1967 VW Variant.

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120988645#Comment_120988645

Glad to know you are a regular. If there is something that puzzles you and you dont understand it just shout. Its no problem to clarify something at all with a better pic or explanation.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989397#Comment_120989397

The spot welder comment was more a general comment, I've used then a lot in other makes where the front wings are welded to the valance whereas the VW's are bolted, but the quarter panels in all of them are spot welded, and relatively easy to use the welder on. Strange now with all the improvements with electric welder's, so small and powerful that they can be carried around by hand, and prices have dropped, that a small spot welder is not available. The very first electric welder that I used was a huge heavy oil filled affair, on cast iron wheel's, and took effort to even move it around. But it did weld! I understand exactly where you are coming from, and I agree, but I also think that the first one you come across, you will snap it up!!!😊

You mean the rear torsion bar suspension? They were indeed a rare bird to have to work on in my time. I think that I only ever had to replace one, and that was after a crash, and at this stage, my memory is sketchy at best as to the actual job. But, no I don't have any of the special tools that were used back then. Unfortunately. But recently, going through an old tool box, that hadn't been opened for many years, I came across a flat / Phillips reversible screwdriver, plug socket, 12-14 mm, 10-13 mm and a flat 27mm spanner, one of a pair needed for the lock nuts on the front hubs. And a set of AF sockets and spanners. And that's the physical remains of that stage of my life.. LOL.

I wouldn't be into criticism at all. If you ( or anyone else |) had a problem, and I had the solution, I'd be more than happy to help, and if my advice etc, did help, I'd be delighted.

New Home

I also think that the first one you come across, you will snap it up!!!😊

To be honest, I'm almost surprised he hasn't built one from scratch, yet. 😁

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120989951#Comment_120989951

TBH, he has a lot on his hands at the moment, so I'd be inclined to give him a chance to finish the Variant first.....🤣

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990007#Comment_120990007

🤣 Yeah, let me finish the project in hand. Thats the tool that sets the rear suspension, as well as the front control arms to the right angle.

I see a lot of beetles and some type 3 fast backs lowered that look crap. What with the serious handling issues created by this modification, they cant be roadworthy. And i know from some outings that some cars had to turn back as they could not get over any speed ramps, mad stuff. Shouldn't be allowed.

I've seen dome of the suspension tools go for silly money on ebay. But when you want to set it right, its the only tool

New Home

Excuses, excuses...

😂

kadman

Here you go JM, a blast from the past for you. No surprises here http://oacdp.org/tools.html

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990383#Comment_120990383

You are starting to sound like the missus🤣

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120990385#Comment_120990385

Absolutely brilliant kadman !!! Thanks a million. While the rest of the household is watching whatever is going on on TV, or more likely, stuck in their Ipads etc, I'll be surfing the pages of the brochure, and reliving the past.

100% in agreement with you on altering any part of any car away from designer specs, and that applies especially to modifying any part of the brake, steering, or suspensions.

Thanks again!!! Jim.

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120991366#Comment_120991366

Pay particular attention the the door hinge alignment tool. I know there would be a ready market for them, and very little making in them as you will appreciate. I know loads of guys who tackle their own A post repairs on beetles, but struggle to re attach the doors in the right place😉

kadman

So today I seam welded the cill at the front hinge post A. And at the lock post B, where the new cill was attached to. I also tackled the short filler tapered panel at the end of the heater channel area, towards the rear of the car. This panel will be plug welded and covered by the rear wing.

Here is the tailend filler piece plug welded and nearly finished.

And here is the little filler piece between the new cill and the filler tailend.

Here is the cill at the door hinge post end welded in.

This is the end filler piece with the galvanised coating removed for welding with less dangerous fume emmisions.

And here is the B post welded to the cill and nearly all cleaned up.

Just have to tidy up the plug welds a bit further, and then its on to the rear inner bulkhead panel.

Oops, nearly forgot,

this is the guy responsible for using up loads of boards bandwidth

Kadman, yep this is me, I'm not just a myth, I'm real

🤣

Gremlinertia

Proper cap an all, thanks for all the effort and enthralling posting

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001785#Comment_121001785

I wore the cap coz the reflection off me old noggin would give me trouble with the camera pic🤣

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001103#Comment_121001103

That's a fine looking job now on the sill, very professional. Is there much work to do further back along the car after the Sill panels? You are on the home stretch now, as far as the metalwork goes. I'm still going through old VW parts list, very informative. When I started, the suspension trailer arms were connected to the hubs using King Pins, and shims for adjustment, and not the more modern ball-joint set up that arrived later on. And that you are looking for the alignment tool for. Sorry, I can't help you there. My Aunt ( RIP) had a Beetle which had the split rear screen, so that will give you an idea about the time frame. As for the re-aligning of the door pillar, that should not be that difficult, especially on restore job ( as against a crash repair) Normally, you can take a centre line, and measure from the intact side, and use that to position captive nuts within the pillar itself, and that should give you the factory tolerances. In your manual, they actually show a jig ( 671 -672 ) to use for checking the alignment of the rear tubular frame. The one where the towbars were bolted on to. And god help you if you managed to cross-thread one of them when trying to maneuver the towbar into position, and keep the engine - transmission in line with the chassis-tubing.

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121002051#Comment_121002051

Methinks I have awakened a sleeping VW resto dragon🤣

kadman

Seriously tho, the post I put up for old vw tools is really class, if you are a a vw head

kadman

Cross threading a gearbox wishbone support is so easy with the fine threads, Been there, done that unfortunately, and had to buy the tap to re thread. Pain in the hole for sure. Brothers in arms on that one Jim.😉

Jeff2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121002393#Comment_121002393

Its very interesting to me and not a VW head but just to read it because of engineering.

Maybe someone will download it and post as a pdf file.

kadman

Yeah, I think its easy enough to keep everything in line when you are replacing metal. Once you arrive at the proper sequence of cutting out and replacing, piece by piece, its easy enough to stay on track. And constant checking.

Where problems occur is when you go mad with the angle grinder and cutting discs, cutting all the rust out in one go. Which i have seen loads of projects out there that are irretrievable because of that approach.

Or when your project is so rusty that all the datums to start from are gone, and you are trying to position the first datum to commence, and all with no factory dims to guide you. Thats when you start pulling hair out.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121002479#Comment_121002479

I copied the URL, PM me and I will sent it to you, if you like.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121002716#Comment_121002716

Way to go. Concentrate on one section at a time, and ignore the rest. Here's a few pic's of a VW T2 van restore project I saw recently. Belongs to a friend of mine. What do ye think???

kadman

I think your friend is suffering from the same affliction I have . I must admit if I thought it was repairable, then I would probably tackle it too. He is not afraid of hard work for sure if he is going to restore that T2.

Reality for the T2's is, that you can either buy one at 2000 which is a project with a log book, needing welding.

Pay 12,500 for a nicely painted camper that needs major panel roof and chassis welding, so same thing for more money

Or Pay 25,ooo for a good looking camper, that needs welding and tidying up, or pay 45,000 that needs no wedling.....Yet.

They will all need welding at some stage as these are 50 plus year old vehicles.

The easiest vehicles to do are the T2 for sure. Its large, good accessibility, spare parts of every description available, and parts are reasonably cheap.

Beetles fall into the same category for the same reasons, cheap parts , and everything available.

Hardest vw for restoring is any of the type 3's like I am doing. fastbacks, variants, and notchbacks and T34 Karmann ghia coupe.

Body panels in particular are not generally available unless you come across NOS if you are lucky enough. And if you do find them, the you are going to pay top dollar.

So if your friend is up to the task, has the skills, and the time, tools and space to do it. Then hell yeah....why not.

But if he scares easy..............................then he should run Forrest, Run,,,,,

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121002393#Comment_121002393

There were several items in it that interested me and one in particular brought back many memories ( and a bit of history too!) nr 763, location plates which were fixed to the floor around the wheel free lift, which was specifically for the Beetle. So you drove the car onto these 4 plates, which positioned the car perfectly over the lift. There were 4 posts placed at 4 points around the lift, each with a mirror attached, so one person could carry out all the check functions lights etc. from the drivers seat. Also on the rear post on the drivers side, was an electronic box or terminal. A very new arrival at the time, the Sun Analyzer . It connected via a cable to a socket in the engine compartment, and could be used during a service to check and report on various functions. It was a very basic forerunner to what we call the OBD system today. It marked the new concept of each mechanic having his own bay, complete with lift. Marked a big change from the single lift multiple pits garages.

kadman

Very innovative of vw even back then.

I must have a look at 763 later today. I think one or two tools were made upto the recent past and possibly still by tatra or matra or some sounding similar name.

You will surely know what I mean.

kadman

I see a few Sun Analyzer come up for sale now and again alright. Large bit of kit. But on most of the vw's I had the terminal was removed. Although the terminal block in my own type 3 is still intact, but with some wires disconnected.

kadman

Secret of a manageable resto is knowing what to cut out, and more important, when to cut it. here is the rear right hand corner that has significant rust which is the norm for a 50+ year old vw variant

And again the same corner.

If you note there are a number of shaped panels that will be needed to repair the profile. I know lads that would lauch into this with an angle grinder and cut out every bit of rust in site, which does 2 things. It removes all the rust, and it removes all the set datum points that you have in these pictures. Before I go cutting I will remove the largest plain panel fo visual access, that does not destroy its original location points. So the most rusted area of the big side panel is cut out which gives me great visuals of the inside of the aircooling area, as well as keeps all the reference points intact. Softly softly catchee monkey😉

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005773#Comment_121005773

You mentioned a tool for aligning the hinges on the door pillars, but try as I might. I was unable to find it. If you are more successful in locating it, you might pas the Nr on, OK? Thx

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121007245#Comment_121007245

Going crazy with an angle grinder on the rust would be a rookie mistake, kadman,,,,,,but its been a long time since you were that !!! LOL 😂 🤣

kadman

In all fairness it looks like a disaster area, and you would be tempted to run forrest run.

But when you start slicing and dicing, you can see decent metal in there somewhere. Its just to get to it and rebuilding outwards.

Once you cut out the large panel, you can see what you need to see to make an assessment of the best way to proceed.

kadman

Once you have chosen the correct panel to start with, its an easy thing to re make the jigsaw. Just make sure your chosen panel is not going to be in the way of other panels when you weld it in. It would be awkward if you welded in anew metal, that would prevent you from taking out a rusted panel.

And just make sure you take plenty of pics to record reference points for any new panels you have to make

When you are sure you have enough photos and reference points recorded. Now its time to get cutting.

kadman

Remember to cut out the panel that you need to weld in first for the other panels. And you cant take too many pics. You need to be able to re assemble the part you are working on as best as you can. I re assemble the parts I cut out with masking tape so that I have a correct model to refer to with a piece that is ok size wise for this.. I didn't do the front bulkhead as they were too large. This piece is an ideal piece to mock up from the cuts.

More reference points from the bumper mount holes to the edge of the body slot which wont be moved, and up to the top channel which wont be moved either.

New panel marked with reference points on the car. You wont ever have enough reference points no matter how many you have, you will always forget one. And thats ok if you can catch it on the fly, which I can. If you cant its hair pulling out time🤣

And this is what we have been aiming for. The foundation panel to build the rest on. All the rest go onto this one. Once you get this in, you have nice new metal to work on. This is the one we are looking for, after a trial fit here, and checking the bumper mounting holes with our reference points. Houston we are good to go.😉

If you look at this corner in its entirety, it looks daunting, as does the whole of the project. You need to be able to break it down into manageable pieces. Step by step gets the job done, and you dont overwhelm your self.

Thats it for today folks, check back in on the morrow

kadman

The panel in the previous post is one of only a handful of panels that can be bought for this car. Made by WERK 34 . But definitely not a patch ( forgive the pun) on an original panel from original vw pressings. Original vw panels of which there are 2 front clips on this car, are millimetre perfect, and need no fettling at all. Jmreire will confirm that for you, there will never be a substitute for original NOS german panels. That manufacturing skill is long gone, so is good old german quality metal.

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121008195#Comment_121008195

I put up a pic of meself, and whats the first thing that happens, I get insulted. Go on you gurrier🤣😉

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121008927#Comment_121008927

Looking better already. and you are so right about the original panel's. I'm not so sure about now, if its still the same, nowadays, but I've often used what were called "Spurious" body panels IE, copies of the originals, and they were never a 100% correct fit, and no matter how many protective coatings you put on, the tin worm would always make an appearance sooner or later, but most likely, sooner. Seeing new metal appear is always a welcome milestone.

Jeff2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005411#Comment_121005411

What I mean is a pdf file to download like a manual. So you see stuff with out clicking each link.

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121008185#Comment_121008185

Funnily enough I couldn't find it either. But I am pretty sure it was there. I must go rooting again elsewhere. Any way samba has it. And it was 32 euro plus postage from the states back in 2006-2008 around then. This might jog your memory, I am sure you will remember it,

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121009847#Comment_121009847

OH yeah the bad crap is still out there. I put a new set of klokkerholm heater channels on a beetle a few years ago, and I got less than ten years out of them. And i complained to the dealer about the quality, and he said 10 years is the norm now for repro panels. The wings on the front of the variant are 100% and a hammer hops right off them, and not a bit of rust after nearly 60 years.. There are a couple of makers, Hookey, Auto craft and Alan schofields, and classic fab green panels. All great quality and good fits. But alas no Vw type 3 variants, fastbacks or notchback panels.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121009976#Comment_121009976

No, as a matter of fact, I don't ever remember using that particular tool. Could be because most of the car body repairs that I have done, would have been accident repairs rather than restoration work. And compared to restoration work, crash repairing was much more straight forward. ( but of course time critical) You would have to repair any panels that were repairable, but after that, it was new stuff all the way. Say, you had a car that was damaged on the drivers side front, so typically, new front wing, head/side lamps, front bumper and repair the valance. As the car would have been placed on a jig system to begin with, and the valance and chassis rails were back to their original factory specifications, then it was relatively straight forward from that point on to fit the wing / front panel. The finishing / painting process of course is the same for any vehicle, be it crash repairing or restoration work. But it followed that when Jigs were used, the car was restored to its original spec's, hinge alignment tools would not be needed. Then you had repair systems that were based on measurement's. These were based on the datum line ( you would be very familiar with these, kadman LOL ) this line was a reference point for every singe measurement on the car. So not sure where a particular part fitted relative to another piece? Consult the diagram. This was very useful when working on vehicles that had sub-frames with big tolerances. But once the car had been repaired using a jig system, it was not often needed.

kadman

OOOooh, what wouldn't I give to get me hands on the proper reference datum drawings of the beetle and type 3's. Manna from heaven that would be for resto work for sure. I remember when the local Cunninghams VW closed up and changed franchises. Every single vw component from washers to crankshafts went into a large about of rubbish skips and off to the landfill. I passed by when the lads were chucking in dozens of cylinders from the first floor window. And all that was to ensure there was no sudden influx of new parts on the local market to service all the beetles in the area, which were a lot. And then all buried in the landfill. Market forces at work back then.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121010439#Comment_121010439

That was nothing short of sacrilege ......dumped in a skip!!! 😒 And from a main dealership like that their parts stock would have been huge.🤬

kadman

But that was the regular procedure for government bodies as well with old stock. When board na mona switched from bsa to bultaco to honda, they did exactly the same thing will all the parts, both new and old as well as complete running bikes. Buried in the middle of the bog in rochfort bridge and other bogs in the midlands. Part of the franchise agreement, there was to be no large stock of parts released to the public under any circumstances.Its common knowledge in the midlands.

kadman

Back to the rear corner. Once the starter panel is in , its on to the next panel that connects with it. I made this one from galvanise as its a common area for rusting.Once i trial fitted the bumper mount panel i welded it in

Because of the engine still fitted to the car, access to weld from the inside of the engine bay was tight.I just managed to get a weld for about 50mm down along the front edge of the panel towards the driver. Its more than enough until the engine is out.

And remember to use earplugs whenever you are welding over head. Many a mechanic has forgotten this to his peril and lost his hearing in one ear instantly

This is the material for the new panel. I should be able to form 90% of the panel with this, and may need one or two small filler pieces. But thats easily sorted when its in.

Simple bend in the approximate place, and a mark out for the bottom scoop of the air intake allows me to place the panel against its proposed location to get some finer measurements to fit it

A bit of bashing and fettling later puts me in the ballpark to weld this panel in to place so that I can add the filler pieces later. First thing to do is to check the internal void that I am about to fill so that i can paint in any rust converter or protection thats need on existing good metal to preserve it. Most important.

Then we can weld away.

kadman

So thats the corner piece done. And I cant grind off the reminder as I cant reach it, but I am not worried, when all is said and done it will be hidden. next job is to work my way around the ducting thats rusty and needs removal.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121012835#Comment_121012835

That's a fine job. Nice and neat.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121014415#Comment_121014415

Probably in your plan anyway, but for fairly inaccessible places for using a grinder ( above is s good example ) I've often used a small cut down wire brush to clean the welds as much as possible, and then brush painted rust protection into the crevices before welding the panel on, and boxing that section in. Like I said, that's probably your plan anyway.

kadman

So the next pic is of the cut out pieces that I keep for a template of the pic, That way you can see both the end profile and the side profile.

closely inspect the next area that you consider cutting out....but dont cut it until you have the new replacement piece cut out. Its best to use the existing body shape to form it around.

Once you have the piece famed as close as you think, place it around the existing if you can. And if you are happy, plug in the angle grinder.

Once its cut out, weld in the new piece. Grind off the welds and onto the next panel tomorrow.

kadman

Any of the sections that are inaccesible but firm and just need a cleaning to remove loose rust I brush out with a wire brush, blow it out and then give it two coats of Bardhal Convert Ox, or Vactan, or Fertan. These are all convertors that convert the rust into a polymer based primer coat. When its dry and fully cured after 2 days you are left with coating that is ready for painting, some of them need the first coating with an oil based paint.

I have used the Convert ox and painted the cured coat with hammerite red oxide, and its now dried to a afirm hard coat. I find the hammerite hard to beat. When thats all ready I intend to paint all this concealed are with gravitex stone chip which seems to do the job.Of course before the stone chip I like to seam seal any welds or panel to panel faces with seam sealer brush on just to give it an extra protection on prone areas.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121019771#Comment_121019771

That should seal it up all right, hard to see it being done any better in any case. I mentioned earlier about an anti rust/corrosion wax treatment, involving a drain jetter like piece of equipment to inject it into cavities...have you ever come across similar? long 1.5 metre 1/4" flexible plastic pipe with a special jet fitted at one end, attached to a special gun, that sprayed in literally all directions when activated inside a cavity.

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121022604#Comment_121022604

I cant say i have come across a long lance for injecting into cavities, but I have considered making one when I need one. At the moment all the areas where i am working are accessible to me, luckily. I totally agree , yo cant have too much protection against rust.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121022930#Comment_121022930

Would not be that difficult to make one, 1/4" flexible plastic tubing, even a meter length would do. Then a pressure pot spray gun set up, but with shutz type head to cope with the liquid wax that's used. Most difficult might be the head...in a drain jetter, you would typically have a jet coming straight out in the head of the jet, facing forward, while there would be 4 backward facing jets, propelling the jetter forward. In the anti rust head, the outlet holes are drilled in such a way that they force the wax out in ever direction, up, down, sideways, front, and back. If you inserted one in a 20 ltr drum, in seconds it would put a coat of wax over every sq inch of the interior in a matter of seconds. It was a very effective way of rust proofing.