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Ireland to contribute €16 billion more than it receives to EU in next 7 years

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    #152
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    10 years ago, the Troika were forcing us to cut €2 billion in spending per year.
    Now we all see what they were up to. The property charges, water charges and universal social charge, wage cuts. It was all to pay the EU.


    Nothing at all to do with a global financial crash and needing to pay for stuff like water?


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    #153
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Graham wrote: »
    Nothing at all to do with a global financial crash and needing to pay for stuff like water?

    its all interlinked, we decided to ultimately kick cans down the road, particularly since the crash, and we re slowly catching up with them now, this ll get interesting!


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    #154
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Graham wrote: »
    Nothing at all to do with a global financial crash and needing to pay for stuff like water?
    The EU already got their pound of flesh from us over that. Massive interest rates on their loans and forcing us to pay back the unsecured bondholders.
    I think this is what it's about
    "If you can't increase the 12.5% for multinationals, tax the people instead. We want it one way or the other."


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    #155
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    The EU already got their pound of flesh from us over that. Massive interest rates on their loans and forcing us to pay back the unsecured bondholders.
    I think this is what it's about
    "If you can't increase the 12.5% for multinationals, tax the people instead. We want it one way or the other."

    again, i think this is a failure in human thinking more than anything, we re still more or less stuck in trickle down thinking, all of our economic systems and processes are effectively stuck in this thinking, the problem is us humans as a whole and our thinking


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    #156
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    Kalico92 wrote: »
    The UK was also a net contributor and left partly based on this argument. Do we really need to entertain the idea that we'd be better off without the EU?

    Yes we should always keep an open mind on leaving the EU.

    We should always not only entertain the idea but if and when public opinion changes then we should then leave the EU After a referendum of course.


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    #157
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    The EU already got their pound of flesh from us over that.

    Some would say it was a mess of our own making and access to cheap EU money to get out of it rather than expensive alternative borrowing was a good thing.


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    #158
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,920 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    Graham wrote: »
    Some would say it was a mess of our own making and access to cheap EU money to get out of it rather than expensive alternative borrowing was a good thing.

    It was a good thing for somebody. Definitely good for Spain, Portugal, Italy and Poland. Not so much for us. :)


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    #159
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    mick087 wrote: »
    Yes we should always keep an open mind on leaving the EU.

    We should always not only entertain the idea but if and when public opinion changes then we should then leave the EU After a referendum of course.

    at the moment, it would be a dreadful idea, it would probably lead to a catastrophic collapse of our economy which we may never recover from, but things can and do change.
    Graham wrote: »
    Some would say it was a mess of our own making and access to cheap EU money to get out of it rather than expensive alternative borrowing was a good thing.

    it was of course partially our own making, but it truly was deep eu and global institutional failure within our political, economic and financial institutions, and we havent changed much there, we re simply defaulting, which probably wont end well for us all


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    #160
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    It was a good thing for somebody. Definitely good for Spain, Portugal, Italy and Poland. Not so much for us. :)

    You did mention your preference for international financial suicide.

    I disagreed then too.


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    #161
    NoviGlitzko
    Registered Users Posts: 2,582 ✭✭✭NoviGlitzko


    listermint wrote: »
    This is one of those threads


    Isn't it.


    They come along often and I struggle to see where our free education went to.
    I don't remember learning anything about the EU in school.


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    #162
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    NoviGlitzko wrote: »
    I don't remember learning anything about the EU in school.

    i actually did in college, bored the bollocks outta most of us


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    #163
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Ireland is being sanctioned through the back door.
    The EU (Germany and France) are not one bit happy with our tax status and multinational hub.
    The recent apple ruling rubbed salt in the wound.

    London is the capital of European finance
    Ireland is the hub of European multinational tax legal avoidance .

    Is it now 1 in 6 euro collected by the exchequer comes from multinationals?
    When that bubble pops Ireland is up shīt creek


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    #164
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    Ireland is being sanctioned through the back door.

    Do you think all net contributors all being sanctioned through the back door?


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    #165
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Graham wrote: »
    Do you think all net contributors all being sanctioned through the back door?

    No just Ireland


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    #166
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,401 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    No just Ireland

    Do you think membership of the EU is worth more or less than 2Bn a year to the Irish economy?


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    #167
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Do you think membership of the EU is worth more or less than 2Bn a year to the Irish economy?

    More.

    Do you think 2 billion a year is worth more for public spending in Ireland for the irish taxpayers or send to Brussels


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    #168
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    More.

    Do you think 2 billion a year is worth more for public spending in Ireland for the irish taxpayers or send to Brussels

    we cannot survive without the eu, we would be crushed if we left


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    #169
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    we cannot survive without the eu, we would be crushed if we left

    We are a net contributor now


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    #170
    I see sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 1,782 ✭✭✭I see sheep


    TuringBot47 wrote: »
    I'd be all for helping the EU as a whole.
    But when liberal countries in the EU allow an influx of non-EU immigrants from Africa and Middle East countries, typically through the southern EU countries and we have to subsidize that, there has to be a point to say stop. I'd say at some point in the future there will need to be military intervention to stop uncontrolled migration of Africans to Europe.

    We are we letting Africans into the EU and even into Ireland ?
    Who is behind it ?
    Is it nameless economists trying to say we need to import more people to meet pension and workforce demands ? If that's the case it's better to subsidize existing EU citizens to have larger families.
    If it's some liberal bleeding heart thing to let "refugees" in, then women and children should be let in, not adult men.
    Although that brings about it's own problems, with single mothers not able to control their teenage sons.


    I've read about broad conspiracy theories about trying to get other countries to start to accept Africans because climate change is going to force non-Equatorial countries to accept massive numbers of them in the next 50 years with climate change.


    Look at all the adverts on TV... they're slipping in happy family images of interracial couples every 15 minutes. Who is behind that ?
    Is it just lazy marketing... trying to throw in as many market segments into one advert scene? Or just English marketing, where they had 40 or 50 years of mixed marriages from their colonial past and immigration policies.

    Conspiracy Theory forum this ****e


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    #171
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    We are a net contributor now

    maybe true, but leaving is not an option, i suspect the uk is gonna find this out very soon, baring in mind, they were only half in, we re full in


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    #172
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    maybe true, but leaving is not an option, i suspect the uk is gonna find this out very soon, baring in mind, they were only half in, we re full in

    The UK want to leave. Europe said ok. Europe said you must not undercut us and must stick to EU standards. UK said no we are leaving. We are independent we can do as we please. EU say no.

    Hotel California

    I didn't mention anything about us leaving. Debate is possible regarding eu budget contributions without spitting the dummy and leaving.


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    #173
    uptherebels
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    We are a net contributor now

    And?


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    #174
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    The UK want to leave. Europe said ok. Europe said you must not undercut us and must stick to EU standards. UK said no we are leaving. We are independent we can do as we please. EU say no.

    Hotel California

    I didn't mention anything about us leaving. Debate is possible regarding eu budget contributions without spitting the dummy and leaving.

    i will agree that the eu is a hotel california situation, but we re in desperate need of its reform, wont be easy though


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    #175
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    i will agree that the eu is a hotel california situation, but we re in desperate need of its reform, wont be easy though

    EU is only going to become more centralized. Brussels will take more and more power from countries. The decisions come from Brussels. The entire bloc now owes money and that is the leverage that will be used to make decisions.

    Sovereignty is disappearing. That's the price of being part of a hugely successful economic union. You don't get a choice.

    All in all we are definitely better off being in Europe but we will do as we are told


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    #176
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    EU is only going to become more centralized. Brussels will take more and more power from countries. The decisions come from Brussels. The entire bloc now owes money and that is the leverage that will be used to make decisions.

    Sovereignty is disappearing. That's the price of being part of a hugely successful economic union. You don't get a choice

    good points, but the more power and control centralizes, the more tension will be created within the union, hopefully current eu deals(funding etc) are the beginning of the union truly uniting, we ll see


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    #177
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    good points, but the more power and control centralizes, the more tension will be created within the union, hopefully current eu deals(funding etc) are the beginning of the union truly uniting, we ll see

    There will never be true unity. There are too many different cultures and opinions. Anyone who goes against the forced rule from Brussels is made to be a villain. I predict a constant steady rise of anti eu sentiment. We are seeing it throughout Europe already. If a euro sceptic party takes control in France at next election all bets are off


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    #178
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    The UK want to leave. Europe said ok. Europe said you must not undercut us and must stick to EU standards in exchange for access to the single market. UK said no we are leaving. We are independent we can do as we please. EU say no trade deal in that case.

    I fixed that for you to make your statement at least somewhat accurate. It's amazing you still don't understand what the arguments are between the UK and EU are after 4 years.


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    #179
    KyussB
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭KyussB


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    i actually did in college, bored the bollocks outta most of us
    Seems to almost be by design tbh.


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    #180
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,559 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    There will never be true unity. There are too many different cultures and opinions. Anyone who goes against the forced rule from Brussels is made to be a villain. I predict a constant steady rise of anti eu sentiment. We are seeing it throughout Europe already. If a euro sceptic party takes control in France at next election all bets are off

    true, there probably will never be 100% unity, whatever that even means, but cultural differences are good, and should be protected, encouraged to survive and be shared. if we can create processes and systems to share the wealth better in the eu, it would probably reduce rising tensions across the union. yup the rise of euro skepticism is lethal for us all, even the more wealthier countries of the eu, we all need each other


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    #181
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    sameoldname wrote: »
    I fixed that for you to make your statement at least somewhat accurate. It's amazing you still don't understand what the arguments are between the UK and EU are after 4 years.

    UK leaving on wto rules and the EU having zero say in how the UK operates seems the best option so.

    Sovereignty of uk fishing waters also


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