2020 Executive Officer Civil Service

gestappo

Green farmer wrote: »

Did it not say, they'll be recorded and reviewed later if you make it to the interview stage ? So they'll only have to look at who ever makes it that far ?

It also stated that they could ask you to pan around the room before you get an infringement. Or ask you at any stage to hold up your rough work.

Govannan

gestappo wrote: »

It also stated that they could ask you to pan around the room before you get an infringement. Or ask you at any stage to hold up your rough work.

Another person in this thread also mentioned that those reuqests could be automated.

gestappo

Govannan wrote: »

Another person in this thread also mentioned that those reuqests could be automated.

They could be, I guess we’ll all find out very soon!

yenom

I've no laptop. I done the first part in an internet cafe. I'll have to see if a tablet will work.

The only thing about a tablet is that you wont be able to guarantee that the camera will be focused on you at all times.

November Golf

gestappo wrote: »

I’m taking that it’ll be both live monitored and recorded.

gestappo wrote: »

Not schedule everyone individually but give various times when someone will be available to monitor. It’s all new so I’m just guessing and going from what I’ve been told revenue do.

I agree, I think this is the most likely situation.

If the main purpose is simply to deter cheating, one person should supervise a large group of people (whether thats at a set time or with people coming and going over a period). They don't need to be overly monitoring any individual person since its recorded & it can be reviewed later if they did miss something.

So who's going wearing a suit for the test :cool: :rolleyes:

Green farmer

gestappo wrote: »

It also stated that they could ask you to pan around the room before you get an infringement. Or ask you at any stage to hold up your rough work.

With technology I'm sure it's all automated, but reviewed by a human prior to interview.

Dublintigger

Green farmer wrote: »

Did it not say, they'll be recorded and reviewed later if you make it to the interview stage ? So they'll only have to look at who ever makes it that far ?

The other thing it doesn't say is when we have to do the test only by when. If like me, the only time I can do the test would be outside working hours and most preferably at the weekend because of peace and quiet. If could be challenging!
I think it will be automated and assessed after the fact.

I wonder if we'll get any clarification.

newbie18892

Dublintigger wrote: »

The other thing it doesn't say is when we have to do the test only by when. If like me, the only time I can do the test would be outside working hours and most preferably at the weekend because of peace and quiet. If could be challenging!
I think it will be automated and assessed after the fact.

I wonder if we'll get any clarification.

I did notice that it says to plan your assessment time around the SOVA assessment help desk hours in case we need assistance from them. That's Mon-Fri 9-5:30 and 10-1 at the weekend.

I assume we may have to do our tests within those time brackets to facilitate the remote monitoring?

Aceandstuff

Mike Foxtrot wrote: »

I agree, I think this is the most likely situation.

If the main purpose is simply to deter cheating, one person should supervise a large group of people (whether thats at a set time or with people coming and going over a period). They don't need to be overly monitoring any individual person since its recorded & it can be reviewed later if they did miss something.

So who's going wearing a suit for the test :cool: :rolleyes:

I'll definitely be wearing a suit. My face is usually the bit interviewers and the like usually laugh at though. I was hoping to get through a few more rounds of tests and prove myself before anyone actually has to see me. And I've just had a tooth out, so there's a "puddin" on one side of my face.

Samuel T. Cogley

Aceandstuff wrote: »

I'll definitely be wearing a suit. My face is usually the bit interviewers and the like usually laugh at though. I was hoping to get through a few more rounds of tests and prove myself before anyone actually has to see me. And I've just had a tooth out, so there's a "puddin" on one side of my face.

The interviewers and the majority of Civil Service managers are at least professional. No one is going to laugh at you and if someone does it says a hell of a lot more about them than it does you.

floorpie

I really doubt your presentation will matter at this stage. You get through on the basis of your score, not your tie.

kwestfan08

I see in the pre test information that its worded that we should take boths tests in one sitting, if possible. Makes me think there won't be specific times allocated but I could be wrong.

Connacht15

When I saw the filming requirement, I thought it was monumentally daft and unfair.

Daft because it was never used before, so why should the current cohort of applicants be subjected to it?
And also it is a logistical nightmare and it's not totally clear what exactly is required.
In the days of public servants working from home (and certain sections e.g. SW and Revenue should never ever be allowed to do so due to client privacy considerations!) can we expect constant monitoring of remote workers? surely this is a logical next step!

Unfair, it disadvantages anybody who cannot take the test at home e.g. those who use Internet Cafes and those who do not have laptops with webcams!

I sincerely hope this absolutely ricockulous nonsense is a one off!

Aleece2020

Connacht15 wrote: »

I sincerely hope this absolutely ricockulous nonsense is a one off!

I wouldn't be too sure about that. This will be the second test I have taken for a Civil Service role which required a camera to be turned on for the duration. Last time they made me turn the microphone on too and they could see everything I was doing on my screen. I assume these are measures to prevent cheating since the last exam I took could easily have been cheated on had they not been watching the screen.

Madelyn

I think they used TestReach in 2018 and it was a disaster, lots of people couldn't log on at all. It was abandoned and had to be redone in Dublin. Everyone had to resit it including those who completed it on the day.

Samuel T. Cogley

Connacht15 wrote: »

When I saw the filming requirement, I thought it was monumentally daft and unfair.

Daft because it was never used before, so why should the current cohort of applicants be subjected to it?

COVID-19 - maybe it would be better if they stopped recruitment entirely and gave no one a chance?

gestappo

Connacht15 wrote: »

In the days of public servants working from home (and certain sections e.g. SW and Revenue should never ever be allowed to do so due to client privacy considerations!)

You do realise that both departments have people working from home, from CO level up? Need I also remind you that revenue have been doing these type of monitored testing for a good while now with no issues or complaints.

I think the info booklet was very informative in what we will all need and require on the day so I don’t see what everyone’s confusion or issue is. It’s a means to an end, things are changing and this is another change.

Govannan

gestappo wrote: »

You do realise that both departments have people working from home, from CO level up? Need I also remind you that revenue have been doing these type of monitored testing for a good while now with no issues or complaints.

I think the info booklet was very informative in what we will all need and require on the day so I don’t see what everyone’s confusion or issue is. It’s a means to an end, things are changing and this is another change.

I think the information booklet was relatively clear, but not completely. You can't deny that there's ambiguity about whether the test will be recorded, live monitored, or both. If it were a test question, I'd answer "Cannot say" 😅

MrsBean

What's the alternative? A much longer drawn out process of socially distanced supervised testing in PAS testing centres? You really just can't please everyone. PAS are doing the best they can given the circumstances. You can buy a webcam online for a tenner, or you could borrow a laptop for the afternoon off someone. If you want the job bad enough, you'll find a way to make it work.

gestappo

Govannan wrote: »

I think the information booklet was relatively clear, but not completely. You can't deny that there's ambiguity about whether the test will be recorded, live monitored, or both. If it were a test question, I'd answer "Cannot say" ��

But it’s not pertinent information in the long run, the info booklet was quite comprehensive in all the ways it actually mattered. Plus the email states we’ll get another email by the 16th September which will probably clarify if the test will be monitored along with being recorded.

gestappo

MrsBean wrote: »

What's the alternative? A much longer drawn out process of socially distanced supervised testing in PAS testing centres? You really just can't please everyone. PAS are doing the best they can given the circumstances. You can buy a webcam online for a tenner, or you could borrow a laptop for the afternoon off someone. If you want the job bad enough, you'll find a way to make it work.

Well said.

Govannan

gestappo wrote: »

But it’s not pertinent information in the long run, the info booklet was quite comprehensive in all the ways it actually mattered. Plus the email states we’ll get another email by the 16th September which will probably clarify if the test will be monitored along with being recorded.

Yeah agreed. I'm not complaining about it really, just a bit anxious as I'm away from home this week so it's made things a bit awkward for me. Luckily I have a laptop to bring, but not everyone would be in the same boat! Although you can do it on a phone so can't say fairer than that really.

Green farmer

gestappo wrote: »

Well said.

Quiet right, getting caught up in issues like that can distract you from what we should be focusing on.

AngryLips

Connacht15 wrote: »

When I saw the filming requirement, I thought it was monumentally daft and unfair.

Daft because it was never used before, so why should the current cohort of applicants be subjected to it?
And also it is a logistical nightmare and it's not totally clear what exactly is required.
In the days of public servants working from home (and certain sections e.g. SW and Revenue should never ever be allowed to do so due to client privacy considerations!) can we expect constant monitoring of remote workers? surely this is a logical next step!

Unfair, it disadvantages anybody who cannot take the test at home e.g. those who use Internet Cafes and those who do not have laptops with webcams!

I sincerely hope this absolutely ricockulous nonsense is a one off!

Seriously, what planet are you living on to find this so offensive?

Dublintigger

MrsBean wrote: »

What's the alternative? A much longer drawn out process of socially distanced supervised testing in PAS testing centres? You really just can't please everyone. PAS are doing the best they can given the circumstances. You can buy a webcam online for a tenner, or you could borrow a laptop for the afternoon off someone. If you want the job bad enough, you'll find a way to make it work.

Well said and totally agree.

jonnybangbang

Can I confirm if it is ok to use the calculator on our Desktop/laptop or do we need to have a separate physical one on our desk during the assessment?

gestappo

jonnybangbang wrote: »

Can I confirm if it is ok to use the calculator on our Desktop/laptop or do we need to have a separate physical one on our desk during the assessment?

Reading the info booklet, it states you cannot switch between screens so I’m thinking maybe not.

I plan on borrowing one from work.

delricyo

jonnybangbang wrote: »

Can I confirm if it is ok to use the calculator on our Desktop/laptop or do we need to have a separate physical one on our desk during the assessment?

I would really recommend getting a standalone one - even if you will physically be able to use the PC one.
Having done lots of these tests before, the standalone calculators are better

Dublintigger

Folks – I have been reading the booklet to get my own clarity and I thought the following may help…. I think it is pretty straight forward but open to suggestions.

Page 3 of Stage 1 (b) pre-test information
You must take the assessments during the specific time frame allocated to you. No alternative times will be granted. We will be given a particular time to do the test so they can monitor us.

Re using other app (i.e. excel for calculations)
All other applications except for your browser window and internet connection must be closed. Couldn’t see anything about using a calculator but previous assessments you could do - so not predicting a change there

Page 5/6 Record and review
As you progress through the assessments you will need to record a video displaying your face alongside photo ID.
You will also be asked to scan with the camera device you are using
Throughout the assessment you will be required to complete further such authentication checks when prompted by the system – i.e. this will be intermittent and you/we will be requested to present our Photo ID and scan our room when requested during the assessment.

Page 7
You have 15 minutes to complete the Verbal Reasoning – 15 questions and answers are only True, False or cannot say.
15 minutes to complete the Numerical reasoning tests – 15 questions.

The next sentence is a bit ambiguous – one minute we are timed next we are not being timed?
Note that the numerical reasoning assessment is not time limited, your response time is recorded and will contribute to your result.
A combination of time taken and the accurate response is used to calculate your results.

Page 8
I think the final part is a bit telling and a bit worrying as well – “the assessment uses Adaptive Assessment Technology means you will receive questions tailored to your performance as you progress through the test and will get easier or more difficult depending on your performance”
You must answer the questions in the order presented - you cannot go back to previous page!!

Hope this helps!

BMHOPE

I have done the verification tests online before, long before covid with no issues, it actually cuts down on stress, no getting Up at 5 o clock to drive an hour to get a train to Dublin, allowing for delays, passing time in cafes as only aĺlowed to arrive 15 mins before test is scheduled. While the person usually speaks to you before hand to show the room etc. Once test starts you forget you are being observed, having said that it was specific time slots that you booked yourself rather than random ones. I think the invigilator had 8 people to watch. I would have thought especially with people working from home, most would have a laptop/ pc/ tablet or at least access to one.