Ms. McHugh and national broadcaster

topper75

MFPM wrote: »

Given the toxic nature of the response to her today, I doubt she'll run again... There is a place for electoral politics but there are other ways to effect change too.

Who's in the 'RA? :eek:

KyussB

KyussB wrote: »

Have you labelled her a 'Marxist' yet?

not sure ive labelled anyone a marxist in a while tbh

is m0nEy r3aL yet?

walshb

cml387 wrote: »

I notice that she says that her cause cannot be advanced by "electoral politics".

What exactly does that mean?

Just another poseur and messer!!!

Tell me how

walshb wrote: »

Just another poseur and messer!!!

Best quote on saw on this was 'Repeal wouldn't have happened without a vote. The vote wouldn't have happened without activism'.

Same for Marriage Ref and other causes that gained attention from a groundswell of support.

Dravokivich

topper75 wrote: »

I see she has defended this by claiming that people are conflating electoral politics with democracy. If I wasn't confused before, I certainly am now.

Now, from a recent google at lunch, there are many others in my 'dock' alongside RTÉ so I might have to change my thread title

The bald fact remains that she is an unsuccessful candidate for a minor party and her quitting the party is somehow newsworthy despite there not even being a wikipedia article for the lass. I'm no closer to understanding why. Help me understand.

Why does she need to be on Wiki?

As far as I can tell with the articles out about it that I saw, they are mainly from copying her twitter feed. If anything is to blame for this being newsworthy, it's the way people just repost stuff and publish articles from mere comments on twitter.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Best quote on saw on this was 'Repeal wouldn't have happened without a vote. The vote wouldn't have happened without activism'.

Same for Marriage Ref and other causes that gained attention from a groundswell of support.

i know weve banged heads on greta but i agree with most of what yr posting in this thread tmh

but i think that people want saoirse (and in general for causes they support) to become a miracle worker figurehead role as opposed to recognising the unglamorous and disciplined and often thankless grassroots work

and, at the end of the day, a groundswell of support is *still* necessary from the population generally- otherwise it doesnt happen.

and its frustrating to see someone with many of the characteristics required to get a very necessary platform for very necessary ideas seem so determined to undermine the very real need to get that hard, dirty and often very compromised work done.

thats all, really

topper75

Dravokivich wrote: »

Why does she need to be on Wiki?

As far as I can tell with the articles out about it that I saw, they are mainly from copying her twitter feed. If anything is to blame for this being newsworthy, it's the way people just repost stuff and publish articles from mere comments on twitter.

Oh no need to be at all.

Just that not having an article on there points more towards insignificance than significance. The media are strange. There is a great deal of substance to your second observation there. And I think it may even go some way towards answering my original question.

Tell me how

Deleted User wrote: »

i know weve banged heads on greta but i agree with most of what yr posting in this thread tmh

but i think that people want saoirse (and in general for causes they support) to become a miracle worker figurehead role as opposed to recognising the unglamorous and disciplined and often thankless grassroots work

and, at the end of the day, a groundswell of support is *still* necessary from the population generally- otherwise it doesnt happen.

and its frustrating to see someone with many of the characteristics required to get a very necessary platform for very necessary ideas seem so determined to undermine the very real need to get that hard, dirty and often very compromised work done.

thats all, really

Yeah, I have been disappointed with the pull back from many younger influential Greens after the negotiations for the PFG. If everyone was on board, I'd probably still support them but its all well and good talking about everything that needs to happen but if you aren't able to find a way to take the small wins you get and use that as a platform, you will remain on the outside until there is a total collapse or catastrophe and then you may have the power, but no resources.

Not a good time to be hopeful to see action towards helping the environment.
The PfG might have been 5% of what is needed, walking away is 0%.

change will come, maybe slower than hoped for, through govt parties/EU

but better to be in with the GP while in govt and have a voice than not, otherwise.....you do have to question at what point an unwillingness to work with the existing mechanisms becomes utterly self-defeating.

alias no.9

KyussB wrote: »

They are one of the most anti-austerity parties in Europe - they literally tanked their countries economy fighting against austerity, before succumbing...

Austerity is inherently right-wing - all parties that support austerity are right-wing.

Are parties that engage in deficit spending through a recession right or left wing? Most of our national debt increase in the last recession was incurred through deficit spending.

KyussB

Parties that support austerity are right wing, as I said.

Water John

KyussB wrote: »

Parties that support austerity are right wing, as I said.

I haven't heard any mainstream party suggest austerity as a solution to the current economic and social situation brought about by Covid 19.

KyussB

It's in the Programme for Government - budget balancing in 2 years time when FG take the helm - which, unless we recover fully by then (extremely unlikely) means austerity. FF, FG and the Greens have agreed to (very likely) austerity.

It's a big reason people like Saoirse were so critical of the PfG - though that wasn't limited to this specific bit of the PfG.

KiKi III

She polled higher than both FF candidates at 51,000 first preference votes in the most anti-Green constituency in the country. As a complete unknown pre-election.

Casey was a high profile, well-funded business man who ran a populist campaign and only got 1% more of the first preference votes at 56,000.

Goes to show the general population isn’t as populist as some on boards would like to think.

StackSteevens

KiKi III wrote: »

She polled higher than both FF candidates at 51,000 first preference votes in the most anti-Green constituency in the country. As a complete unknown pre-election. Casey was a high profile, well-funded business man who ran a populist campaign and only got 1% more of the first preference votes at 56,000.

Goes to show the general population isn’t as populist as some on boards would like to think.

I reckon that whatever candidate the Greens had run in that constituency would have ended up with much the same percentage of the vote (8.6%).

Rodney Bathgate

KyussB wrote: »

Parties that support austerity are right wing, as I said.

So for example the Socialist Party in Portugal from the early 2010’s was ‘right wing’?

KiKi III

StackSteevens wrote: »

I reckon that whatever candidate the Greens had run in that constituency would have ended up with much the same percentage of the vote (8.6%).

Nope, in the 2014 election Mark Dearey got 1.5% of the vote at 9,520 first preference votes. She increased their vote by a factor of at least 5 and probably more like 6.

Tell me how

StackSteevens wrote: »

I reckon that whatever candidate the Greens had run in that constituency would have ended up with much the same percentage of the vote (8.6%).

She increased their vote by 500% from their previous election result. She was(is) a very strong advocate, It is a big blow to see her step away.

Rodney Bathgate

KiKi III wrote: »

Nope, in the 2014 election Mark Dearey got 1.5% of the vote at 9,520 first preference votes. She increased their vote by a factor of at least 5 and probably more like 6.

Sorry, but this is rubbish.

She benefited from the same rising ship that all the GP candidates benefited from in the 2019 local election and the 2020 General election.

They went from 12 to 49 seats in the local elections and 3 to 12 seats in the general election.

She had little or nothing to do with the increase in the GP vote in any of the elections. She didn’t even get elected in the general election when 12 of her party members were returned.

riffmongous

Deleted User wrote: »

change will come, maybe slower than hoped for, through govt parties/EU

but better to be in with the GP while in govt and have a voice than not, otherwise.....you do have to question at what point an unwillingness to work with the existing mechanisms becomes utterly self-defeating.

Not if you are part of an unpopular program that sees you destroyed at the next election. This is the constant danger for green parties when they are still very much a minority, a quick sellout might only do more damage in the long run

Tell me how

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Sorry, but this is rubbish.

She benefited from the same rising ship that all the GP candidates benefited from in the 2019 local election and the 2020 General election.

They went from 12 to 49 seats in the local elections and 3 to 12 seats in the general election.

She had little or nothing to do with the increase in the GP vote in any of the elections. She didn’t even get elected in the general election when 12 of her party members were returned.

Her performance in the Presidential election debates and her profile in the intervening time meant that she was in some way responsible for that rising ship.
I'm not saying that it was all her, but to suggest she had no impact would only be the case if Green candidates in all other constituencies performed the same as she did.

StackSteevens

KiKi III wrote: »

Nope, in the 2014 election Mark Dearey got 1.5% of the vote at 9,520 first preference votes. She increased their vote by a factor of at least 5 and probably more like 6.

Which although a mildly interesting historical footnote, has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that Green issues were much more prominent in 2019 than they had been in 2014 - (the likes of Greta Thunderthighs and Extinction Rebellion weren't even around in 2014) - hence, I remain of the opinion that whatever candidate the Greens had run in the 2019 Euro election, would have garnered much the same percentage of the vote.

Edit: I see that Rodders got there before me!

Rodney Bathgate

Tell me how wrote: »

Her performance in the Presidential election debates and her profile in the intervening time meant that she was in some way responsible for that rising ship.
I'm not saying that it was all her, but to suggest she had no impact would only be the case if Green candidates in all other constituencies performed the same as she did.

Many performed better than her. 12 got elected, 9 more than the previous election. She didn’t get elected. Claiming she was responsible is ridiculous. If she was so great and popular why didn’t she get a seat in the GE?

duffman13

She wants an eco socialist party apparently, sounds like she'll end out with Rise (Paul Murphys greener version of PBP/Socialist party)

3 failed elections and still thinks shes relevant. The surprise result/performance of the greens in the European elections has gone to her head. Murphy dived on that too with his establishment of Rise all the while speaking about how the country needs a stable left government yet he himself creates another splinter group.

StackSteevens

riffmongous wrote: »

Not if you are part of an unpopular program that sees you destroyed at the next election. This is the constant danger for green parties when they are still very much a minority, a quick sellout might only do more damage in the long run

Looks as though their TDs may have already started to revolt.

(O'Dowd not elected.)

Rodney Bathgate

duffman13 wrote: »

She wants an eco socialist party apparently, sounds like she'll end out with Rise (Paul Murphys greener version of PBP/Socialist party)

3 failed elections and still thinks shes relevant. The surprise result/performance of the greens in the European elections has gone to her head. Murphy dived on that too with his establishment of Rise all the while speaking about how the country needs a stable left government yet he himself creates another splinter group.

Will that be another party to add to mix of Solidarity / PBP / Rise etc? Starting to get complicated.

KyussB

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

So for example the Socialist Party in Portugal from the early 2010’s was ‘right wing’?

They capitulated to the Troika without fighting the way Greece did (I don't endorse the latter) - and then when they returned to government in 2015 they began dismantling austerity.

They capitulated to but certainly don't endorse austerity.

Rodney Bathgate

KyussB wrote: »

They capitulated to the Troika without fighting the way Greece did (I don't endorse the latter) - and then when they returned to government in 2015 they began dismantling austerity.

They capitulated to but certainly don't endorse austerity.

So were they ‘right wing’ or not?

KyussB

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

So were they[Socialist Party in Portugal] ‘right wing’ or not?

No, I don't view them as supporting austerity - capitulating to it under the Troika, yes - but not supporting it. As I said from 2015 they have been dismantling austerity.

Meanwhile, here we have a government that agreed to very likely austerity in ~2 years, for absolutely no reason at all.

duffman13

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Will that be another party to add to mix of Solidarity / PBP / Rise etc? Starting to get complicated.

Paul Murphy has been screaming for GP members to join RISE, if he's not banging down her door id be surprised, an opportunist man like him. But yeah, i don't think she'll go back to politics, without the green machine around her she'll struggle. Gogarty is an ex green but if he was still in would have arguably got a seat in the last election or at least been a lot closer.

I dont know where she goes from here though, a career in activism doesn't pay well but her media profile might get her a cushy number somewhere