How safe is the world with Putin Trump and Johnson in charge?

Gruffalox

Gruffalox wrote: »

Per million Sweden has suffered 40% more Covid deaths than America and I am pretty certain that without googling you cannot tell me the name of Sweden's Prime Minister.

You'll also find that the likes of the US and Chile are showing the fastest growth in numbers. So the US is only around 450 deaths per million and Sweden is at 564 deaths per million. Which is not 40% more deaths per million. It's also not a great sign when you're saying they're currently performing better than a country that handled covid atrociously.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When exactly did you complete your arts degree and what university?

UCC in 2013, so I'm pretty confident you are buying into propaganda.

Carfacemandog

Carfacemandog wrote: »

It's pretty gas seeing people clamour to claim Trump has been great for jobs and putting money in people's pockets while 30mn Americans are unemployed and getting next to no help from their federal government over it.

He did a good job not messing up the economy his predecessor built, but when faced with a proper challenge it fell apart like a house of cards.

Along with many other economies. Ridiculous comment. the US owed tens of trillions to China long before Trump took office.

Cabaal

Gruffalox wrote: »

Per million Sweden has suffered 40% more Covid deaths than America and I am pretty certain that without googling you cannot tell me the name of Sweden's Prime Minister.

How's that whatabouttery going?

The topic is about Putin, Trump or Johnson.

Trump inactions have resulted in a whole lot of innocent people dieing on US soil who would otherwise not have died.

Irishman80

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

They told us he'd start WW3 also.

Yes, similar to how they told us Iraq had WMDs. Media organisations were essential to building support for that invasion.

Places like the NYT should have been shuttered and prosecuted after that. I still remember this pathetic response by the war criminals at the NYT.

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/26/world/from-the-editors-the-times-and-iraq.html

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

You'll also find that the likes of the US and Chile are showing the fastest growth in numbers. So the US is only around 450 deaths per million and Sweden is at 564 deaths per million. Which is not 40% more deaths per million. It's also not a great sign when you're saying they're currently performing better than a country that handled covid atrociously.


UCC in 2013, so I'm pretty confident you are buying into propaganda.

or maybe its a more recent thing than 2013. we now have quota's being proposed in many sectors which has been actually reported in the mainstream which werent around in 2013. The world has changed quite a bit since then.
Considering all the big tech companies and mainstream media companies are reporting the news as they see it as opposed to what happens, id be interested to know where you think im being indoctrinated? :rolleyes:

s1ippy

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058098478/1/#post114112264
I posted a thread about this the other day.

We're truly buggered.

Carfacemandog

Deleted User wrote: »

What about Italy, and Spain? What about the clusters of deaths in nursing homes here? Who do you blame for those???? Trump again i suppose???

How do you propose the economy is going to rebuild after all this is over??? if we all continue to be locked down, there is only a certain amount of money that can keep the globe going. When the money runs out, what then?

Places like Spain and Italy got hammered right at the start when none of us really knew much about the virus, and also have amongst the oldest average populations in the world.

Italy's numbers have dropped back down to about 200-300 a day, which would be about 1,200-1,600 scaling up to the US' population. Spain had theirs under control but look like they may have messed it up again, back to about 2,000 cases a day - scaling up to the US population would see them at about 14,000 cases a day.

The US has about one eighth the population ndensity of these two countries, had a huge advantage of preparation time outside of NY/NJ, but did very little to prepare and instead had a president calling it a "hoax" launched by his political opponents, and that it would "go away like a miracle" before calling on his supporters to stage armed uprisings to 'liberate' states who had imposed lockdowns that the federal government had refused to.

As a result the US is now getting 65,000-70,000 cases per day. It has a higher per capita rate than Italy, Spain and all but a tiny handful of countries in the world). Only 2 or 3 months ago you would quite frequently hear it pointed out that Ireland had a higher per capita case count than the US, as of today theirs is about 2.5 times higher than ours. A few days from now, New York won't even have the 3rd highest per capita case amount in the US, with Louisiana, Arizona and Florida on all just about caught up on that front.

Sweden's handling of this has also been dreadful, but that doesn't stop the fact that Trump has dealt with this worse than any head of state outside of possibly Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil. Along with using secret police on his own citizens and gassing the likes of the clergy, its been a big reason why his approval ratings have nosedive over the last two or three months.

bnt

“The World” will be fine. It was here before people were, and it will be here after we’re gone.

Most of the people in the world will be fine too. That isn’t to say that there will never be wars. The idea of Trump as a warmonger is a “straw man”: he doesn’t have the Defense industry connections that Bush & co. had (think Dick Cheney & Halliburton). Instead, however, he could be seen as an enabler, allowing e.g. China to expand its influence in the South China Sea or Putin in the Baltic states.

In the latter case, not much has happened, a good thing, but we can’t rule that out. The #1 thing to understand about Putin is that his own self-preservation drives most of what he does. We don’t normally talk about him as an oligarch, because he is very good at hiding the billions he made during the Yeltsin years in particular, in the grab for post-Soviet resources. We don’t know exactly how much of Rosneft he owns or owned, for example. We don’t know how much he has squirrelled away in foreign bank accounts or property. He can’t just retire and enjoy his wealth, partly because of his personality, and partly because of the risk that the next people to take charge in Russia would come after him.

That’s why Putin won’t give up power: he enjoys it and he can use his power to direct attention everywhere but himself. Blame the gays, blame America, blame the other oligarchs, whatever it takes. Sowing and fostering divisions within and between countries is relatively easy and cost-effective compared to actual war. So I don’t think Putin will start anything with the USA or Europe.

Johnson? Behind the quirks and the occasional foot-in-mouth outbreak, he is not stupid. Unlike Trump, he actually listens to people and understands what they tell him. A Prime Minister does not have dictatorial powers and Johnson has no obviously Fascistic tendencies. I don’t like the guy or his party, but even I can see that some of the things people say are a stretch.

splinter65

Frankx wrote: »

I don't think it's safe now

What in particular about Johnson makes you frightened? What is that you think he will do that Corbyn or Starmer wouldn’t do? What exactly makes you feel “unsafe”?

hgfj

Trump may not have started WW3 (yet) but more Americans have died due to the spread of covid19 under his watch than all the American soldiers who died in WW1, Korea and Vietnam added up together. At least the ones who died in war died for a purpose (rightly or wrongly).

Gruffalux

Cabaal wrote: »

How's that whatabouttery going?

The topic is about Putin, Trump or Johnson.

Trump inactions have resulted in a whole lot of innocent people dieing on US soil who would otherwise not have died.

I am no fan of any politician. To be a politician to me signifies that at some point you lost your way, your creativity dried up or you felt the need to compensate for a small mickey.
Having said that I simply do not understand the spin that is put on Trump and Johnson, as if the cataclysm has befallen us. Neither are the worst by a long shot of recent incumbents in US or the UK.
I stayed up all night to listen to Obama be elected. I was -probably for the first time in my life - unreasonably ecstatic about something happening far away. Over the next 8 years I felt like all the scales fell from my eyes. All he was was someone who looked good in a suit and talked a smooth game. Trump is comically unattractive and talks utter scutter but he is no less safe in world peace terms than his most recent predecessors.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

You've got this backwards. The LGBT, BLM, contemporary feminists and other intersectional groups hate the Marxists, because Marxism rejects intersectionality and internal class-division.

Why don't you read some actual Marxist writing instead of the raving critiques it gets from people who think anything contemporary and left-wing is Marxist.

For sure, there are a lot of young people in the above movements who very vaguely describe themselves as socialists, but they generally have absolutely no knowledge of Marxism or its constituent forms. They tend react angrily when Marxists say that all of the proletariat essentially face the same struggle, because Marxism and intersectionality are fundamentally contradictory.

All of these movements, their whole premise is based on the fact that they are supposedly oppressed by the whites/homophobes/men/<enter opposite group here> and that they have more than them because of their privelege. It may not be the exact writings of Karl Marx, but the principle of their 'struggle' is exactly the same.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

All of these movements, their whole premise is based on the fact that they are supposedly oppressed by the whites/homophobes/men/<enter opposite group here> and that they have more than them because of their privelege. It may not be the exact writings of Karl Marx, but the principle of their 'struggle' is exactly the same.

And I can find the exact same claims being espoused back in the thirties too. Can you provide some of your sources for this conclusion?

Irishman80

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Sweden's handling of this has also been dreadful

Although not really related to the main thread, I think its way too early to make this observation.

If we get hit with a second or even a third wave of this, before a vaccine is available, Sweden's strategy might look very good.

Carfacemandog

Deleted User wrote: »

Along with many other economies. Ridiculous comment. the US owed tens of trillions to China long before Trump took office.

It's going to hit the US even worse than most due to how out of hand Trump's actions have made it, and due to the fact that the US had entered recession in February, before it even really hit. Mostmither couhtries sre also finding ways for their citizens to get by and make ends meet over this. In the US? They're mostly being left to fend for themselves, making people even more eager to reopen their economy which has been down in an horrific fashion and led to the explosion in cases they have experienced.

The funny thing is, had trump taken this virus seriously from the outset and done a good job on it, he would have been viewed favourably over it and a shoe in for reelection. Instead he's been spiralling at an incredible rate.

The US has got humiliated in their trade dealings with China under Trump by the way, hence him needing to give socialist hand outs to farmers whose livelihoods he otherwise ruined.

Frankx

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Trump is rude, but actually quite a steady reliable guy to have in charge. Obviously his main area of expertise is generating wealth and jobs

This is so worth it

splinter65

Frankx wrote: »

Britain is dangerous
.
They've got nuclear warheads and they're annoyed about loss of colonialism

I’v heard that Johnson is going to blow Brussels sky high if they don’t give him the deal he wants and next on the list is the West Indies if they beat England in the cricket. BOOM!!!

bnt

Frankx wrote: »

Britain is dangerous
.
They've got nuclear warheads and they're annoyed about loss of colonialism

And they have been that way since the 1960s, and they haven’t used them yet. If any PM was going to do that, it would have been Blair, followed by Brown.

Irishman80

Carfacemandog wrote: »

It's going to hit the US even worse than most due to how out of hand Trump's actions have made it, and due to the fact that the US had entered recession in February, before it even really hit.

This statement is false. The US had not entered recession in February. The first month on month decline in US GDP was recorded at the end of March due to the shutdowns.

SEPT 23 1989

hgfj wrote: »

Trump may not have started WW3 (yet) but more Americans have died due to the spread of covid19 under his watch than all the American soldiers who died in WW1, Korea and Vietnam added up together. At least the ones who died in war died for a purpose (rightly or wrongly).

Yes because that's exactly the same as starting a war

Now what do you think Trump is big into construction do you not think by this stage he would have levelled a few countries and sent in his cement trucks

Those trucks are always rolling to avoid certain legal complications...

Am I right?

joe40

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The Italian leaders werent criticised either, or the Spanish leaders (of which there is still areas being locked down). Even our own leaders who apparently ''played a blinder'' are answerable for the amount of deaths in nursing homes.

Trump actively supported anti lockdown protestors. No other world leader in a western democracy displayed that level of incompetence when dealing with the virus.

https://www.ft.com/content/c8f6f413-39c4-47ce-b1ff-0e02969cb612

Carfacemandog

Irishman80 wrote: »

This statement is false. The US had not entered recession in February. The first month on month decline in US GDP was recorded at the end of March due to the shutdowns.

The NBER on the matter has it as officially entering in February. The first states to impose stay at home orders were California and New York I believe, beginning on March 19th.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2020/06/08/its-official-the-us-has-been-in-a-recession-since-february/
The United States officially entered a recession in February, the National Bureau of Economic Research said Monday, marking the end of a record 128-month expansion that began in June 2009.

suicide_circus

Trump and Johnson were democratically elected leaders with bad hair who are unpopular on twitter.

Putin is a former KGB agent turned totalitarian despot.


These are two seperate categories.

joe40

joe40 wrote: »

Trump actively supported anti lockdown protestors. No other world leader in a western democracy displayed that level of incompetence when dealing with the virus.

https://www.ft.com/content/c8f6f413-39c4-47ce-b1ff-0e02969cb612

Leo didnt seem to give a sh1t when there was mass gatherings protesting in June. Obviously the virus was contained for these protests. Britain were between two stools as to what to do for weeks. Sweden didnt even do a full lockdown. So your claim that no Western leader acted with such incompetence is quite ludicrous. The EU were threatening countries that borders must remain open in order to maintain their little vanity project. Even in an extreme health crisis, this hapless bunch of useless egomaniacs were prepared to put their own 'ideals' over public health. If Trump done this, there would be uproar in the media. Again, such selectiveness.

DublinWriter

I think in 2021 we'll be poised on the brink of the most serious financial crises the world has ever seen.

Even with Trump gone by November, the damage will already have been done. Four years lost under the leadership of a man-baby barely able to speak a sentence clearly.

Boris is perhaps one of the worst leaders the UK has ever had. Morally bankrupt with a blind and self-serving political vision.

The axes of power will rest between the EU and Russia/China in the coming years. The US and the UK will become spent forces through their huge debts and balance of trade deficits.

Irishman80

Carfacemandog wrote: »

The NBER on the matter has it as officially entering in February. The first states to impose stay at home orders were California and New York I believe, beginning on March 19th.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2020/06/08/its-official-the-us-has-been-in-a-recession-since-february/
The United States officially entered a recession in February, the National Bureau of Economic Research said Monday, marking the end of a record 128-month expansion that began in June 2009.

That states the US economy peaked in February 2020 which it did - at 21.98T. That was month end.

The first decline in GDP was recorded in March 2020 - month end. This was due to shutdowns. The largest decrease was in April - month end.

People might be surprised to realise that the US economy grew 4.3% between that low and May - month end. Can't remember hearing much about that figure.

Still likely in technical recession though...

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Along with many other economies. Ridiculous comment. the US owed tens of trillions to China long before Trump took office.

I'd go further and say that every economy on the planet has been affected.

Also 30 million out of work in a population of 330 million .
In Ireland 1 million people out of a population of 5 million were out of work.

Highest percentage in Ireland.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

When the much revered Obama was in charge, Libya and Syria had succesful uprisings (aided by Hillary) and this led to the growth of Isis and their many random attacks on the West from 15-17.

Your listening to too much Marxist garbage on the mainstream channels. Turn them off and any irrational worries disasppear

Point of order, Mr. Speaker...

Marxists hate Obama.


Now, please, carry on using phrases you've seen on the internet but don't understand.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Point of order, Mr. Speaker...

Marxists hate Obama.


Now, please, carry on using phrases you've seen on the internet but don't understand.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhendrickson/2012/07/26/president-obamas-marxist-leninist-economics-fact-and-fiction/#1cb9ccd27f0f


Care to expand on your own point or are you just trying to wing it here? i think the author of this article explains well the difference between full marxism (which in its purest form wasnt even implemented by Lenin as it was completely unrealistic to begin with) and the many ways the state control certain industries.

Some countries do this more than others. What is going on with left leaning fringe groups today is described as cultural marxism as it as all the hallmarks of traditional marxism in its premise. 'You are a victim, you are oppressed, you should rise up, the people who accumulated wealth done so on the back of your struggle'. The BLM founder even publicly stated he is a 'trained marxist'

Obama was a big believer in wealth redistribution and publicly declared this on many occasions. I dont entirely disagree with wealth distribution

i find the opening post particularly strange in a sense that Trump is seen as this all out war monger and yet Libya and Syria were invaded under Obama's watch. No one blinked an eye when this was happening. If Trump done the same thing there would be absolute uproar. There was in fact, when he attacked Iran a few months ago.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Point of order, Mr. Speaker...

Marxists hate Obama.


Now, please, carry on using phrases you've seen on the internet but don't understand.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markhendrickson/2012/07/26/president-obamas-marxist-leninist-economics-fact-and-fiction/#1cb9ccd27f0f


Care to expand on your own point or are you just trying to wing it here? i think the author of this article explains well the difference between full marxism (which in its purest form wasnt even implemented by Lenin as it was completely unrealistic to begin with) and the many ways the state control certain industries.

Some countries do this more than others. What is going on with left leaning fringe groups today is described as cultural marxism as it as all the hallmarks of traditional marxism in its premise. 'You are a victim, you are oppressed, you should rise up, the people who accumulated wealth done so on the back of your struggle'. The BLM founder even publicly stated he is a 'trained marxist'

Obama was a big believer in wealth redistribution and publicly declared this on many occasions. I dont entirely disagree with wealth distribution as a principle, i think he had a fair point, but i dont agree that everyone who has accumulated good fortune has done so entirely off the backs of others. There is always risk involved in being successful

i find the opening post particularly strange in a sense that Trump is seen as this all out war monger and yet Libya and Syria were invaded under Obama's watch. No one blinked an eye when this was happening. If Trump done the same thing there would be absolute uproar. There was in fact, when he attacked Iran a few months ago.