Pippa Hackett

TallGlass2

Could someone share what these lads are doing exactly that's worth 140,000 euro a year of tax payers money?

One lad seemingly asks lads to attend votes and dabbles in a bit of the Gaeltacht and Sport.

TallGlass2

Also it is utterly bizarre that you can be given a 'Ministry' or Super Junior Minister with magical powers and not even be elected by the public to be there. What business has Pippa got in the Dail the public haven't voted for her to be there in anyway shape or form?

Pherekydes

Yurt! wrote: »

FG are among the worst offenders for this carry on and you know it. Enda Kenny was apparently livid when the last government was formed and a tonne of relatives were hired as staffers / drivers etc.

Curious as to who those who object to this practice would hire in the same position?

KiKi III

TallGlass2 wrote: »

Also it is utterly bizarre that you can be given a 'Ministry' or Super Junior Minister with magical powers and not even be elected by the public to be there. What business has Pippa got in the Dail the public haven't voted for her to be there in anyway shape or form?

She’s not in the Dail. She’s a senator who has been promoted to Cabinet. She was elected to the Senate unopposed on the Agricultural Panel, not appointed.

chrisd2019

Patrick2010 wrote: »

A year ago she scraped in as a Councillor on the 7th count in Offaly. After 3 months she was put in the senate by Eamonn Ryan on 68k.
Meanwhile her husband got her Councillor seat without having to stand for election.
Pippa runs in the general election but failed.
Then Eamonn decided Pippa was so talented she should now be a super junior minister on 123k, not bad for an unelected TD.
Snouts in trough?

That is the problem with democracy, we the public elect the wrong people in the eyes of some parties. The greens are no different to any other party. Plenty of examples in their Dail and Seanad of people who fail at an election but got handed a consolation prize.

The Greens may as well gather the coins while they can, because their latest stint in government will end like their last one. Of course TDs get redundancy payments also

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

A cancer!! Jesus, dude, you live in one of the fairest, most wealthy, equal, safe, and decent countries on the planet. Not Somalia.

Context, my friend. Context.

Crony people leeching off the tax payer shouldn't be excused. 'Ah sure' attitude has us under FF/FG for generations.

The FF/FG election posters should read: "vote FF/FG, it could be worse"

Edgware

expectationlost wrote: »

I don't think they hand it back the state though same with SF

They donate 50% to the Ukranian Retired Tractor Factory Worker Hardship Fund

Edgware

KiKi III wrote: »

Had a quick Google. As a farmer who’s extensively educated I’m glad she’s risen quickly through the ranks to where her abilities can make an impact; she seems well qualified for the remit she’s been given.

Those litter bins in the Cabinet room will be emptied a lot more quicker now she's around

KaneToad

Homelander wrote: »

It does annoy me greatly that she was plonked into the Seanad with barely any political experience and then bumped to Super-Junior despite having been recently rejected by the electorate in the recent election.

I don't think they should be allowed promote non-TD's to ministerial positions. It's mental that someone can barely scrape into a council seat in their own local area, be rejected by the electorate at the polls, and end up at Cabinet anyway.

I'd like if we had a system where you voted for the party/grouping most closely aligned to your political beliefs and they appointed the public representatives. Taking the personalities out of politics would be no harm. Tougher but necessary decisions are more likely to be made by someone who isn't in a popularity contest.

Yurt2

Pherekydes wrote: »

Curious as to who those who object to this practice would hire in the same position?

Some (ethical) TDs hire openly recruit for parliamentary assistants. My understanding is some parties (not the big 2) match newly elected TDs with party activists.

In Westminster the family hire practice is rightly taboo and the parties don't tolerate it.

TallGlass2

Another thought. The ranting of equality for equal pay with the other Super Minister. So are they going to sort out the pay inequality within the public sectors where differences in pay exist due to tiered pay systems in Nursing, Teaching, Gaurds, Bus Driving etc.... Not a chance until it comes to their own. Utter bollix.

StackSteevens

Yurt! wrote: »

My understanding is some parties (not the big 2) match newly elected TDs with party activists.

Presumably you're referring, obliquely, to SF whose TDs are told who to appoint.

A vastly superior system, right enough. :rolleyes:

Rodney Bathgate

StackSteevens wrote: »

Presumably you're referring, obliquely, to SF whose TDs are told who to appoint.

A vastly superior system, right enough. :rolleyes:

They are told who to ‘elect’ as party leader so this shouldn’t come as a surprise.

StackSteevens

TallGlass2 wrote: »

Another thought. The ranting of equality for equal pay with the other Super Minister. So are they going to sort out the pay inequality within the public sectors where differences in pay exist due to tiered pay systems in Nursing, Teaching, Gaurds, Bus Driving etc.... Not a chance until it comes to their own. Utter bollix.

Surely the employees in the sectors that you list have got Unions to argue their cases for them? It's hardly the government's fault that so many paid trade union officials are completely incompetent.

Rodney Bathgate

StackSteevens wrote: »

Surely the employees in the sectors that you list have got Unions to argue their cases for them? It's hardly the government's fault that so many paid trade union officials are completely incompetent.

The trade unions protected their ‘current’ members (at the time) at the expense of ‘future’ members by agreeing deals. But the government is to blame for the trade unions selling out ‘future’ members.

Joeseph Balls

She was on local radio a few months back giving it the whole electric cars are the way forward, go green etc, until the DJ said to her 'Did you not drive here in a big Landcruiser jeep?'

She's not too popular in the local area.

LawBoy2018

Which party will the younger greens flock to, do ye think?

StackSteevens

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

Which party will the younger greens flock to, do ye think?

Which ever one is offering the most free booze - and other substances.

TallGlass2

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

The trade unions protected their ‘current’ members (at the time) at the expense of ‘future’ members by agreeing deals. But the government is to blame for the trade unions selling out ‘future’ members.

The government is the one who mentioned equality as the arguement for this increase so they are to blame. They are also the ones who voted to make the pay equal. Why are they not doing the same across the entire public sector instead of limiting to Super Junior Minister pay? They are also the ones who set pay scales for the public sector.

Yurt2

StackSteevens wrote: »

Presumably you're referring, obliquely, to SF whose TDs are told who to appoint.

A vastly superior system, right enough. :rolleyes:

Which do you prefer? You've made it and either or, so state your case

Annasopra

taytobreath wrote: »

I thought pbp take the industrial wage

No

They take the full wage and give the rest to the party

Annasopra

KiKi III wrote: »

She’s not in the Dail. She’s a senator who has been promoted to Cabinet. She was elected to the Senate unopposed on the Agricultural Panel, not appointed.

She was elected unopposed on a Seanad bye election and then elected again opposed on a Seanad general election.

KiKi III

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

She was elected unopposed on a Seanad bye election and then elected again opposed on a Seanad general election.

Hardly her fault she was elected unopposed?

Seems like a decent sort, highly educated, scientific background combined with life as a farmer giving her practical experience.

Yes, she’s risen the ranks remarkably quickly, but that alone isn’t a good enough reason to dismiss her if she’s a good fit for the role.

mikeym

The Green party Td's dont give two hoots about the environment once they get their dirty snouts into Dail Eireann.

They need to realise that money generated from Road Tax and Fuel are lining their Green Pockets.

We had the chance to scrap the Seanad, its a waste of taxpayers money.

a very cool kid

Edgware wrote: »

I know but those honest socially responsible people in Sinn Fein give most of theirs to the Party

No they don't! Not at all

StackSteevens

Yurt! wrote: »

Which do you prefer? You've made it and either or, so state your case

What kind of an arrogant, self-important, little maggot are you to imagine for an instant that you have the authority to instruct me to "make my case"?

The bloody nerve of you :mad: I'll do no such thing.

RoversCeltic

mikeym wrote: »

The Green party Td's dont give two hoots about the environment once they get their dirty snouts into Dail Eireann.

They need to realise that money generated from Road Tax and Fuel are lining their Green Pockets.

We had the chance to scrap the Seanad, its a waste of taxpayers money.

no such thing as road tax

Homelander

KiKi III wrote: »

Hardly her fault she was elected unopposed?

You do realise how Seanad elections work?

She was basically elected on that panel by a handful of Councillors. It's not like local authority or Dáil elections where the public have the say on who's elected.

So now you have someone sitting at the Cabinet that, not only have they not been elected by the public and have barely any political experience....

They were recently expressly rejected by the public at the polls?

Yet here they are, with a lovely salary top-up as well to boot.

Doesn't sit right with me at all and there's a reason it almost never happens.

I'm not anti-FF, FG, or Green in general and I do believe in the need for stable Government, but this coalition thus far has been a bad joke.

KiKi III

Homelander wrote: »

You do realise how Seanad elections work?

She was basically elected on that panel by a handful of Councillors. It's not like local authority or Dáil elections where the public have the say on who's elected.

So now you have someone sitting at the Cabinet that, not only have they not been elected by the public and have barely any political experience....

They were recently expressly rejected by the public at the polls?

Yet here they are, with a lovely salary top-up as well to boot.

Doesn't sit right with me at all and there's a reason it almost never happens.

I'm not anti-FF, FG, or Green in general and I do believe in the need for stable Government, but this coalition thus far has been a bad joke.

None of that has any relevance to the point I made, which is that she didn’t create the system that elected her. The Seanad isn’t a particularly democratic institution, the Taoiseach gets 11 nominees who can be absolutely anyone including people with zero political experience and those who have recently lost out on GE seats.

None of that is a reflection on this person. She should be judged on her merits; she has a degree, a Masters and a PhD which suggests to me that she’s intelligent and hardworking. She’s a farmer which seems directly relevant to the brief she’s been given. She’s likely far more qualified for her brief than many of the others in cabinet, but you’re happy to dismiss all that because you don’t like how she got there.

Homelander

Well, you could argue what's the point of democratic elections so if they can be side stepped in this fashion?

Pippa Hackett was rejected by the electorate. It doesn't matter how she got in or who made the system, that doesn't make it right that she wound up at Cabinet with zero experience and after being rejected by our incredibly fair PR STV system.

I never once claimed she's not capable or intelligent, that is not the point.

The Seanad "elections" are bad enough, and personally I would be happy to see it abolished, but that's a different story - as is someone leapfrogging from a Council seat they barely got voted into, to a €140K Cabinet seat after losing a GE a few months previous.

This particular method of getting a Senator into cabinet was only used twice in the entire history of Irish politics since 1922.

And the times it was used, were very different times, culturally, socially, politically, far removed from the standards to which politicians are held today and the invasive scrutiny they are placed under.

That tells you all you need to know - it's generally not used, as a) it's largely unnecessary anyway and b) generally inappropriate in any case as it undermines our system of electing public officials.

I mean, where do you draw the line? What if Leo Varadkar loses his seat in the next GE? Would it be OK to put him in the Seanad and then sneak him back into Cabinet via the constitution backdoor anyway, who cares what people vote for?

Somehow I don't think anyone would be OK with that.