Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

CelticRambler

I hear Johnson has decided to splurge the Brexit dividend (or some other pot of magic money) on making the Royal Navy a "world class" fighting force in pursuit of Britain's foreign policy objectives.

Huh?

Nothing like taking one's eye off the ball at a critical moment ... but hey-ho, I suppose he's lost interest in those tedious, drawn-out domestic challenges like Brexit and Covid-19. :rolleyes:

lawred2

More nonsense to appeal to the basic empire yearning followers..

He knows that this stuff sells...

But he has next to no intention of following up on something like this. It's like the bridge to NI.

beggars_bush

lawred2 wrote: »

More nonsense to appeal to the basic empire yearning followers..

He knows that this stuff sells...

But he has next to no intention of following up on something like this. It's like the bridge to NI.

Did they finish that yet?

Thargor

CelticRambler wrote: »

I hear Johnson has decided to splurge the Brexit dividend (or some other pot of magic money) on making the Royal Navy a "world class" fighting force in pursuit of Britain's foreign policy objectives.

Huh?

Nothing like taking one's eye off the ball at a critical moment ... but hey-ho, I suppose he's lost interest in those tedious, drawn-out domestic challenges like Brexit and Covid-19. :rolleyes:

lawred2 wrote: »

More nonsense to appeal to the basic empire yearning followers..

He knows that this stuff sells...

But he has next to no intention of following up on something like this. It's like the bridge to NI.

The amount includes the deficit the MoD already runs every year, so it's basically just current spending rebranded for the morons, also its smaller than existing cutbacks already announced ages ago so just more bullsh1t and lies, its all they do.

Look at the recent green new deal that they'll probably just forget about when convenient aswell:
https://twitter.com/Ed_Miliband/status/1329134222242672641

joeysoap

beggars_bush wrote: »

Did they finish that yet?

Never started. All talk. Never mentioned in NI itself.

Capt'n Midnight

Thargor wrote: »

The amount includes the deficit the MoD already runs every year, so it's basically just current spending rebranded for the morons, also its smaller than existing cutbacks already announced ages ago so just more bullsh1t and lies, its all they do.

Look at the recent green new deal that they'll probably just forget about when convenient aswell:
twitter.com/Ed_Miliband/status/1329134222242672641

The Govt is already handing out money from the £3Bn Green Homes Grant.
Or rather after two months they've issued 267 vouchers. Out of tens of thousands of applications.

This could have been a practice run for Brexit. Tens of thousand of forms should be no problem.

Winters

I feel like the UK is me in IKEA trying to haggle. At some stage IKEA will just ask me to leave the premises.

tanko

Winters wrote: »

I feel like the UK is me in IKEA trying to haggle. At some stage IKEA will just ask me to leave the premises.

The UK wants to be thrown out so they can scurry back to London with their tails between their legs shouting that it was the big bad EU that dunnit.
I'd say the "negotiations" consist of Barnier and Co sitting down one one side of a table with the BRINO agreement they drew up a year or two ago in front of them waiting for the Brits on the other side of the table to sign it.

Leroy42

There is definitely a deal ready to be done. LauraK has moved to talk repeatedly about the PR spin that both sides will need to do. Based on previous experience, that means LK has been given the nod to start the process of getting the line out there.

The EU will lose access to some fishing, that was always a given. The Uk had the law, and location, on their side. What the EU will have been looking for is to minimise that impact. And they had plenty of cards to play to force the UK to give them something.

The key will be what card were they prepared to offer in return?

J Mysterio

It's really not even worth listening to Kuenssberg.

Zubeneschamali

tanko wrote: »

I'd say the "negotiations" consist of Barnier and Co sitting down one one side of a table with the BRINO agreement they drew up a year or two ago in front of them waiting for the Brits on the other side of the table to sign it.

BRINO is not on the table. It is the thinnest goods-only FTA or nothing.

What might be possible even now is some sort of Implementation Period to phase in the FTA rules and prevent immediate chaos and empty shelves in the UK in January.

Leroy42

J Mysterio wrote: »

It's really not even worth listening to Kuenssberg.

Oh, I agree, at least for actual real discussion and facts, but she has a history of being the mouthpiece for government kite flying.

She when she starts to talk and tweet about landing zones and PR spin on any deal, to which she adds that the EU are struggling as well, to me at least that is a clear sign of where HMG are.

There was a clip on Brexitcast, where she went on a speech about PR spin, and who goes first etc, and Katya had to tell her that the EU isn't a single person so her idea doesn't make sense.

To me, when I heard that she seemed like she was pushing a particular line very hard. That a deal would be done and get ready for the spin from the EU.

I told ya

tanko wrote: »

The UK wants to be thrown out so they can scurry back to London with their tails between their legs shouting that it was the big bad EU that dunnit.
I'd say the "negotiations" consist of Barnier and Co sitting down one one side of a table with the BRINO agreement they drew up a year or two ago in front of them waiting for the Brits on the other side of the table to sign it.

Reminds me of the scene in the film The Wild Geese where they are signing the mercenary contract. Richard Burton (Barnier) tells Barry Foster (Frost) to 'sign here and here, here's your copy, now go outside and shout'.

An Ciarraioch

Appatently, a deal is "95% done" - unfortunately, that outstanding 5% being the old reliables of fishing, LPF and governance (which reminds one of downloading software in the dial-up era):

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1120/1179401-brexit/

Enzokk

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Appatently, a deal is "95% done" - unfortunately, that outstanding 5% being the old reliables of fishing, LPF and governance (which reminds one of downloading software in the dial-up era):

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1120/1179401-brexit/

It will come down to Johnson moving again. We have seen this movie before and he moved last time and I think most people expect him to move again this time. Seeing as he has other issues going on right now, with him not firing Patel when it has been found she bullied civil servants, who knows if he has the capacity to think about the deal while deals with this crises.

Seth Brundle

Could the Patel mess have a big impact on how Brexit proceeds?
Sir Alex Allan, the independent adviser on standards, has resigned after the Johnson overruled his conclusions about Patel's behaviour. I wonder, will the knives come out for Boris now?

I told ya

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Could the Patel mess have a big impact on how Brexit proceeds?
Sir Alex Allan, the independent adviser on standards, has resigned after the Johnson overruled his conclusions about Patel's behaviour. I wonder, will the knives come out for Boris now?

It might well be at the stage where the hands are on the knives but he's left in place to take the fall out from poor deal/no deal.

Strazdas

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Could the Patel mess have a big impact on how Brexit proceeds?
Sir Alex Allan, the independent adviser on standards, has resigned after the Johnson overruled his conclusions about Patel's behaviour. I wonder, will the knives come out for Boris now?

Apparently even some Conservative MPs are disgusted by the affair. They know full well that what Patel did was a sackable offence and that she should have been fired on the spot.

Nody

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Could the Patel mess have a big impact on how Brexit proceeds?
Sir Alex Allan, the independent adviser on standards, has resigned after the Johnson overruled his conclusions about Patel's behaviour. I wonder, will the knives come out for Boris now?

He fired Cummings; that will placate them for now and nothing will happen until end of January. Let Brexit happen, chaos settle in and Boris can be retired to blame for it all while a new knight in shining white armor can step forward as savior. Of course the saviors who are going to step up are not going to be able to fix the chaos but they will all be blinded by their egos that they can do it and want to get the "PM" box ticked before moving on.

Strazdas

Nody wrote: »

He fired Cummings; that will placate them for now and nothing will happen until end of January. Let Brexit happen, chaos settle in and Boris can be retired to blame for it all while a new knight in shining white armor can step forward as savior. Of course the saviors who are going to step up are not going to be able to fix the chaos but they will all be blinded by their egos that they can do it and want to get the "PM" box ticked before moving on.

That is questioned though. Some people even wonder if that was a ready up between Johnson and Cummings.

Nody

Strazdas wrote: »

That is questioned though. Some people even wonder if that was a ready up between Johnson and Cummings.

Makes no real difference; Tory party hated Cummings and think it was Cummings who made Boris act so poorly as PM (it was not but always good to have someone to blame). Now that Cummings is gone they believe they will get Super Boris back and it's land of unicorns and honey. Now take in Brexit, Covid restrictions over Christmas and New Year and the fall out come Jan 1st. I'd say he's gone and that fits him as well. He'll get to say "I did Brexit, I was the PM" and he's back to writing fantasy articles in the Telgraph etc. and make more money so he can afford more staff again.

An Ciarraioch

Richard North increasingly cognisant of the impact Brexit could have on the Union:

https://www.turbulenttimes.co.uk/news/brexit/brexit-losing-the-union/

rugbyman

That piece from Richard North is good, I read another piece on that site.

Will read more.

Thanks An Ciarraioch

ExMachina1000

The UK and Canada have agreed that trade can continue under the same terms as the current EU deal post Brexit.

Saves on mountains of paperwork I suppose. Continue on as per usual

Shai

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The UK and Canada have agreed that trade can continue under the same terms as the current EU deal post Brexit.

Saves on mountains of paperwork I suppose. Continue on as per usual

Sigh. It's a transitional deal that is being put in place while a new deal is still being worked on.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7476667/canada-britain-trade-deal/ wrote:

Dan Darling, president of the Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance, described the “transitional agreement as a welcome stop gap measure but said it is not enough.”

He called on the government to fix the market-access issues that Canadian producers have faced under the existing agreement with the EU.

“For other agri-food exporters, a transitional arrangement simply reinforces a situation that remains unacceptable under CETA due to the persistence of trade obstacles that continue to hinder Canadian exports,” he said.

Sam Russell

Shai wrote: »

Sigh. It's a transitional deal that is being put in place while a new deal is still being worked on.

Every little thing is seen as a victory.

First it was the Faroes with their fish deal that allowed the Faroes to fish in UK waters and land them in the UK. Nothing in return but it was a victory.

Then it was Japan - giving them a comprehensive trade agreement the same as they already had, but with the advantage they could export blue cheese tariff free (the Japanese do not eat blue cheese). Another victory but not cheaper Soya because it is made in NL.

Now it is Canada looking to allow the current EU deal to continue for now. Another victory.

All they need is a few Unicorns on the sunny uplands.

Nody

Sam Russell wrote: »

Then it was Japan - giving them a comprehensive trade agreement the same as they already had, but with the advantage they could export blue cheese tariff free (the Japanese do not eat blue cheese). Another victory but not cheaper Soya because it is made in NL.

Sorry but it's worse than that; they export the blue cheese at a higher rate than normal and if at the end of the year if EU have not used up the EU cheese quota UK get the crumbs and get to use the left over part of the quota EU did not use that year. Hence the whole export is still based on EU except they got zero control over if they get the lower tariffs or not.

CelticRambler

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The UK and Canada have agreed that trade can continue under the same terms as the current EU deal post Brexit.

So Britain willingly accepts a deal that was drafted by "Brussels" and Canada, because nothing says "take back control" like copy-and-pasting someone else's work. :P

'Tis always a bit risky, though, to break out the champagne in respect of any kind of deal when the architects pointedly refuse to give any details of what it is that's been agreed ... and kind of hard for exporters to take advantage of terms and conditions that are being kept secret from them.

Nody

CelticRambler wrote: »

So Britain willingly accepts a deal that was drafted by "Brussels" and Canada, because nothing says "take back control" like copy-and-pasting someone else's work. :P

'Tis always a bit risky, though, to break out the champagne in respect of any kind of deal when the architects pointedly refuse to give any details of what it is that's been agreed ... and kind of hard for exporters to take advantage of terms and conditions that are being kept secret from them.

It's worse than that; it's a temporary carry over deal as Canada is pushing for better access than what EU would grant them to the EU market. Canada is likely to look at what the other countries will get beyond EU and demand that in the final deal while cancelling the temporary deal.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: I've moved a few posts to the general British politics thread.