electoral politics is an incredibly naive statement to make and will surely be thrown in her face if she ever decides to run again.

Well she said this on Twitter: The fact is that Climate Justice needs so much more than a few Green TDs. Repeal, water charges, marref, minimum wage,weekends, and almost every step of progress has come from outside of parliaments..

I think her point is that it may be more effective to be part of a grassroots campaign than get swallowed up in the slow wheels of government. Government will respond to people-led movements, not the other way around.

MFPM

Deleted User wrote: »

god this is impossibly obnoxious, you have to have an idea of that, right?

and im not attacking it unrelated to the thread topic- a politician or political movement that holds itself sniffing above the filthy lamentable opinions of the swilling masses will always find itself where saoirse is today- outside, lookin for undemocratic ways to make the swine see how much better things would be if they only had sense enough to do what they were told by their betters.

fortunately/unfortunately a politician or movement that doesn't have the indulgence of idealism or waiting for the glorious revolution has to play the dirty game and not be so obvious in holding themselves so far above the fray

god this is impossibly obnoxious, you have to have an idea of that, right?

That's your opinion and you're more than welcome to hold it.

a politician or political movement that holds itself sniffing above the filthy lamentable opinions of the swilling masses will always find itself where saoirse is today- outside, lookin for undemocratic ways to make the swine see how much better things would be if they only had sense enough to do what they were told by their betters.

You took that from my post????????????? Seriously, read it again and more importantly read the post I was replying too.

KyussB

KyussB wrote: »

I'd say the strength of the sneering response to her, should give vigour to the idea of running again - it clearly pisses off a lot of the right people, showing that her politics are effective.

Fact is, she's newsworthy - front page material - even without having been elected. That's a fairly big success.

whats the irish for greta, is it?

god that would be a fun debate all over again wouldnt it just

"attention is victory!" spare me fcs

KyussB

Deleted User wrote: »

whats the irish for greta, is it?

god that would be a fun debate all over again wouldnt it just

"attention is victory!" spare me fcs

Have you labelled her a 'Marxist' yet?

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

which is a valid choice

but why is it national news?

she was a story when she looked like achieving something in electoral politics against all odds, and fair play to her for that effort

everything since has been a demonstration of why those odds were against her

idealists have no right to anything outside of the system that we all live and work in, we all have ideals ffs

Because she garnered a lot of attention and significantly raised the Green vote in elections in which she contested.

Her central point today is that activism has been the change agent in Ireland in recent years, not elected officials.

I'm sorry to see her leave the Green, I think it is another stick regressives will use to beat any environmental voice in future elections. Action is needed to promote sustainability and to protect the environment, unfortunately, there isn't an appetite for that yet and I fear there might not be until it is too late.

The last 6 months have been a very difficult time for anyone wanting to see meaningful action. Covid-19 has increased massively the use of single use plastics and it has frightened societies worldwide of a recession and therefore environmental protection initiatives have literally been pushed off the table as people focus on the economy.

One thing I think Saoirse didn't understand is that it is not necessarily the political parties or leaders in Leinster house who are against real action on the environment, many in society also are hesitant, and definitely against it in the current climate of financial worry and job insecurity.

What is all the more troublesome about this is that Covid-19 experience has shown us that science should lead the way and prevention is way more advantageous than any hypothetical cure, that could have been a change agent to consider warnings on the environment, but, it isn't happening like that. That is both upsetting, and worrying.

is_that_so

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

And what age was Duffy then?

Mid-twenties in 1980.