1967 VW Variant.

kadman

I just found out that only the right fuel tank support panel is available, and the left hand is no longer available. Which means I will have to make the left hand one as an opposite copy of the right one. Probably not as bad as it sounds as I made both on the white fastback, and from no pattern.

At least I will have a new panel to work from.

So this is the one i have to make, and i will be getting the opposite hand as a new panel. And if its not available, well then it has to be made.

kadman

Now that the inner spare wheel panel is removed you can clearly see the rust damage to be dealt with. The ends of both left and right fuel tank supports are extensively damaged and need replacement with new metal.

If it was easy then everyone would be doing it

kadman

Now that the tanks out, its easy to see the exact location of the fuel tank support panel. I will now drill out the spotwelds on the drivers side support panel, and remove it, and then make any necessary repairs to the wheelhouse bulkhead, so that its ready for the new panel when it lands.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119546758#Comment_119546758

It actually looks better when the rusted parts are removed, leaving clean metal behind.

kadman

Now that most of the driver side fuel tank support is out, its just left to clean it up and make a new bulkhead panel where the support used to sit. Its the rusted area below the blue horizontal paint line. Then panels and repair time.

You can see the remains of the cut off panel . And the new repair panel I am making will be in the rusted are from the drilled out spotwelds, downwards.

kadman

Cleaned up the bulkhead where the new panel will join to. I chose the curve of the bulkhead, as its shape will ensure that when the panel below is cut, the curved remains will retain a strong correct profile. You can see the clean bulkhead where i've marked the panel position approximately,

kadman

I just rough fitted the bulkhead panel for a trial fit. All looks well, I just need to tweak the corners and weld them, and trial fit again.

Then I need to wait for delivery of the support steel panel to make sure my panel fits it.

kadman

I welded up the bulkhead panel, and it seems fine, off now to make another. No peace for the wicked.

kadman

Just in case you are wondering the only tools I have to make the panels, is an angle grinder, few hammers and a steel bench. I borrowed the brothers bead roller to flange the two side panels and thats it.

kadman

I started to fabricate the fuel tank support panel for the left hand side that is no longer available. I have the top face done and profiled to fit against the new bulkhead. Now just have to fold it downwards, and fabricate the profile and the suspension bush area.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119556743#Comment_119556743

I doubt you learned that standard of metalwork doing your Group Cert though 😁

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119562678#Comment_119562678

Maybe not, but I learned the hand eye skills from a lifetime as an architectural joiner. Metal is just another medium to work in. And back in the day when I was growing up, it was the thing to do by the folks of yesterday. Repair everything, and throw nothing out. What was a common set of skills to all old households, fixing shoes, fixing property, to save a few bob, is disappearing fast. Now that we have become a throwaway society, its all too easy to click and collect.

Plus the fact that I couldn't buy the bloody panel, I had to make it.🤣

jmreire

An old friend of mine ( since deceased RIP) was a panel beater by trade, but old style. When it came to metal, he was a master craftsman. If a metal part was unavailable he would manufacture it, and the tools he needed to do it. The walls of his workshop had row after row of such tools hanging on it. Special tong's, former's, dolly's etc. In one corner of the workshop he had a fully functioning forge, and I saw him welding a really old ornate gate in it one time, the same way it had originally been welded. Long before you had repair systems like Car Bench, Car-O-Liner etc. he made his own one on a converted lift. He was one of the best, if not the best metal worker I have ever seen. It was amazing to see him in action....old school to the last, he always wore a shirt and tie, even while working, and wearing a long from the neck down heavy leather apron for protection.

kadman

Give me old school all day long. But they are long forgotten skills. Its all too easy with modern cars to ditch a minor repair panel, and replace it with new.

The quality of the steel used 30 years ago was far superior to the metal available now. I replaced heater channels in a beetle years ago, and had to do them a second time around within 10 years. I mentioned it to my supplier, he said 10 years is about the lifetime for modern day stuff.

I bought some new old stock panels for the variant manufactured in 1967, and a lump hammer bounces off them. New modern panels you could bend with your fingers.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563463#Comment_119563463

Very true. The tunnel housing the clutch cable etc, was not the only strength in the floor. it depended on the side ducting too. When you mention the heating ducting in the Beetles, they actually formed part of the chassis, and were an integral part of the strength of the car as a whole. Th man I mentioned in my previous post would have been a blacksmith originally, but like you he had a great eye for detail, and was highly intelligent. Modern car design did not faze him one little bit,, he well understood steering geometry and would get the suspension turrets on the valances and steering rack mounts on the front bulkhead 100%, and with pretty basic alignment tools at that. Set squares, measuring tapes and spirit levels took him a long way. As he often said motor car design car began on a draughtsman's, board with the Datum Line, with precise measurements, and that's the principle he worked on. An Uncle of my Fathers, was a master coach builder, and his primary tools were the set square, spit level and measuring tape, so I suspect my blacksmith / panel beater friend spent some time in the same trade, but easily adapted to motor vehicles, as many of them did.

Gadgetman496

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563463#Comment_119563463

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0830/1319696-repair-acts-ireland/

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563787#Comment_119563787

Generally, mass production , while making things cheaper to buy, has not made them easier to repair. and it's not in the manufacturers best financial interests to make long lasting products. I completely agree with repairing rather than replacing items, especially when it comes to cars. But this Country is completely geared to replacing rather than renewing. Not trying to derail the thread, but for example, this is enforced by the govt's attitude of collecting vat on new car sales supported by the SIMI, so that we are channeled into needlessly replacing cars that would still have plenty of Life in them. What other Countries are there that will refuse to insure a vehicle once it has passed its NCT? This thread, showing Kadmans restoration is a case in point, and when he has finished, it will have many more ears of life, I know that it's not possible to go to the extent that Kadman is going to, but there are many other cars out there, needing much less work than Kadmans VW, and are eminently doable. Yet you can see the high bodied scrap metal trucks loaded with vehicles destined for scrap yards.

Gadgetman496

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564029#Comment_119564029

I am old enough to have always been a repair instead of replacing guy and still am where possible. Unfortunately, you are correct when it comes to the shoddy quality of newer stuff, in a lot of cases they are simply not worth repairing. I don't know if 3D printing could play a part in making replacement parts for the crappy plastic parts found on almost everything these days.

Anyway, I just linked that article because it shows some people are starting to see the true value of salvaging rather than discarding where possible.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119564182#Comment_119564182

Gadgetman496, currently I live in Country where nothing that can be salvaged is thrown out....when something is eventually dumped, nothing short of a miracle would have saved it anyway. Necessity being the mother of invention, and the whole economy is geared around supplying spare parts for anything, and plenty of small one man businesses actively involved in repairing household goods. Same for cars. They will rebuild brake shoes or clutch lining's.

Hotblack Desiato

Good point about insurance. Giving owners of older cars a hard time seems to be official policy despite all the "green" talk. VAT and VRT on new cars is a big money spinner after all. Annual NCTs (our car does 3000-3500 miles a year, what vital safety issue is going to arise in that time?) and insurance loading / hassle. Where are future classics going to come from?

I'm a biker and in the motorcycling world, keeping an old bike going is the norm. e.g. I own a bike which is 32 years old (and was in production several years before that) and most parts are still easily available. I suppose frame construction, generally low annual mileage, and plastic 'bodywork' helps here.

I've also been into tech, between hobby and professionally, for 40 years now. It's easy with a bit of knowledge to keep a desktop PC going for a very long time, I know people who have kept the same case for 20 years although it'd probably be the only original part left by that time (Trigger's broom 😁 ) Laptops used to be easily upgradeable (for memory and storage, anyway) and Dell ones still are. Apple started the trend of making their computers into disposable appliances, a great shame as in the 90s theirs was the best built stuff around and easy to incrementally upgrade to keep it going. Now we have €1500-2000 MacBooks which are basically useless and unsupported after five years, soldered in memory and storage so no replacement or upgrading possible. Batteries - a part guaranteed to significantly degrade within three years - replaceable only with great difficulty. Phones and tablets are the same now from pretty much all manufacturers, thinness is all and parts are glued in and more or less impossible to repair... 🙁

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119563463#Comment_119563463

Even before computer-aided design came in (Ford of Britain started this in the 60s) they started making the steel as thin as possible. e.g. a Morris Minor has much thicker steel than a Mini even though the Minor has a chassis as well. Not that many BMC 1100/1300s have survived due to "just thick enough" steel and little rust protection (And bad CKD build quality for the Irish market) even though for much of its life it was the most popular car on the market.

On the plus side, "just thick enough" means lighter weight, better fuel economy and cheaper price. We all know the downsides. But we've an 04 Corolla which is still a pretty modern car and it just passed 54k miles on the clock 😁 and we hope to keep it going as long as possible... sails through the NCT, cheap to run, parts are a doddle, good fuel economy, low emissions, why replace it? Only hassles are ignorant insurance companies and the nearly €400 motor tax on a pre-CO2 1400...

kadman

I repair my classic cars simply because there are many years left in them, and I enjoy it. I am not into concourse restorations for a number of reasons. Mainly because I dont have to have a concourse vehicle to enjoy it. I would be afraid to drive an immaculate classic, and park it outside of Tescoes. And I'm not into trailer queens with their yearly outing to a show, and then into a locked up heated garage for another year.

I want to enjoy fixing them and driving them. Concourse is not for me because I dont have the tools, the workshop, nor the necessary skills, but I'm happy at what I do, and what I achieve....thats grand for me

kadman

Today I just located a VW Karmann Cabriolet . I enquired and there is a possibility it will be for sale in the next couple of weeks. It needs a complete restoration and there are a couple of interested parties I believe. They have dropped in price in recent years, and I see some running and driving ones selling for between 5-8K euros.

So this one might come at the right price. But if the owner thinks they have a rare valuable car, then good sense and logic will go out the window. I have explained to her a resto figure to get it driving on the road will probably start at around 15k plus, and go up from there, and she realises that.

So who knows, I might be adding to the vw stable, and I have a few weeks to break it to the missus. I will have to turn on the charm.😁

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119568302#Comment_119568302

Yes, but at the end of it, you will have "working " car that can be enjoyed. And it will be good for many years to come, you could say it's ready for round 2!!!

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571770#Comment_119571770

Now that would be something else entirely.

kadman

When you are making your own panels, if you take time to plan the fabrication you can save yourself some work. Its tempting to make a 3 sided item , in 3 pieces. If you can visualise the development of the 3 faces, you can combine them into 1 piece. And then fold along the bend lines to form the piece.

It just takes a bit of time and thinking ahead.

kadman

After preliminary folding, I tried it for a fit to the panel I made. Small bit more fettling and its good to go. I wont be fitting this tank support panel until I check it against the new panel for the other side that i am waiting on.

kadman

I had to remove the left hand tank support steelwork because it was rusted out. I needed to keep the metal bracket from inside the panel, as it was the suspension support bracket

and was made from heavy material.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119582220#Comment_119582220

The parts are coming on well. Looking very good.🙂

kadman

I managed to get the bulkhead panel and new fuel tank support panel that I made, welded together after some tenuous moments. I then welded these into the car front area. Most important points are the suspension mounting position, and fuel tank support height. I chose to install the fuel tank support in two halves. That way I could deal with the suspension mount bolt position first, and then weld in the remainder. Looks ok so far, and the opening for the fuel tank checks out.

kadman

Final tidy up tomorrow and just to add an end piece, then I am over to the other side.

kadman

I managed to get the end piece made up to fit the back of the seperating panel in the spare wheel well. I also got the side piece that attaches to it, and runs around the back of the big side panel. This was always going to be bit by bit due to the complexity of the oressings, and the cost of a complete wheelhouse panel if i went that route,

which is 1000 euros. I have left the existing rusty panel in to give me a guideline to fit the others. Now that I have a good base formed on this side, I will move over to the other side and cut out the old bulkhead, and fit the new one i made, and the fuel tank support panel, and the new end piece for it , that I also made.

I think I must be into double figures on the panels now.

kadman

I welded in the two side panels, and offered up the front clip loosely to check for alignment and hole position. Just to make doubly sure that my side panels are located in the correct position. It seems that everything is ok for the welding in of the inner panel, and then ahead with the front clip.

Its all good sofar. I found that the biggest help I have had is with the purchase of a cheap led lamp and fixing that to my welding helmet. It improved the whole welding in process 1000%. Highly recommended.

Jeff2

Great thread that I follow.

But I don't post. I'm hope you keep posting and sure you know how many follow this project and others you have.

kadman

When I bought the car I said to the previous owner that I would post the resto on boards as it all started here, and thats what I have done, and will continue as long as it takes.

I noticed one or two things during the resto so far. On of the most important things to do with any welding you have ahead of you, is keep the wire brush at hand. I constantly brush the area I intend to weld to keep it clean. I then weld the small area, take a look and check it, brush it again, rinse and repeat. I find it makes a massive difference to the welding. I never was as vigilant before during my welding, and as a result it often was a bit hit and miss messy, that I wasn't happy with. Now I dont have any hesitation in welding any area of the car, big or small parts, because I know if I take my time, keep it clean I will get a good result.

Now that I have the front nearly ready for its final welding, thats my goal for the week, to get both large panels spotted into their correct place. And then to fully weld where I need to. I'm in no rush, just careful progress, whatever time it takes.

jmreire

Front looking really well now. be good to get that awkward bit front of the valances and tank support done.

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119622400#Comment_119622400

On the back burner for a week. Have to do an abstract art piece of yew sculpture for a wedding.

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119623426#Comment_119623426

Seeing as it's in a good cause, we will forgive you....☺️

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119624113#Comment_119624113

Well its not something I can out of.....its the sons wedding, after staying with the school sweetheart for 18 years................now he decides to ask her🤣🤣🤣😁

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119624352#Comment_119624352

Nope. You are snookered !!!! Wishing the Happy Couple all the Best for a long and Happy Life !!! Have a great day, and forget all about VW's of all shapes and sizes !!!🤗

Hotblack Desiato

Will the other Variant be pressed into service on the big day? 😀

Gadgetman496

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119623426#Comment_119623426

Don't forget to show us the abstract art piece when it's done 😉

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625391#Comment_119625391

In my best Darth Vadar accent " Obi Wan you know this to be true"😀

I offered the blue variant as a rat look alternative....and was told " Dont you dare bring that fooking yolk to the wedding"....Phlistines😁

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625477#Comment_119625477

There4, work in progress. Now go away and let me finish it

😀

jmreire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625637#Comment_119625637

When it comes to unvarnished "in your face criticism", it's hard to beat your own....😏😏🙄🙄

New Home

@kadman, you've got competition.

Quick q - is expanding foam flammable? Asking for a friend...

jmreire

With all due respect for the obviously talented individual who first had the "vision" and then the necessary talent to transform this MB into what it is now, I think I'll pass. Sculped expanding foam would not do it for me ( except maybe as a model of an immovable concept ) But a living active roadworthy vehicle? Nein, Herr Schon!!!🙄😏

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625477#Comment_119625477

Just finishing now,

Gadgetman496

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681864#Comment_119681864

You're gifted kadman.

kadman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119681890#Comment_119681890

The beauty of the timber helped me a long way on this one, plus a bit of patience😉