Ireland to contribute €16 billion more than it receives to EU in next 7 years

listermint

10000maniacs wrote: »

I don't know what free education had to do with the topic in hand either. Yet you brought it up.

If you can't see what was meant then my point has been made.

The arguments made in this thread as a worrisome who's who of idoicy.


Herman levels of misunderstanding.


You lads wouldn't have an absolute breeze how this country would survive outside the eu common market. That much is bloody clear. You've had it good your entire lifes that's the problem here.

listermint

You know what the say.



Wax patriots, they melt away when it gets hot.

Graham

10000maniacs wrote: »

I think we paid most of the balance of that equation when the EU precluded the Irish from imposing haircuts on unguaranteed bondholders of insolvent banks.

I think you've been confused into thinking economic suicide on a global stage would somehow have been a good thing.

Luckily it didn't happen and it's not looking likely that we'll follow the UK lemming style jumping off a cliff.

10000maniacs

Graham wrote: »

I think you've been confused into thinking economic suicide on a global stage would somehow have been a good thing.

Luckily it didn't happen and it's not looking likely that we'll follow the UK lemming style jumping off a cliff.

I think the EU would be good for Ireland if they played fair and our leaders fought a little harder for fairer deals. But all I see is the word MUG etched on our politicians' foreheads.

c.p.w.g.w

Seriously what are Spain & Italy at...

They have both being on the brink of collapse for years, their getting lots of EU money, what is it being spent on...Genuine question?

10000maniacs

listermint wrote: »

If you can't see what was meant then my point has been made.

The arguments made in this thread as a worrisome who's who of idoicy.


Herman levels of misunderstanding.


You lads wouldn't have an absolute breeze how this country would survive outside the eu common market. That much is bloody clear. You've had it good your entire lifes that's the problem here.

Luckily there are no questions in there.

Graham

10000maniacs wrote: »

I think the EU would be good for Ireland if they played fair and our leaders fought a little harder for fairer deals. But all I see is the word MUG etched on our politicians' foreheads.

Hmmmm

It would be interesting to see where we'd be now if we hadn't joined the EU.

I think as a nation we've done pretty well so far but you are of course perfectly entitled to feel hard done to because we don't always get everything our own way.

Fortunately our EU membership doesn't appear to be up for consideration outside the 'fringes'.

Clarence Boddiker

You know Ireland is doomed when people are arguing in favour of almost the worst deal imaginable.
Irish people are, lets face it, incredibly weak minded, utterly cowardly, profoundly submissive, prone to deference to authority and extremely prone to Stockholm syndrome.
They were during the reign of the Church and they are now during the reign of the Eu...nothing whatsoever has changed.

A nation that cannot stick up for itself and its own children is doomed.

10000maniacs

Graham wrote: »

Hmmmm

It would be interesting to see where we'd be now if we hadn't joined the EU.

I think as a nation we've done pretty well so far but you are of course perfectly entitled to feel hard done to because we don't always get everything our own way.

Fortunately our EU membership doesn't appear to be up for consideration outside the 'fringes'.

We were pretty much up the creek without a paddle for the first 18 years of being in the EU. We had an unemployment rate of 17% in 1987. Thank you EEC.
Then Haughey brought in new labour laws and reduced income tax. The big multinational companies took notice and started opening up here enticed by a 12.5 percent corporate tax rate, and tax loopholes. Very little to be thankful for to the EU so far.
Ok some of the multinational corporations saw this as a stepping stone into the EU. But without that 12.5% corporate tax rate, they wouldn't have bothered in the first place.
I think personally we would have been ok without the EU. Well, it couldn't have been much worse than for most of the 70's and 80's. I mean 17% unemployment and all of our best qualified people emigrating.



.

ExMachina1000

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

You know Ireland is doomed when people are arguing in favour of almost the worst deal imaginable.
Irish people are, lets face it, incredibly weak minded, utterly cowardly, profoundly submissive and prone to deference to authority and extremely prone to Stockholm syndrome.
They were during the reign of the Church and they are during the reign of the Eu...nothing whatsoever has changed.

A nation that cannot stick up for itself and its own children is doomed.

I doubt the EU upper powers particularly like Ireland because the multi nationals are based here. They might feel the bloc is losing out. Ireland isn't sharing they might think

Graham

10000maniacs wrote: »

Then Haughey brought in new labour laws and reduced income tax. The big multinational companies took notice and started opening up here enticed by a 12.5 percent corporate tax rate, and tax loopholes. Very little to be thankful for to the EU so far.

I wouldn't have thought it necessary to point out membership of the EU had a major part in attracting the multinationals.

10000maniacs

Graham wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought it necessary to point out membership of the EU had a major part in attracting the multinationals.

I did kind of mention it in the sentence you didn't quote.
"Ok some of the multinational corporations saw this as a stepping stone into the EU. But without that 12.5% corporate tax rate, they wouldn't have bothered in the first place."
But in the early days, most of the product was getting shipped back to the USA anyway. So the EU was a factor but not a huge factor.

Graham

10000maniacs wrote: »

some of the multinational corporations saw this as a stepping stone into the EU

The rest came here for the love of green fields and dairygold?

ExMachina1000

There is a hierarchy in every other human group.

The EU is no different. Germany and France dominate. They are the strongest. Ireland is a wealthy outlier who is also connected to the Us and will protect its tax status. Germany and France want this to change.

We are being sanctioned through the back door.

Clarence Boddiker

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I doubt the EU upper powers particularly like Ireland because the multi nationals are based here. They might feel the bloc is losing out. Ireland isn't sharing they might think

I have a feeling that the only reason Ireland is still getting away with that is because of the enormous power of the Multinationals. If it was up to the EU our advantage would be gone tomorrow.

10000maniacs

Graham wrote: »

The rest came here for the love of green fields and dairygold?

They wouldn't have come here without the 12.5% corporate tax rate which was despised by the EU.

Graham

10000maniacs wrote: »

They wouldn't have come here without the 12.5% corporate tax rate which was despised by the EU.

It's almost as if low tax rates and EU membership were a good combination.

ExMachina1000

Clarence Boddiker wrote: »

I have a feeling that the only reason Ireland is still getting away with that is because of the enormous power of the Multinationals. If it was up to the EU our advantage would be gone tomorrow.

Steps would definitely be taken to harmonize tax. They make no secret about wanting to do it either

10000maniacs

Graham wrote: »

It's almost as if low tax rates and EU membership were a good combination.

Almost. I would say OK. We would have been fine without the EU. Especially in the first 20 years where we couldn't have been much worse off to be fair.

Graham

10000maniacs wrote: »

Almost. I would say OK. We would have been fine without the EU. Especially in the first 20 years where we couldn't have been much worse off to be fair.

I guess we're just lucky there aren't many this side of the water drunk on the Farage cool aid.

Clarence Boddiker

Graham wrote: »

I guess we're just lucky there aren't many this side of the water drunk on the Farage cool aid.

This is the Stockholm Syndrome is was talking about..

KyussB

I suppose it's time for Dublin to demand that the rest of Ireland balances its budget, and stop depending on subsidies from Dublin, right?

Sharing a currency without the higher-growth regions(*) subsidizing regions which do not grow as fast, means that lower-growth regions decline permanently. Much like would happen if Dublin did not subsidize the rest of Ireland.

That's why the Euro is broken, without fiscal transfers.

(*) Not the same as tax-haven inflated growth figures.

10000maniacs

Graham wrote: »

I guess we're just lucky there aren't many this side of the water drunk on the Farage cool aid.

This thread is very close to becoming a GoFundMe for the EU.

Millionaire only not

10000maniacs wrote: »

This thread is very close to becoming a GoFundMe for the EU.

That’s good - lol

Podge_irl

10000maniacs wrote: »

They wouldn't have come here without the 12.5% corporate tax rate which was despised by the EU.

It is still despised by "the EU" - which, again, continues to be a misnomer in these discussions as if it is some ethereal body as opposed to a group of which we are a constituent part.

However, they can't do anything about it without our say so. So we retain power over it, retain the benefits of it and in return we have to pay our fair share into the EU bucket. Seems perfectly fair to me.

Podge_irl

Mallory Mysterious Fudge wrote: »

They've (France) have actually overtaken Greece (which is saying something), as the next favourite to leave (after Italy of course).
Macron is quickly loosing popularity.

:rolleyes:

None of them are remotely close to even holding any kind of initial steps towards leaving.

Graham

KyussB wrote: »

Sharing a currency without the higher-growth regions(*) subsidizing regions which do not grow as fast, means that lower-growth regions decline permanently. Much like would happen if Dublin did not subsidize the rest of Ireland.

Stop with the logic, you'll disturb the Irexiters.

10000maniacs

10000maniacs wrote: »

I think we paid most of the balance of that equation when the EU precluded the Irish from imposing haircuts on unguaranteed bondholders of insolvent banks.
The cost in hardship to this nation is still being felt today.

Do you realise who the main bondholders were?

10000maniacs

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Do you realise who the main bondholders were?

Mostly French, German, Swiss and UK Asset Management and investment fund portfolios.
The full list is online somewhere.
We would have saved €10 Billion+ by burning them. And we should have.




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JohnnyFlash

There's very little room for context in the outrage engine rooms of social media. Ireland is a corrupt shíthole; our health care and housing issues are exclusive to us; the politicians are only getting elected so they can make money, and everything is terrible.

The reality is we went from being the poorest country in Western Europe when we got our independence, to now being a country ranked 3rd in the Human Development Index. An extraordinary success.

Much of that is down to our membership of the European Union. We now have to contribute back to it. We can never really repay what it did for Ireland.