Price Changes since new HTB announcement

Smouse156

Think the title says it all, please post if you notice new build prices jacked since the announcement of HTB increasing from €20,000 to €30,000 and 5% to 10%. Be interesting to see some solid examples. I’m assuming builders will begin raising tomorrow

Smouse156

Smouse156 wrote: »

Think the title says it all, please post if you notice new build prices jacked since the announcement of HTB increasing from €20,000 to €30,000 and 5% to 10%. Be interesting to see some solid examples. I’m assuming builders will begin raising tomorrow

Where did you buy your tin foil hat?


I might be wrong, but I doubt very much, any builder will up their prices tomorrow.
Considering HTB is only available on new builds, you have two scenarios.
New builds, where the prices have already been announced for a specific phaze of a development.
New builds, where prices haven't been announced.

So are you expecting builders to change prices already announced? Or to increase prices that haven't been announced?

tolow

Cairn homes appear to have already upped the price of some of their houses in Maynooth

SteelyDanJalapeno

tolow wrote: »

Cairn homes appear to have already upped the price of some of their houses in Maynooth

Today? Which ones?

Smouse156

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where did you buy your tin foil hat?


I might be wrong, but I doubt very much, any builder will up their prices tomorrow.
Considering HTB is only available on new builds, you have two scenarios.
New builds, where the prices have already been announced for a specific phaze of a development.
New builds, where prices haven't been announced.

So are you expecting builders to change prices already announced? Or to increase prices that haven't been announced?

When HTB was first announced the builders jacked prices the following day

perfectkama

what do you want price controls? modern day communist ireland guaranteed to reduce supply and quality just like our rental sector no one should be allowed to make money on property,except tax exempt foreign cookoo funds yep hard left happy with that

Dylan94

perfectkama wrote: »

what do you want price controls? modern day communist ireland guaranteed to reduce supply and quality just like our rental sector no one should be allowed to make money on property,except tax exempt foreign cookoo funds yep hard left happy with that

No, but I think people are allowed to know what developers are taking advantage of the money that is meant to be there to help buyers.

No one is talking about price controls, just information.

Graham

Dylan94 wrote: »

No, but I think people are allowed to know what developers are taking advantage of the money that is meant to be there to help buyers.

Wasn't one of the original goals also to boost the construction of new homes? That's the main reasons HTB is only available on new properties.

Sierra Oscar

Graham wrote: »

Wasn't one of the original goals also to boost the construction of new homes? That's the main reasons HTB is only available on new properties.

Yes and it seems this measure is to try and help developers shore up their margins for new builds given the cost associated with implementing Covid-19 measures. It looks like price increases are inevitable and something which the Government are moving to preempt.

SozBbz

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Yes and it seems this measure is to try and help developers shore up their margins for new builds given the cost associated with implementing Covid-19 measures. It looks like price increases are inevitable and something which the Government are moving to preempt.

Well, yes I think that suring up builders margins is seen as necessary to keep builders building, in order that FTBs have some stock to buy.

Its helping buyers, which helps builders, which ultimately helps buyers.

The alternative, where little/no new stock comes on stream, is far worse for FTBs.

Also, if people remember what happened pre HTB scheme - builders around 2014/15/16 were building more luxury homes which were well out of reach of FTBs. They were doing this because the margins were better on those types of properties. HTB has focused builders attentions back towards house types that are what FTBs look for.

Giblet

Someone who was purchasing a 400k house with 20k deposit + 20k from HTB, just needs an additional 10k deposit to potentially buy a 600k house.

Not everyone will fall into this due to 3.5x rate etc but the potential price range increase is far larger than 10k.

Sarn

It only applies to houses up to €500k.

Graham

and lending limits (income multiples) haven't changed.

Giblet

Ah yes, it was changed. Still, 100k potential increase there for same deposit then!

SozBbz

Giblet wrote: »

Ah yes, it was changed. Still, 100k potential increase there for same deposit then!

Only if your income is sufficient to support that borrowing. I think people who could borrow more were already doing so most likely.

If theyre not having to put down so much cash for deposit, perhaps they'll spend more when moving in which would give a boost to the retail sector.

Giblet

SozBbz wrote: »

Only if your income is sufficient to support that borrowing. I think people who could borrow more were already doing so most likely.

If theyre not having to put down so much cash for deposit, perhaps they'll spend more when moving in which would give a boost to the retail sector.

I know that, and took it into account. There are plenty of people who are paying high rent so raising the deposit is difficult, but suddenly have 100k more buying power for their current deposit means builders could take advantage of this. I myself fall into the category of qualifying for an LTI more than my current deposit allows.

SozBbz

Giblet wrote: »

I know that, and took it into account. There are plenty of people who are paying high rent so raising the deposit is difficult, but suddenly have 100k more buying power for their current deposit means builders could take advantage of this. I myself fall into the category of qualifying for an LTI more than my current deposit allows.

Its not so much giving you extra buying power through, rather than bringing your buying power forward by effectively putting the deposit in your hand now.

I don't know anyone who went ahead with a cheaper house because they didnt have the deposit. Anyone I know just saved longer until they did have the deposit in place that was commensurate with 3.5x income. Buying a house is costly every time you do it, so I don't see people buying houses that don't meet their needs because they don't have the deposit as yet.

Graham

SozBbz wrote: »

bringing your buying power forward by effectively putting the deposit in your hand now.

I think that's exactly it.

It's not so much increasing demand or borrowing/spending limits (generally speaking), it's shifting the demand forwards.

Anyone saving for a deposit with a view to buying in the next 12 - 18 months may overnight discover they're now in a position to buy.

BaRcOe

If I buy a house for 330k, I need 10% Deposit which is 33k. So now the Government are going to pay 10%, 30k to me (which is the MAX amount of the scheme) and I only need to pay the remainder, i.e. 3k?

House Price: 330k
Deposit 10%: 33k
Scheme Covers: Max 30k
Leftover to pay: 3k

Is this correct?

SozBbz

BaRcOe wrote: »

If I buy a house for 330k, I need 10% Deposit which is 33k. So now the Government are going to pay 10%, 30k to me (which is the MAX amount of the scheme) and I only need to pay the remainder, i.e. 3k?

Is this correct?

If you've paid enough tax over the past few years, then yep.

Oh and also that you earn enough to be able to borrow the other 90%.

Nijmegen

Graham wrote: »

I think that's exactly it.

It's not so much increasing demand or borrowing/spending limits (generally speaking), it's shifting the demand forwards.

Anyone saving for a deposit with a view to buying in the next 12 - 18 months may overnight discover they're now in a position to buy.

Which, given the supply of new builds hasn't magically increased (has actually stalled / been pushed back due to covid shutting building sites), will drive up prices as the demand and supply are time matched.

Graham

Nijmegen wrote: »

Which, given the supply of new builds hasn't magically increased (has actually stalled / been pushed back due to covid shutting building sites), will drive up prices as the demand and supply are time matched.

I do expect that costs have increased but buyers borrowing limits haven't changed which is likely to limit the scope for significant price increases.

Given everything that's going on right now, even maintaining current supply levels would be a pretty good outcome.

SozBbz

Graham wrote: »

I do expect that costs have increased but buyers borrowing limits haven't changed which is likely to limit the scope for significant price increases.

Given everything that's going on right now, even maintaining current supply levels would be a pretty good outcome.

Delays = Cost, so yes I'd say its safe to assume that costs have increased.

I'd say the idea here was to bring forward demand in order to sure up the market from a confidence point of view, and I mean confidence of both builders and buyers.

As much as there is a healthy suspicion of developers on this platform, the last thing we actually need is no new stock coming on stream because they can't be sure they'll make their margins. If builders were to stop because they felt it was no longer viable, then we'd be in a real crisis.

Thierry12

Nijmegen wrote: »

Which, given the supply of new builds hasn't magically increased (has actually stalled / been pushed back due to covid shutting building sites), will drive up prices as the demand and supply are time matched.

Is this scheme only for new builds, not 2nd hand houses?

Graham

New builds only.

Eric Cartman

BaRcOe wrote: »

If I buy a house for 330k, I need 10% Deposit which is 33k. So now the Government are going to pay 10%, 30k to me (which is the MAX amount of the scheme) and I only need to pay the remainder, i.e. 3k?

House Price: 330k
Deposit 10%: 33k
Scheme Covers: Max 30k
Leftover to pay: 3k

Is this correct?

provided you have the 85k household income to meet that then yeah.

sparkle109

At what point do you claim the HTB? Is it at point of drawing down mortgage or signing contracts? There’s houses available at the end of this year I’d be very interested in but conscious that the Increase is only for 2020

Naos

Giblet wrote: »

Someone who was purchasing a 400k house with 20k deposit + 20k from HTB, just needs an additional 10k deposit to potentially buy a 600k house.

Not everyone will fall into this due to 3.5x rate etc but the potential price range increase is far larger than 10k.

Been a long week.. can you explain that for me please?

Thierry12

Graham wrote: »

New builds only.

Nice

So it could drive down 2nd hand house prices then

Giblet

Naos wrote: »

Been a long week.. can you explain that for me please?

If I have 20k deposit, and 20k htb, the maximum house price I can buy is 400k.

The government has just given 10k extra, providing I reach the LTI multiplier, I can now buy a house for 500k, right now. It puts a lot of people who had to wait into the market now. It could also result in people overextending themselves (I might be able to meet the 3.5 LTI, doesn't mean I should be paying a bigger mortgage).

Dylan94

It has actually put me in a much worse position. We have only paid €21k in income tax as we only started working full time recently. Now the vast majority of people going against me for a house has an additional €10k so prices will be going up an extra €10k, meaning I will have to save for a lot longer to make the additional money up.