Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

joeysoap

Portugal have some French supermarkets. And hardware outlets.

Intermarche.
Leroy Merlin.
They also have Iceland supermarkets from Uk. And I seem to recall an M+S in Malaga.

I think M+S will be hard hit by Brexit, nearly all their products are marketed ‘ British Beef, British Chicken, British Pork’ etc

As an aside to that nearly, if not all sandwiches sold by Ryanair and Aer LIngus are made outside Belfast, Pure use Warrenpoint, M+s use uk( natch). Belfast airport on the other hand use Kerry.

CelticRambler

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

<cough> eSwatini </cough>

It's part of the world's oldest customs union.

Should have been more alert to that, seeing as rUK features so frequently in discussions these days!

An isn't it curious how so many British territories were signed up to that customs union? One could almost believe that, back in the day, the Brits thought that reducing the barriers to international trade was a Good Thing.

MBSnr

M&S say they will supply the whole island of Ireland from a single export center in Motherwell, Scotland.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JP_Biz/status/1331877697660841986

ancapailldorcha

I think I just want this over now to be honest. I've heard rumours of the European Parliament meeting after Christmas to pass the deal but this assumes one will be done. At best, I think it'll be something to keep food and medicines flowing and not much more, if even that.

The idea of Europeans taking British jobs has taken on something of a bizarre and ironic twist though:

https://twitter.com/ingridoliver100/status/1331701855274102787

More here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8988283/EU-British-boys-BANNED-playing-young-Prince-William.html

Shelga

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I think I just want this over now to be honest. I've heard rumours of the European Parliament meeting after Christmas to pass the deal but this assumes one will be done. At best, I think it'll be something to keep food and medicines flowing and not much more, if even that.

The idea of Europeans taking British jobs has taken on something of a bizarre and ironic twist though:

https://twitter.com/ingridoliver100/status/1331701855274102787

More here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8988283/EU-British-boys-BANNED-playing-young-Prince-William.html

Urgh, the comments under that article are pure poison. Readers of the Daily Mail must be so deeply unhappy.

I think what Brexiters really want is for there to be no EU at all. For, while it exists, and you are a medium/large country with a decent economy within Europe, it's blindingly obvious you may as well be a part of it.

dogbert27

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I think I just want this over now to be honest. I've heard rumours of the European Parliament meeting after Christmas to pass the deal but this assumes one will be done. At best, I think it'll be something to keep food and medicines flowing and not much more, if even that.

The idea of Europeans taking British jobs has taken on something of a bizarre and ironic twist though:

https://twitter.com/ingridoliver100/status/1331701855274102787

More here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8988283/EU-British-boys-BANNED-playing-young-Prince-William.html

I'm not following this logic. A British casting director is stating the requirements without any explanation other than Brexit and people are reacting to say that this is coming from the EU?!

Have all passports in the UK been replaced with new blue UK passports or are older red EU UK passports still valid?

I can't wait for this to finally be over. It's 4 and half years since that stupid referendum and people who voted for it still can't say what Brexit bloody means.

deathbomber

M&S are gone here anyway if any kind of tax is applied, there food in particular is getting borderline too expensive as it is, which is a shame as it is quite nice:pac:

lawred2

Shelga wrote: »

Urgh, the comments under that article are pure poison. Readers of the Daily Mail must be so deeply unhappy.

I think what Brexiters really want is for there to be no EU at all. For, while it exists, and you are a medium/large country with a decent economy within Europe, it's blindingly obvious you may as well be a part of it.

this is basically the nub of it..

these people are unhappy and are using Brexit to direct and vent their anger..

it could just as easily have been voting for some sort of far right 'strong man' who also didn't like outsiders.. sure how else did Farage get so much traction..

These are consequences of the widening gaps between haves and have nots and no amount of rational analysis or numbers or educated convincing are going to make these people any happier..

The aim is to ultimately make others just as unhappy - not to make themselves any happier.. So informing them that Brexit impacts supply chains for companies owned by millionaires is great news... Not bad news

lawred2

deathbomber wrote: »

M&S are gone here anyway if any kind of tax is applied, there food in particular is getting borderline too expensive as it is, which is a shame as it is quite nice:pac:

wildly off topic but I find M&S massively over rated

The Raging Bile Duct

dogbert27 wrote: »

I'm not following this logic. A British casting director is stating the requirements without any explanation other than Brexit and people are reacting to say that this is coming from the EU?!

Have all passports in the UK been replaced with new blue UK passports or are older red EU UK passports still valid?

I can't wait for this to finally be over. It's 4 and half years since that stupid referendum and people who voted for it still can't say what Brexit bloody means.

Considering that if there's a no deal crashout, UK citizens would lose their automatic right to work in the EU, I'd imagine that a film production taking place in Germany can't take the risk of having to shut down because one their actors is not there legally so they're trying to sidestep the issue.

Why would older red passports still be valid come January, that makes no sense.

lawred2

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

Considering that if there's a no deal crashout, UK citizens would lose their automatic right to work in the EU, I'd imagine that a film production taking place in Germany can't take the risk of having to shut down because one their actors is not there legally so they're trying to sidestep the issue.

Why would older red passports still be valid come January, that makes no sense.

why would they be invalid?

if they haven't expired they are still valid.

timetogo1

Shelga wrote: »

Urgh, the comments under that article are pure poison. Readers of the Daily Mail must be so deeply unhappy.

And they're in a bubble. For some reason last year I replied to an article that was talking rubbish (can't remember which as there are so many). I registered, posted a comment with links to the proof. The comment lasted about half an hour and was deleted. They're all just posting and reading comments that back up their views. Sound healthy alright.

timetogo1

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

Why would older red passports still be valid come January, that makes no sense.

They're still British passports, just not EU ones.
Does anybody know if the British citizens start going to the non EU queue on Jan 1st or are they going to be lax about it.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/travel/britons-face-two-hour-waits-at-passport-control-after-brexit-transition-period/ar-BB1bcMD2

Sam Russell

lawred2 wrote: »

why would they be invalid?

if they haven't expired they are still valid.

The passport is valid - just the work permit requirement is not valid.

An EU passport holder would not require a work permit, but a UK passport holder would. It is a lot simpler to say 'An EU passport holder' rather than 'A person who does not require a work permit to work in the EU'.

Simples.

The Raging Bile Duct

lawred2 wrote: »

why would they be invalid?

if they haven't expired they are still valid.

They'd only be valid for travelling as a UK citizen and not as an EU citizen, would they not? Maybe there's a loophole I'm missing but it doesn't make sense to me that they'd still enjoy all the benefits of being an EU citizen in relation to travel until their red passports go out of date.

Edit: Sam Russell above explained it better than me.

Nody

timetogo1 wrote: »

They're still British passports, just not EU ones.
Does anybody know if the British citizens start going to the non EU queue on Jan 1st or are they going to be lax about it.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/travel/britons-face-two-hour-waits-at-passport-control-after-brexit-transition-period/ar-BB1bcMD2

Non EU queue come January 1st; not even the latest British passports with the e-reader will work due to the origin country of the passports; the individual person checking the passports obviously has discretion as they see fit but on paper it's wrong queue go back.

ambro25

timetogo1 wrote: »

They're still British passports, just not EU ones.
Does anybody know if the British citizens start going to the non EU queue on Jan 1st or are they going to be lax about it.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/travel/britons-face-two-hour-waits-at-passport-control-after-brexit-transition-period/ar-BB1bcMD2

Non-EU queue, except for EU27-resident British with a national right-to-remain biometric card/ID, is the last I heard.

So at the next de-planing opportunity, Mrs ambro becomes a "queue-jumper" (:D) and ambro25's mother-in-law stays in the long queue with her fellow Brexit-voting OAPs (:D:D).

ancapailldorcha

Shelga wrote: »

Urgh, the comments under that article are pure poison. Readers of the Daily Mail must be so deeply unhappy.

I think what Brexiters really want is for there to be no EU at all. For, while it exists, and you are a medium/large country with a decent economy within Europe, it's blindingly obvious you may as well be a part of it.

I just wanted to add a link so I had more than a single tweet from a known Remain voter and former Remainiacs panelist. I have no interest in Daily Mail comments.

Yeah, like the child who has to learn that the world does not revolve around them so too must some Brexit voters realise that the EU is not going anywhere and the days of the United Kingdom being a global titan are long and truly done.

Nody

ambro25 wrote: »

Non-EU queue, except for EU27-resident British with a national right-to-remain biometric card/ID, is the last I heard.

So at the next de-planing opportunity, Mrs ambro becomes a "queue-jumper" (:D) and ambro25's mother-in-law stays in the long queue with her fellow Brexit-voting OAPs (:D:D).

Don't forget to remind her that she needs to apply for the right to enter an EU country and pay the processing fee before booking the flight; that alone should be a fun time for you

johnnyskeleton

Shelga wrote: »

I think what Brexiters really want is for there to be no EU at all.

This is exactly it. Brexit was predicated on the idea that it would break apart the EU. The narrative is that Cameron went to the EU trying to get reform of the EU (he really wanted British exceptionalism, but facts are not relevant to the narrative), and when they said no the British people voted to leave. All the rhetoric is about a corrupt, unelected dictatorship in the EU etc.

Even now, after they have left, Brexiteer internet commentators, British media and some prominent Brexit minded politicians spend far more time looking at the EU and complaining about how e.g. the EU is spending money, and ignoring the waste of money that is taking place domestically in the UK.

But most importantly of all, while the Breixteers hate the EU, what they want more than anything is an almost identical union of European states, only one which is led by and dominated by themselves. They talk of Global Britain, their friends and partners in the EU and how they need us more than we need them. They refuse to even accept minimum regulatory alignment but get outraged at the suggestion that they would ever dip their standards lower than EU countries. It's all designed around the central conceit that everything done by the EU is inherently bad, even if the exact same things (environmental protection, human rights, democracy, free trade amongst peer nations, beneficial terms to developing nations, etc) are inherently good.

Some Brexiteers even claim to have invented democracy while calling the EU anti-democratic.

As I've said before, if what the Brexiteers said was really true, then the UK would have to leave the UN as well to be consistent. However, they have a permanent security council seat and so benefit from an elevated status that is entirely unwarranted in the modern world in that venue, so are free to e.g. ignore the vote on the Chagos Islands

For, while it exists, and you are a medium/large country with a decent economy within Europe, it's blindingly obvious you may as well be a part of it.

For all that said, there is a strong argument that now is a good time for the EU to maybe reassess how it operates. I don't believe that countries should feel that they have to join the EU. Given a choice, I'd much rather that countries join the EEA instead as we are currently seeing that the EU is so committed to the idea of consensus decision making, that it is unable to deal with States and bad actors who operate within the EU but seek to destabilise it.

I think the EU might have to take a step backwards from ever closer union for a few years, and make sure that the union that currently exists is as robust as can be.

All of this has largely been ignored due to the waves caused by Brexit, which is a shame. Arguably if they had stayed in the EU the last four years would have been spent looking at the future of the EU rather than as a sort of crisis management. We are all worse off due to Brexit, both in the EU and in the UK. That is the worst part of all this!

Oafley Jones

lawred2 wrote: »

wildly off topic but I find M&S massively over rated

Their streaky rashers (packs of 22) are by far the best out there if you're looking for some American style bacon.... and their fruit is generally excellent. I'll miss those. Otherwise I find their products loaded with sugar and not so great.

I was under the impression that the Irish stores were one of the few bright spots for underperforming M&S; where the Drapery section actually does some business! I suppose the tiny number of stores probably wouldn't justify the trouble of keeping them going. That statement regarding Scotland; does that really include the south?

I've said this before (at least six months ago), but anytime I'm in there, at least half the refrigerators are shut off. I used to think they were stress testing the business, but to do it consistently for the year makes no sense.

looksee

Love that Daily Mail comment about cultural appropriation. So who was doing the appropriating when the royal family changed their name to a nice sound English one?

CelticRambler

MBSnr wrote: »

M&S say they will supply the whole island of Ireland from a single export center in Motherwell, Scotland.

Hmm. That's what they say, but how much of their product range will actually be allowed into the island without additional, impractical certification? From speaking to (a limited number of) British contacts over the last couple of months, I get the impression that they really don't have a full understanding of just how much of their trade with the EU is entirely dependent on being part of the club.

Then again, as pointed out above, the customers of M&S are probably not going to be discouraged by the additional costs involved. By way of a parallel example, a local Brit-in-France YouTuber that I follow was raving this week about a delivery from the BritishCornerShop. Out of curiosity, I checked to see what their position is regarding Brexit and they dismiss all concerns with "we already export all over the world ..." Yes, but many of those exports are on the back of EU FTAs, aren't they?

Then, out of further curiosity, I checked their price for a box of Weetabix. £4.89 (5€50) for 24. I get 36 for 3€30 in my local French supermarket. Similarly, it used to be possible to buy McVities digestives in a round plastic packet with English labelling in the "English" aisle for four times the price of the McVities digestives in a square cardboard box with French writing in the regular biscuit aisle in the same store. :rolleyes: There is an ex-pat community that appears to put the symbolism of being 100% pure Brit above all common sense. Whether there are enough "West Brits" in Dublin and DUP hardliners in NI to support the M&S business model, but if there is no price those people are not willing to pay, M&S might as well profit from it! :P

Lumen

ambro25 wrote: »

Non-EU queue, except for EU27-resident British with a national right-to-remain biometric card/ID, is the last I heard.

What's the situation for British citizens resident in Ireland, travelling within the EU?

Does Ireland have such a "national right-to-remain biometric card/ID" that can be applied for by resident British citizens?

Shelga

I like M&S but it's already a complete rip-off when compared with the food prices for the exact same products in its UK stores. If prices go any higher, I will either only get a few very select things there, or just not bother. The novelty will wear off. I suspect lots more will stop shopping there too.

Time will tell.

I told ya

Nody wrote: »

Don't forget to remind her that she needs to apply for the right to enter an EU country and pay the processing fee before booking the flight; that alone should be a fun time for you

The wife is a UK citizen/UK passport. Will it be the case that a holiday to Spain will require a visa or some such document and pay for it? Or can you direct me towards some info on this?

Leroy42

I told ya wrote: »

The wife is a UK citizen/UK passport. Will it be the case that a holiday to Spain will require a visa or some such document and pay for it? Or can you direct me towards some info on this?

My understanding is that they can travel freely across the British Isles due to the common travel area, but technically they cannot do so within the rest of the EU.

So yes, if your wife only has a UK passport, then visa/paperwork and joining the NON-EU queue will be required.

I would say that there might be some understanding in the initial stage, but why should a UK citizen entering France (for example) be given favourable treatment over an Argentian (or whatever)? They were before because of the FoM agreement, but the UK no longer wants to be part of that.

cml387

People seem to be getting a mite confused.

Travel for holidays will require a valid passport for UK citizens as it does for us.
There should be no other restrictions other than those that Spain has for security purposes.

UK citizens in Ireland have the right to reside here and work, and vice versa for Irish citizens.

There seems to be a tendency to imagine (or wish for) all kinds of scary outcomes for the UK after January.

Lumen

Lumen wrote: »

What's the situation for British citizens resident in Ireland, travelling within the EU?

Does Ireland have such a "national right-to-remain biometric card/ID" that can be applied for by resident British citizens?

British peoples rights here don't create any further rights in the rest of the EU (schengen area) afaik.
They are British and will have to satisfy the relevant requirements for travel, regardless of where they are living.

Perhaps they could look at becoming Irish if that is possible.

Roanmore

cml387 wrote: »

People seem to be getting a mite confused.

Travel for holidays will require a valid passport for UK citizens as it does for us.
There should be no other restrictions other than those that Spain has for security purposes.

UK citizens in Ireland have the right to reside here and work, and vice versa for Irish citizens.

There seems to be a tendency to imagine (or wish for) all kinds of scary outcomes for the UK after January.

Don't know where you are getting your scary outcomes from but most people who answered here said a Visa will be required and they will have to join the non EU queue which is true