Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

cml387

VinLieger wrote: »

It probably is but its still completely wrong as they were piggy backing off the EU framework regarding the vaccine data to get to the point that they could approve it.

It's wrong in every conceivable way, but deperate times need desparate measures. In it's own way this lie about British exceptionalism in licensing the vaccine is as venal and irresponsible as Trumps claim about voter fraud and seem to come from the same playbook.

Strazdas

VinLieger wrote: »

It probably is but its still completely wrong as they were piggy backing off the EU framework regarding the vaccine data to get to the point that they could approve it.


https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1334091648951857152

They seem to regard their own population with utter contempt. Would you regularly tell brazened lies to a public you respected and believed to be intelligent?

I told ya

Is it my imagination or have a lot of the ardent Brexiters gone to ground over the last few months? The OH is English and has Radio4 on all the time. No sign of JRM, Davis, Fox, Francois, Farage and others. Absolutely, no sign of the DUP. Also, Brexit backers like Tim Martin, James Dyson, Jim Ratcliff, Anthony Bamford amongst others. Programs like Today, PM, Any Questions. Don't seem to have them on any more.

I don't have much of an opinion of Michael Gove but at least he's still out there battling for brexit.

cml387

One of those you've named has gone to ground for a reason, I believe, unrelated to Brexit.

CrabRevolution

cml387 wrote: »

I see that Gavin Williamson (British Education Secretary) puts the UK approval of the vaccine down to the fact that the UK is a much better country

Is it possible that this early approval and the concerted efforts to make it seem like a British success is to provide cover for concessions to the EU?

I think it's partially to try and distract from the Oxford/AstraZenica furore. The Oxford/AZ vaccine was politically loaded though by no fault of the researchers themselves. It was shaping up to be like a lottery win for Brexiters; the month the UK left the EU they could roll out a British vaccine for a worldwide pandemic which was more effective, cheaper and easier to store than inferior foreign vaccines. A British vaccine developed in Britain by a British institution; they saw it as being an emblem of Britain and would claim it as a benefit of brexit even though the UK is still for all practical intents and purposes still in the EU.

Comment sections under news articles about Pfizer's and Moderna's vaccines have been full of comments about it being leftist remoaner EU propaganda trying to downplay the Oxford/AZ vaccine and hence Britain. They seemed to take genuine offence at the idea that people were talking about vaccines that weren't developed in the UK.

The controversy over the Oxford/AZ data and the inevitable delay to any prospect of regulatory approval has taken the wind out of those sails. So the next best thing to try and grab some glory was to quickly approve the foreign vaccines and claim it's due to just being a better country.

Strazdas

I told ya wrote: »

Is it my imagination or have a lot of the ardent Brexiters gone to ground over the last few months? The OH is English and has Radio4 on all the time. No sign of JRM, Davis, Fox, Francois, Farage and others. Absolutely, no sign of the DUP. Also, Brexit backers like Tim Martin, James Dyson, Jim Ratcliff, Anthony Bamford amongst others. Programs like Today, PM, Any Questions. Don't seem to have them on any more.

I don't have much of an opinion of Michael Gove but at least he's still out there battling for brexit.

They must surely be aware of the disaster that's going to unfold on January 1st. Common sense would suggest to try and keep their distance for fear of being blamed.

Frank Bullitt

steddyeddy wrote: »

So according to Gavin Williamson, the British education secretary the UK has approved the vaccine first because it is a much better country than France, Belgium ect. This sort of English exceptionalism thinking fuelled Brexit.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gavin-williamson-brexit-us-france-belgium-covid-vaccine-b1765562.html

Jesus, this kind of spin is as impressive as it is stupid.

They will try and take anything good and say it is due to Brexit, and anything bad is due to the EU.

breezy1985

I told ya wrote: »

Is it my imagination or have a lot of the ardent Brexiters gone to ground over the last few months? The OH is English and has Radio4 on all the time. No sign of JRM, Davis, Fox, Francois, Farage and others. Absolutely, no sign of the DUP. Also, Brexit backers like Tim Martin, James Dyson, Jim Ratcliff, Anthony Bamford amongst others. Programs like Today, PM, Any Questions. Don't seem to have them on any more.

I don't have much of an opinion of Michael Gove but at least he's still out there battling for brexit.

The disappearance of Mogg is a particularly noticable one despite him being a hardcore no-dealer

ancapailldorcha

breezy1985 wrote: »

The disappearance of Mogg is a particularly noticable one despite him being a hardcore no-dealer

He hasn't disappeared, he is leader of the house.

I'd say that it's far more like that covid has just taken over place of precedence in the news and there's no real need for public appearances given that Britain has left and we're less than a month away from the end of the transition period.

Whether or not there's a deal depends on what happens internally in the Conservative party in the weeks ahead. There's no real reason for them to air that sort of thing in public.

breezy1985

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

He hasn't disappeared, he is leader of the house.

I'd say that it's far more like that covid has just taken over place of precedence in the news and there's no real need for public appearances given that Britain has left and we're less than a month away from the end of the transition period.

Whether or not there's a deal depends on what happens internally in the Conservative party in the weeks ahead. There's no real reason for them to air that sort of thing in public.

Well ya sorry I meant waffling on to the media not disappeared from the commons

timetogo1

breezy1985 wrote: »

Well ya sorry I meant waffling on to the media not disappeared from the commons

He's still tweeting away anyway.
This was one of his gems yesterday
"We could only approve this vaccine so quickly because we have left the EU. Last month we changed the regulations so a vaccine did not need EU approval which is slower."

Enzokk

breezy1985 wrote: »

Well ya sorry I meant waffling on to the media not disappeared from the commons

I think as ancapailldorcha is saying that since he became leader of the house his focus has actually shifted and he isn't in the limelight as much any longer. That and he is a liability as he has shown in the past so it is probably by design why he isn't in the limelight any longer.

Sam Russell

breezy1985 wrote: »

The disappearance of Mogg is a particularly noticable one despite him being a hardcore no-dealer

His finger prints are all over the IMB and the similar paragraphs inserted into the finance bill. The reason for the latter is so that the HoL cannot interrupt a money bill.

serfboard

Enzokk wrote: »

since he became leader of the house his focus has actually shifted and he isn't in the limelight as much any longer. That and he is a liability as he has shown in the past so it is probably by design why he isn't in the limelight any longer.

Indeed.

During the 2019 general election, Rees-Mogg was criticised after an interview with LBC's Nick Ferrari during which he said it would have been "common sense" for residents to flee the Grenfell Tower fire, ignoring fire brigade advice to stay put. Several hours later, Rees-Mogg said he "profoundly apologised" for his comments. Rees-Mogg subsequently made fewer media appearances throughout the rest of the election campaign (in which the Conservatives ultimately won), fuelling speculation in the media that he was under orders from Downing Street to keep a low profile as a result of the Ferrari interview, which was supposedly perceived as damaging to the party.

Mr.Wemmick

I told ya wrote: »

Is it my imagination or have a lot of the ardent Brexiters gone to ground over the last few months? The OH is English and has Radio4 on all the time. No sign of JRM, Davis, Fox, Francois, Farage and others. Absolutely, no sign of the DUP. Also, Brexit backers like Tim Martin, James Dyson, Jim Ratcliff, Anthony Bamford amongst others. Programs like Today, PM, Any Questions. Don't seem to have them on any more.

I don't have much of an opinion of Michael Gove but at least he's still out there battling for brexit.

It's not just the main brexiteer mouthpeices you mention here, it's evident too on social media where I live in the UK. Brexiteer silence is oddly deafening.

Yes, you get the usual thick knuckle-draggers' diatribe, but no pro-brexit arguments are coming through anymore like they did a few years ago.

I guess a lot of ardent brexiteers are no longer sure of what they voted for. Mind you, the daily fail and torygraph would have you believe otherwise.

Leroy42

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

It's not just the main brexiteer mouthpeices you mention here, it's evident too on social media where I live in the UK. Brexiteer silence is oddly deafening.

Yes, you get the usual thick knuckle-draggers' diatribe, but no pro-brexit arguments are coming through anymore like they did a few years ago.

I guess a lot of ardent brexiteers are no longer sure of what they voted for. Mind you, the daily fail and torygraph would have you believe otherwise.

Why would they bother? Its done. At best there is a thin FTA, but there is no prospect of closer ties any time in the medium term. They have successfully placed EU as the fault for everything and have the second excuse of Covid.

There is nothing left to do. Or say

trellheim

As Han Solo said, I've got a bad feeling about this ......

54and56

Leroy42 wrote: »

Why would they bother? Its done. At best there is a thin FTA, but there is no prospect of closer ties any time in the medium term. They have successfully placed EU as the fault for everything and have the second excuse of Covid.

There is nothing left to do. Or say

Like all good (bad) terrorists their job is to plant and arm the bomb then get as far away from said bomb as possible before it goes off.

The damage done is for others to suffer!! :mad:

Strazdas

Seems Macron's demands on fish and state aid are not going down well with the Brexiteers (FT tonight).

ancapailldorcha

Strazdas wrote: »

Seems Macron's demands on fish and state aid are not going down well with the Brexiteers (FT tonight).

A part of me is wondering if Johnson is planning to go for a closer deal than the likes of the ERG would tolerate but leave until the last minute. He's already squandered the political capital on the Kent lorry parks so I can't see a BRINO but ultimately it's hard to know how this will play out because nobody, including HM government knows what the British side want or will settle for.

Spanish Eyes

It is all brinkmanship now, mostly on the part of the British, but I would say that wouldn't I?

The hubris of Gavin Williamson had one message..... we are first and the EU has still to say yes to the vaccines. Well in fairness despite my scepticism he could be correct. The EU will approve the vaccines, they have to really, for good or for ill, all other countries are doing it now and getting ducks in a row for administration of it. UK will be ahead if they get the distribution right, EU will be a bit behind. That is a stick for the Brexiteers to beat now.

Honestly, played a blinder, and at the same time has taken the focus off Brexit.

listermint

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

It is all brinkmanship now, mostly on the part of the British, but I would say that wouldn't I?

The hubris of Gavin Williamson had one message..... we are first and the EU has still to say yes to the vaccines. Well in fairness despite my scepticism he could be correct. The EU will approve the vaccines, they have to really, for good or for ill, all other countries are doing it now and getting ducks in a row for administration of it. UK will be ahead if they get the distribution right, EU will be a bit behind. That is a stick for the Brexiteers to beat now.

Honestly, played a blinder, and at the same time has taken the focus off Brexit.

It hasn't and it won't.

Bizarre reading of the situation. Brexit will explode over the next few weeks.

Spanish Eyes

listermint wrote: »

It hasn't and it won't.

Bizarre reading of the situation. Brexit will explode over the next few weeks.

Glad you agree with me lol.

But there will be an agreement. My point was, as you know really, is that uk is delighted in being first and ahead of the EU in the vaccine issue. Because they are not in the EU anymore.

It is a UK v EU issue I think.

GazzaL

Regardless of whether there is a deal done, the paperwork and bureacracy will be a huge, costly barrier for SMEs on both sides. Hardly ideal at a time when there is also a global shipping crisis and surcharges on containers arriving at UK ports. There will be significant price increases on consumer goods next year.

Hermy

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

...we are first and the EU has still to say yes to the vaccines...

First for vaccines but also first for deaths - 60,000 and counting!

It's pathetic that their politicians are trying to turn a worldwide humanitarian crisis into a p!ssing contest.

But sadly there must be an audience for this kind of crap eager to lap it up or it wouldn't be happening.

Capt'n Midnight

CrabRevolution wrote: »

So not only is the EU not playing "bad cop", the EU states somehow don't agree with the Brexiters' insistence that everyone is desperate for a deal with the UK at any cost....

Katya Adler's take on it. Loads of time left.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55157177

The EU - infamously talented at the old goalpost-moving - has admitted that not only does the European Parliament not need to ratify an agreement for it to be provisionally applied as of 1 January, but that EU leaders don't even need to sign off on the treaty in person. An approved member of their government could do that instead, from the comfort of their own home.

How far exactly have the goalposts moved since April 2017 when the EU replied to Article 50 ?

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

Critique the comment, not the commenter please

Professor Moriarty

Hermy wrote: »

First for vaccines but also first for deaths - 60,000 and counting!

It's pathetic that their politicians are trying to turn a worldwide humanitarian crisis into a p!ssing contest.

But sadly there must be an audience for this kind of crap eager to lap it up or it wouldn't be happening.

Read the comments section on any Brexit article in The Telegraph. Very informative as to the real nature of Brexit. Much use of Little Man, Napoleon, Micron, Macaroni etc. (Macron), Uncultured Snakes (French), EUSSR, Quasi-fascists (EU), Verruca (Varadkar), Oirish (Irish people) et cetera ad nauseam. Racism hiding in plain sight.

Strazdas

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Read the comments section on any Brexit article in The Telegraph. Very informative as to the real nature of Brexit. Much use of Little Man, Napoleon, Micron, Macaroni etc. (Macron), Uncultured Snakes (French), EUSSR, Quasi-fascists (EU), Verruca (Varadkar), Oirish (Irish people) et cetera ad nauseam. Racism hiding in plain sight.

Not to mention the attacks on black people, Muslims and refugees from the exact same people.

Infini

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

It is all brinkmanship now, mostly on the part of the British, but I would say that wouldn't I?

This isn't brinkmanship, this is outright sabotage plain and simple, they're attempting to get their own way by deliberately trashing things but I honestly think at this point the EU side have had enough, they've done everything reasonable and have never shut the door sooner than needs be but we're reaching THE point of no return where the EU simply will not be able to ratify anything in time for January 1st even if something is agreed and yet the UK is for all intents and purposes pushing through legislation which in and of itself break's both the paper they signed less than a year since it was brought into force and for all intents has no interest in keeping it's word.

At this point were all basically waiting for the moment the timer runs out and the real chaos begins, all brought to you by Bollox Johnson and the CONservative Scam Party. If shít really does hit the fan I'd honestly say that until this goverment is thrown out of office or run outta town that noone should agree or negotiate anything with them until a new goverment that has some sense of credibility and integrity is in place. Til then this lot need to completely and utterly own the consequences of their own creation as well as the price of such stupidity and blatant idiocy.