Hong Kong to set up a new city in Ireland?

Harry Palmr

Waterford should be all over this. The state has been at best benignly neglectful and at worst actively hostile for decades.

the purple tin

If anyone could do it, it would be China.

A very canny bunch of lads, look up 'China string of pearls' and belt and road initiative.
And check out the video below to see how they are on their way to becoming the next world superpower


https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058078079

Hijpo

This is how it starts, next thing you know they will be the Hong Kong Isrealis and we will be the Irish Palestinians.

Ger Roe

This was an Enda Kenny pet project, back when he was hanging in as De Taoish,in order to make his record breaking tenure.

He spoke of having a big Chinese produce showcase complex, somewhere in the midlands where business people from all over Europe, wanting to do business with China, could hop over here and see everything and talk to whoever they had to. A one stop IDA style shop for China, without the inconvenience of actually having to go there.

It turned out to be complete pie in the sky - for a start, even if you were going to undertake such an approach, why would you locate the Chinese national showcase in the middle of a small damp rock on the western fringe of the European continent, when it would make far more sense to locate it in the midlands of continental Europe?

Unless..... there were tax breaks and associated secret deals involved... didn't he always say we were the best little country in the world to do business in? - and it's nothing to do with our young talented workforce, good work ethic and the fact that we are all great craic. The IDA would sell its own granny to generate a positive spin headline for it's annual report.

I think the Covid pandemic in particular has highlighted the fact that we need to do more for ourselves, by ourselves and reduce the reliance and obsession with direct foreign investment, based on tax breaks and other government arranged incentives, many of which remain confidential due to 'commercial sensitivity' - just so we can't work out exactly what the deals are worth to us.

As ridiculous as the idea seems, it would not surprise me if we (they) are at it again - anything to avoid having to invest in and plan for our own sustainable future.

maxwell smart

Has anyone told them about the weather?

Harry Palmr

Have you felt the weather in Hong Kong?

Is this a Chinese idea or an idea from those in Hong Kong who want to get away from Chinese rule?

Eric Cartman

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Is this a Chinese idea or an idea from those in Hong Kong who want to get away from Chinese rule?

those in HK who want to get away from china trying to flex its muscles on HK again. But of course many in this thread think its some Chinese conspiracy by the government and not just a HK businessman desperately trying to save the freedom that HK was just in a more politically stable climate.

KyussB

Lets be clear: Free movement of labour during economic downturns = higher unemployment for locals.

We already have free movement within the EU putting a strain on unemployment - which is fair enough, that's what we signed up for.

We sure as fuck do not want any additional migration than that, from regions we don't have free movement with - certainly not millions of people - when we can't even employ or affordably house all of our own local people.

The only world in which this can ever be contemplated, is if we have 1: A Job Guarantee for pursuing Full Employment all of the time, and 2: A Job Guarantee where we are building our own new cities (and sustainably expanding our existing ones), to house our own people (and migrants who we can afford to accommodate), at affordable prices - since we are, after all, in the middle of both a housing and jobs crisis...

So we would first have to get our own shit together (permanent Full Employment, affordable housing) before even contemplating such a huge amount of mass migration - and any migrants that want to come here would have to go through the normal processes (i.e. would have to have significant skills to contribute if not from the EU or other countries with favourable migration agreements), and would have to integrate into existing cities, with no special treatment.

foxy farmer

How and where do they intend on acquiring 80 sq miles of land? State owned maybe Coillte or Bord na Mona. The IDA can't CPO private land.

Richard Hillman

It has been muted for in England too. Its essentially a haven for Hong Kongers wanting to escape from the increasing Chinese influence.

I would definitely welcome more pathways for Hong Kongers to come to Ireland. It is probably the most educated workforce in the world. I was in Hong Kong a few years ago. The museums are filled with children, and not children on School trips, it was their day off and parents bring them to museums. They are crazy into education.

We were talking recently about our looming pension crisis. We are not going to plug it with goat herders from Somalia and fruit sellers from the Congo, chancing their arm for asylum. We need better immigration. People from the elite parts of the world.

As I said, I have been to Hong Kong. They are far more advanced than we are. The operation of getting 8m people into such a small place without ever feeling overcrowded is remarkable. Their transport system is probably the most elite in the world.

Harry Palmr

Eric Cartman wrote: »

those in HK who want to get away from china trying to flex its muscles on HK again. But of course many in this thread think its some Chinese conspiracy by the government and not just a HK businessman desperately trying to save the freedom that HK was just in a more politically stable climate.

It is odd how many clearly cannot tell the difference between HK and China. Which suggests either bone headed stupidity is a requirement for posting on CA or that China has already done a good enough job to subsume HK .

Interview on Newstalk Breakfast with Ivan Ko of the Victoria Harbour Group
https://www.newstalk.com/news/developer-looks-ireland-potential-home-new-city-hong-kong-people-1035574

If a new city needs building from ground up then you've got to think about the land, which suggests the midlands would actually the best place, Waterford is actually quite tight due to shape of county defined by rivers and coast, plus mountains.

quokula

KyussB wrote: »

Lets be clear: Free movement of labour during economic downturns = higher unemployment for locals.

We already have free movement within the EU putting a strain on unemployment - which is fair enough, that's what we signed up for.

We sure as fuck do not want any additional migration than that, from regions we don't have free movement with - certainly not millions of people - when we can't even employ or affordably house all of our own local people.

The only world in which this can ever be contemplated, is if we have 1: A Job Guarantee for pursuing Full Employment all of the time, and 2: A Job Guarantee where we are building our own new cities (and sustainably expanding our existing ones), to house our own people (and migrants who we can afford to accommodate), at affordable prices - since we are, after all, in the middle of both a housing and jobs crisis...

So we would first have to get our own shit together (permanent Full Employment, affordable housing) before even contemplating such a huge amount of mass migration - and any migrants that want to come here would have to go through the normal processes (i.e. would have to have significant skills to contribute if not from the EU or other countries with favourable migration agreements), and would have to integrate into existing cities, with no special treatment.

Let's be clear: Making a sweeping statement with no evidence to back it up and prefacing it with the term "lets be clear" doesn't make it true.

The idea would be an amazing opportunity for Ireland. No chance of it happening though, it's just a pie in the sky idea. The amount of work needed to buy up that much land from many private landowners, deal with planning and nature conservation regulations, develop and build it up, get all the infrastructure in place, and convince hundreds and thousands of Hong Kong residents to abandon their homes and relatives and move to the other side of the world with a different culture and different climate is way beyond any realistic plan.

Developments like this happen naturally over many decades, no one business can click their fingers and throw it all together.

Fred Cryton

KyussB wrote: »

Lets be clear: Free movement of labour during economic downturns = higher unemployment for locals.

We already have free movement within the EU putting a strain on unemployment - which is fair enough, that's what we signed up for.

We sure as fuck do not want any additional migration than that, from regions we don't have free movement with - certainly not millions of people - when we can't even employ or affordably house all of our own local people.

The only world in which this can ever be contemplated, is if we have 1: A Job Guarantee for pursuing Full Employment all of the time, and 2: A Job Guarantee where we are building our own new cities (and sustainably expanding our existing ones), to house our own people (and migrants who we can afford to accommodate), at affordable prices - since we are, after all, in the middle of both a housing and jobs crisis...

So we would first have to get our own shit together (permanent Full Employment, affordable housing) before even contemplating such a huge amount of mass migration - and any migrants that want to come here would have to go through the normal processes (i.e. would have to have significant skills to contribute if not from the EU or other countries with favourable migration agreements), and would have to integrate into existing cities, with no special treatment.

WE're talking about skilled people working in high end industries bringing their own wealth and expertise to Ireland. There would be a net gain to Ireland - thousands of jobs would be created.

the purple tin

Fred Cryton wrote: »

WE're talking about skilled people working in high end industries bringing their own wealth and expertise to Ireland. There would be a net gain to Ireland - thousands of jobs would be created.

Yes but those jobs would most likely be given to Chinese immigrants only. That is how they have done it in other countries.

KyussB

quokula wrote: »

Let's be clear: Making a sweeping statement with no evidence to back it up and prefacing it with the term "lets be clear" doesn't make it true.

The idea would be an amazing opportunity for Ireland. No chance of it happening though, it's just a pie in the sky idea. The amount of work needed to buy up that much land from many private landowners, deal with planning and nature conservation regulations, develop and build it up, get all the infrastructure in place, and convince hundreds and thousands of Hong Kong residents to abandon their homes and relatives and move to the other side of the world with a different culture and different climate is way beyond any realistic plan.

Developments like this happen naturally over many decades, no one business can click their fingers and throw it all together.

Don't know why you're prefacing that as a reply to me, as you don't really reply to anything I've said.

Eric Cartman

Fred Cryton wrote: »

WE're talking about skilled people working in high end industries bringing their own wealth and expertise to Ireland. There would be a net gain to Ireland - thousands of jobs would be created.

That same poster defends taking direct provision migrants in other threads.

I find the duopoly funny , rich asians and white people = bad , poor blacks and arabs = good....

expectationlost

Geuze wrote: »

This was mentioned on the Marginal Revolution blog:

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/07/a-hong-kong-enclave-in-ireland.html


Then the CEO replied:

https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/07/mark-lutter-on-hong-kong-in-ireland.html

ah so they were using the term international charter city so the Times was using the widely understood definition of that

I like the idea. It’s not only about the finance sector either. Manufacturing would be a huge boost to the entire country too.

KyussB

Fred Cryton wrote: »

WE're talking about skilled people working in high end industries bringing their own wealth and expertise to Ireland. There would be a net gain to Ireland - thousands of jobs would be created.

If they're so important then they can apply through the normal channels, and fill in any skill gaps we presently have - and after we look out for our own first, by restoring Full Employment.

No free movement of labour, beyond countries we've already agreed that with - it's bad for labour, magnifies unemployment.

expectationlost

the purple tin wrote: »

If anyone could do it, it would be China.

A very canny bunch of lads, look up 'China string of pearls' and belt and road initiative.
And check out the video below to see how they are on their way to becoming the next world superpower


https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058078079

you know this about getting away from China.

amadangomor

We should do it ourselves.

Build a new city in the midlands that would attract the highly skilled people who will be leaving Hong Kong and from other places.

We would have control over it. A new city from scratch could be designed to give people a good work life balance with a pedestrianised centre and top class transport infrastructure. Aim for a small city of 100,000 to start with but with room for expansion.

engleburt

As we all know the banks world wide are in a bad way, money printing 24/7, EU and Euro are in a serious problem, Politicians know serious reform is needed but they dont have the guts to do it.
The policy decisions of the last few years from EU and Ireland regarding mass immigration and now this possible ceding of land to China, and make no doubt this will be the Chinese communist party approved people for this project, lead me to now believe that the EU what Right wing governments in EU countries.
The fact is when Hitler got into power , the first thing he did was bring the banks to heel.
Can anyone explain the EU /Irish government policy other than it is increase nationalism and to drive people to support the far right?
No doubt the far right will tackle the banks as well as immigration, is that the goal of these insane policy choices being pushed on EU citizens?

Eric Cartman

amadangomor wrote: »

We should do it ourselves.

Build a new city in the midlands that would attract the highly skilled people who will be leaving Hong Kong and from other places.

We would have control over it. A new city from scratch could be designed to give people a good work life balance with a pedestrianised centre and top class transport infrastructure. Aim for a small city of 100,000 to start with but with room for expansion.

We could never pull it off ourselves , the doors of the first pub there would only be open a minute before a table of union reps and td's were deciding to undo the low taxation and how to screw everyone there over for their own gain.

YellowBucket

Could we not just offer a special visa? I don’t really see why setting up a new territory would be necessary.

Sounds to me like the lads in Ireland were imagining an onshore tax and regulatory haven, which would make us look extremely bad from an EU point of view as we are already practically a tax haven as it is.

I see no issue attracting Hong Kongers to move here but it seems a bit nuts to try to create a new city. We could easily offer incentives to encourage aspects of businesses into existing Irish cities.

Also from a sociological point of view, it seems like a recipe for a mess and all sorts of problems with a special city for people who wouldn’t ever feel they were part of Ireland.

Whole thing is an awful idea. Either invite people to be part of the broader Irish community, or don’t. Special cities are a very bad approach to anything in my view.

KyussB

Eric Cartman wrote: »

That same poster defends taking direct provision migrants in other threads.

I find the duopoly funny , rich asians and white people = bad , poor blacks and arabs = good....

I haven't posted in any direct provision threads - not in recent memory anyway - cite that.

Fred Cryton

Fred Cryton wrote: »

WE're talking about skilled people working in high end industries bringing their own wealth and expertise to Ireland. There would be a net gain to Ireland - thousands of jobs would be created.

Actually, you have no idea the "quality" of immigrants that would come in under such an initiative. It would be an autonomous zone, and wouldn't be bound by our own immigration policies, so they could allow in anyone at all.

Some posters here have an really pro-HK bias, ignoring that HK consists of far more than its business/financial center. There are heaps of people in HK who don't have much in the way of education, and would bring all manner of other problems with them. HK was a British colony, but still very much, a Chinese city. I suspect a lot here are thinking people in HK are the same as westerners brought up in the US/Europe. They're not.

I have loved my visits to HK. It's a great city, but it had it's own problems long before the PRC got involved.

joseywhales

I am dubious that this is a real proposal, it seems to be a brainstorming exercise at best, at worst a mostly invented set of proposals by people who want to create hostility toward the idea of mass immigration from hong kong.

I found this interesting:

"become a top 10 global financial center in 10 years by attracting HK financial talent."

I doubt it, Hong Kong is a financial centre because of its strategic access to Asian markets and the presence of US European and Asian investment banks, hedge funds and the exchange. I do not think it is primarily based on hong Kong talent, in fact there is a lot of international talent working in Hong Kong in the financial sector.

I am not a fan of special arrangements in terms of political agreements for a large scale hk settlement, if that is even a seriously considered proposal which I doubt.

I am however a huge fan of offering good terms for individuals who wish to immigrate from there, it is an opportunity to get high grade immigrant resources into the country. I'm certainly a fan of policies like investment visas, if you put 5 million in an Irish account and do not transfer it out of the country, you can stay and work for sure.

Eric Cartman

KyussB wrote: »

I haven't posted in any direct provision threads - not in recent memory anyway - cite that.

My apologies you are correct, and can actually see youve been consistently against open migration in recessionary times. I confused you with other posters.

2u2me

joseywhales wrote: »

I am not a fan of special arrangements in terms of political agreements for a large scale hk settlement, if that is even a seriously considered proposal which I doubt.

I am however a huge fan of offering good terms for individuals who wish to immigrate from there, it is an opportunity to get high grade immigrant resources into the country. I'm certainly a fan of policies like investment visas, if you put 5 million in an Irish account and do not transfer it out of the country, you can stay and work for sure.

Special arrangements will lead to nothing good. If they want to come they should integrate. No special laws, country, zone, etc.. etc..