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Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)
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johnnyskeleton wrote: »This is exactly it. Brexit was predicated on the idea that it would break apart the EU. The narrative is that Cameron went to the EU trying to get reform of the EU (he really wanted British exceptionalism, but facts are not relevant to the narrative), and when they said no the British people voted to leave. All the rhetoric is about a corrupt, unelected dictatorship in the EU etc.
Even now, after they have left, Brexiteer internet commentators, British media and some prominent Brexit minded politicians spend far more time looking at the EU and complaining about how e.g. the EU is spending money, and ignoring the waste of money that is taking place domestically in the UK.
But most importantly of all, while the Breixteers hate the EU, what they want more than anything is an almost identical union of European states, only one which is led by and dominated by themselves. They talk of Global Britain, their friends and partners in the EU and how they need us more than we need them. They refuse to even accept minimum regulatory alignment but get outraged at the suggestion that they would ever dip their standards lower than EU countries. It's all designed around the central conceit that everything done by the EU is inherently bad, even if the exact same things (environmental protection, human rights, democracy, free trade amongst peer nations, beneficial terms to developing nations, etc) are inherently good.
Some Brexiteers even claim to have invented democracy while calling the EU anti-democratic.
As I've said before, if what the Brexiteers said was really true, then the UK would have to leave the UN as well to be consistent. However, they have a permanent security council seat and so benefit from an elevated status that is entirely unwarranted in the modern world in that venue, so are free to e.g. ignore the vote on the Chagos Islands
I think this old cartoon sums it up quite nicely:
The EU has simply set itself to the tasks required to negotiate a Brexit deal to ensure flowing trade, peace in NI, the settlement of financial obligations and guaranteeing citizens' rights. Brexit is the single greatest piece of anti-Eurosceptic propaganda ever created.
It's no coincidence that we saw a ramping up of anti-EU rhetoric at the same time as international tax evasion became something the Commission was starting to pay serious attention to.
The irony about leadership is that nobody has seriously wanted to lead the EU. When they can be bothered the British can have their own way on a lot of things. It was Thatcher who pushed through the advancement of the single market during the Delors Commission for instance. The problem is that the German Chancellor tends to be the one holding the bag as we saw with the German cars trope.johnnyskeleton wrote: »For all that said, there is a strong argument that now is a good time for the EU to maybe reassess how it operates. I don't believe that countries should feel that they have to join the EU. Given a choice, I'd much rather that countries join the EEA instead as we are currently seeing that the EU is so committed to the idea of consensus decision making, that it is unable to deal with States and bad actors who operate within the EU but seek to destabilise it.
I think the EU might have to take a step backwards from ever closer union for a few years, and make sure that the union that currently exists is as robust as can be.
All of this has largely been ignored due to the waves caused by Brexit, which is a shame. Arguably if they had stayed in the EU the last four years would have been spent looking at the future of the EU rather than as a sort of crisis management. We are all worse off due to Brexit, both in the EU and in the UK. That is the worst part of all this!
I think that this has been happening. We're seeing talk of a Green New Deal, a rescue package to help with covid and so on. It's an unwieldy union of 27 countries so speed isn't a reasonable thing to expect but there are encouraging signs.
In the absence of British leadership, the French have stepped up. It was Macron who vetoed the recent accession talks and Macron who held out to make sure Johnson only got a 3-month extension.
Ever closer union is basically a meme at this stage. It's been there for decades. The British were quietly told in the seventies that nobody had any real appetite for it. Expansion is dead as well. For the next decade, I'd say the EU is simply going to enter a state of semi-quiescence while pushing through a few larger agendas and the budget.The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 19:34
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