Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

Professor Moriarty

Strazdas wrote: »

Not to mention the attacks on black people, Muslims and refugees from the exact same people.

It reveals the true motivations behind the Brexit vote. Latent racism, dog whistled by Farage and Johnson, allied to exceptionalism. It's not representative of the majority of British people but it does represent a significant minority. Similar to Trump's populist harnessing of right-wing Whitey's grievances, Brexiteers channeled the frustration of older and less educated people. All of the Brexit research talks about 'immigration' and 'sovereignty' but in reality it's arrogant nationalism.

Spanish Eyes

Hubris then, is that a better way of putting it?

It is what the uk has done all along. You know.... the exceptionalism.

Infini

Oh and just for shíts and giggles...

https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1334500715448954885

Spanish Eyes

Infini wrote: »

This isn't brinkmanship, this is outright sabotage plain and simple, they're attempting to get their own way by deliberately trashing things but I honestly think at this point the EU side have had enough, they've done everything reasonable and have never shut the door sooner than needs be but we're reaching THE point of no return where the EU simply will not be able to ratify anything in time for January 1st even if something is agreed and yet the UK is for all intents and purposes pushing through legislation which in and of itself break's both the paper they signed less than a year since it was brought into force and for all intents has no interest in keeping it's word.

At this point were all basically waiting for the moment the timer runs out and the real chaos begins, all brought to you by Bollox Johnson and the CONservative Scam Party. If shít really does hit the fan I'd honestly say that until this goverment is thrown out of office or run outta town that noone should agree or negotiate anything with them until a new goverment that has some sense of credibility and integrity is in place. Til then this lot need to completely and utterly own the consequences of their own creation as well as the price of such stupidity and blatant idiocy.

The EU and Ireland will be blamed no matter what, but who cares now.

It is a tragedy for everyone.

Professor Moriarty

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Hubris then, is that a better way of putting it?

It is what the uk has done all along. You know.... the exceptionalism.

Yeah, hubris works too. More English than British though. And I say that as someone who has many English friends.

ExMachina1000

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It reveals the true motivations behind the Brexit vote. Latent racism, dog whistled by Farage and Johnson, allied to exceptionalism. It's not representative of the majority of British people but it does represent a significant minority. Similar to Trump's populist harnessing of right-wing Whitey's grievances, Brexiteers channeled the frustration of older and less educated people. All of the Brexit research talks about 'immigration' and 'sovereignty' but in reality it's arrogant nationalism.

Priti Patel the British secretary of state from Ugandan-Indian heritage
Preceded by Sajid Javid of Pakistani heritage
Rishi Sunak Chancellor of the exchequer of Punjabi Hindu parents who emigrated from West Africa
Alok Sharma the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy born in India.

A real racist party. I would wager a more diverse group than anything on offer in Ireland.

BonnieSituation

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Priti Patel the British secretary of state from Ugandan-Indian heritage
Preceded by Sajid Javid of Pakistani heritage
Rishi Sunak Chancellor of the exchequer of Punjabi Hindu parents who emigrated from West Africa
Alok Sharma the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy born in India.

A real racist party. I would wager a more diverse group than anything on offer in Ireland.

Are you saying that non-White people can't be racist?

Professor Moriarty

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Priti Patel the British secretary of state from Ugandan-Indian heritage
Preceded by Sajid Javid of Pakistani heritage
Rishi Sunak Chancellor of the exchequer of Punjabi Hindu parents who emigrated from West Africa
Alok Sharma the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy born in India.

A real racist party. I would wager a more diverse group than anything on offer in Ireland.

I don't know what point you're trying to make. I never mentioned the Tory party.

Professor Moriarty

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Are you saying that non-White people can't be racist?

The people they mentioned are right-wing Brexiteers, but maybe they didn't know that.

54and56

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Priti Patel the British secretary of state from Ugandan-Indian heritage
Preceded by Sajid Javid of Pakistani heritage
Rishi Sunak Chancellor of the exchequer of Punjabi Hindu parents who emigrated from West Africa
Alok Sharma the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy born in India.

A real racist party. I would wager a more diverse group than anything on offer in Ireland.

They are mere pawns on the chessboard of political life compared to a half Indian gay Taoiseach (in English - Prime Minister) like Leo Varadkar or the equal opportunities Ireland affords pre-historic cavemen like Danny Healy-Rae (an actual double barreled surname unlike Ian (changed on a personal whim to Iain) Duncan (second/third Christian name not surname) Smith which absolutely proves there is no IQ or educational requirement barriers to becoming a legislator in the great Republic of Ireland.

ExMachina1000

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Are you saying that non-White people can't be racist?

Of course not.
Are you saying the above people I mentioned are racist?

Spanish Eyes

LBC RADIO is joe duffy style with intelligence from the presenters. Get it?

But the usuals here will never turn the dial. So here we are.

jm08

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Priti Patel the British secretary of state from Ugandan-Indian heritage
Preceded by Sajid Javid of Pakistani heritage
Rishi Sunak Chancellor of the exchequer of Punjabi Hindu parents who emigrated from West Africa
Alok Sharma the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy born in India.

A real racist party. I would wager a more diverse group than anything on offer in Ireland.

Its interesting that they are mostly of Indian heritage which of course has the Caste system. Hindus seem to be very conservative, so its hardly odd that they are attracted to the Tories. No one should be surprised with Patel's racism bearing in mind that she is a Hindu. It looks like British Pakistanis are attracted to the Labour Party.



Didn't Sajid Javid get the elbow from Boris?

BonnieSituation

54and56 wrote: »

They are mere pawns on the chessboard of political life compared to a half Indian gay Taoiseach (in English - Prime Minister) like Leo Varadkar or the equal opportunities Ireland affords pre-historic cavemen like Danny Healy-Rae (an actual double barreled surname unlike Ian (changed on a personal whim to Iain) Duncan (second/third Christian name not surname) Smith which absolutely proves there is no IQ or educational requirement barriers to becoming a legislator in the great Republic of Ireland.

It's not a double-barrelled name in the strictest sense of how they come to be. The "Rae" is the place they are from. Named after the farm Jackie grew up on called "Reacashlagh".

I'm guessing there's a hape of Healys' in Kilgarvan that they wanted to differentiate themselves from.

BonnieSituation

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Of course not.
Are you saying the above people I mentioned are racist?

Yes.

Strazdas

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It reveals the true motivations behind the Brexit vote. Latent racism, dog whistled by Farage and Johnson, allied to exceptionalism. It's not representative of the majority of British people but it does represent a significant minority. Similar to Trump's populist harnessing of right-wing Whitey's grievances, Brexiteers channeled the frustration of older and less educated people. All of the Brexit research talks about 'immigration' and 'sovereignty' but in reality it's arrogant nationalism.

100% : go onto the Twitter page of any UKIP or Brexit Party supporter and you'll find tons of offensive posts about black people and Muslims. These are out and racists who somehow managed to make the mostly white and Christian EU an equal target for their bigotry.

ExMachina1000

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Yes.

Racist towards who?

Capt'n Midnight

Slightly off topic, but remember when there were noises about cutting off our fuel supplies ?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/oil-could-flow-from-barryroe-within-three-years-1.4423686

Barryroe could yield 350 million barrels of oil, enough to supply all the Republic’s needs for almost a decade at current consumption, along with a significant amount of natural gas.

O'Neill

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Priti Patel the British secretary of state from Ugandan-Indian heritage
Preceded by Sajid Javid of Pakistani heritage
Rishi Sunak Chancellor of the exchequer of Punjabi Hindu parents who emigrated from West Africa
Alok Sharma the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy born in India.

A real racist party. I would wager a more diverse group than anything on offer in Ireland.

Jesus. Where to even begin. I don't give one jot what herritage an MP is but all 3 of those MPs are horrific self serving politicans. Hardly diverse. They're not exactly bright either. I still can't make up my mind if there's something sinister going on in the cabinet or they really just thick. It does seem like this has got to be the worst cabinet and Government the UK has for at least quite some time.

At the danger of moralising everthing, I really am disgusted at the discourse right now. With the pandemic that has now killed 60,000 people, mental health crises, job inscurity and Brexit.. and you see the rhetoric of Williamson ect.. I despair. The UK needs leadership and it most certainly isn't getting any from this Government.

Tell me how

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Priti Patel the British secretary of state from Ugandan-Indian heritage
Preceded by Sajid Javid of Pakistani heritage
Rishi Sunak Chancellor of the exchequer of Punjabi Hindu parents who emigrated from West Africa
Alok Sharma the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy born in India.

A real racist party. I would wager a more diverse group than anything on offer in Ireland.

Priti Patel's immigration policies would have prevented her parents and many other immigrants from similar backgrounds from moving to the UK. What word would you use to describe her?

As for Ireland, we have had a gay Indian descended Taoiseach, we recently had an American born lesbian serve as a Minister and the Lord Mayor of Dublin is of Chinese descent, and we elected an Indian from the West of Ireland to Dail Eireann 30 years ago. One of our most famous Taoisigh and Presidents was born in the US. Given the difference in population size, and the diversity amongst the general population, I think we're not doing too bad in terms of the diversity within Irelands governing circles compared to the Uk.

paul71

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Of course not.
Are you saying the above people I mentioned are racist?

Priti Patel is racist, the fact that she herself is of a minority race does not make that untrue.

Enzokk

Tell me how wrote: »

As for Ireland, we have had a gay Indian descended Taoiseach, we recently had an American born lesbian serve as a Minister and the Lord Mayor of Dublin is of Chinese descent, and we elected an Indian from the West of Ireland to Dail Eireann 30 years ago. One of our most famous Taoisigh and Presidents was born in the US. Given the difference in population size, and the diversity amongst the general population, I think we're not doing too bad in terms of the diversity within Irelands governing circles compared to the Uk.

Much like the response with Covid, I think Ireland is better than the UK when it comes to representation and the way minorities are treated, but that is not to say it is brilliant here. We just haven't had a system that is out to make it difficult for people from Caribbean descent to live in their own country. No amount of minority representation at cabinet can wash that racism off the Tory party and the fact that 2 of the mentioned people from minorities was Home Secretary and didn't abolish the hostile environment or make it easier for victims to receive compensation, well that makes them racist.

Let me just add, just because you are a minority in one country doesn't make it impossible to be racist. If that was true, why is there "whitening" products in Asia?

ExMachina1000

O'Neill wrote: »

Jesus. Where to even begin. I don't give one jot what herritage an MP is but all 3 of those MPs are horrific self serving politicans. Hardly diverse. They're not exactly bright either. I still can't make up my mind if there's something sinister going on in the cabinet or they really just thick. It does seem like this has got to be the worst cabinet and Government the UK has for at least quite some time.

At the danger of moralising everthing, I really am disgusted at the discourse right now. With the pandemic that has now killed 60,000 people, mental health crises, job inscurity and Brexit.. and you see the rhetoric of Williamson ect.. I despair. The UK needs leadership and it most certainly isn't getting any from this Government.

I'm also disgusted that people will let their bias cloud reality.
This isn't the Brexit discussion thread. It's just another bash Britain thread under the guise of discussion.

Your post is fantasy, denial of the obvious and straw clutching rubbish.

I wont be posting here again.

ancapailldorcha

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I'm also disgusted that people will let their bias cloud reality.
This isn't the Brexit discussion thread. It's just another bash Britain thread under the guise of discussion.

Your post is fantasy, denial of the obvious and straw clutching rubbish.

I wont be posting here again.

If you don't want to post here then don't. Otherwise, please stop trolling and derailing the thread.

Back on topic please.

Silent Running

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Read the comments section on any Brexit article in The Telegraph. Very informative as to the real nature of Brexit. Much use of Little Man, Napoleon, Micron, Macaroni etc. (Macron), Uncultured Snakes (French), EUSSR, Quasi-fascists (EU), Verruca (Varadkar), Oirish (Irish people) et cetera ad nauseam. Racism hiding in plain sight.

I was driving round the M25 a couple of years ago, my wife had tuned in a local radio station as she likes talk radio. The host was interviewing the ex Brexit secretary Raab. I nearly crashed the car when he used the term "Filthy French" when he was moaning about something Macron had done.

This is the level of intelligence Barnier has had to deal with for the last four years. I feel for him and his team.

listermint

Strazdas wrote: »

Not to mention the attacks on black people, Muslims and refugees from the exact same people.

For clarity those voices majority are not real. Many are bots many are singular same accounts run by individuals. A minority are idiots who bought into it. It's an information and perception warfare strategy. Some of it run offshore by foreign advisories. Some of it run onshore out of streets of tufton.


Taking the comments to be attributed to actual citizens means it worked and or is working.

I'd go as far as to say that really stupid people like Raab are taken advantage of in twitter circles by the information machine accounts that become followers and blow smoke up his arse for years are then allowed reply and he blocks replies to middling or discenting accounts . Leaving him in an information echo chamber agreeing or leaning his views whatever way the group is.

This is the nature of twitter. See how many Tory MPs have blocked or banned opposing views.

Professor Moriarty

Silent Running wrote: »

I was driving round the M25 a couple of years ago, my wife had tuned in a local radio station as she likes talk radio. The host was interviewing the ex Brexit secretary Raab. I nearly crashed the car when he used the term "Filthy French" when he was moaning about something Macron had done.

This is the level of intelligence Barnier has had to deal with for the last four years. I feel for him and his team.

This is the same Raab who said there "wouldn't be a customs border down the Red Sea". The same Raab who, as Brexit Secretary, didn't read the GFA because "it isn't a cracking read". The same Raab who, as Brexit Secretary, was amazed and "didn't understand" how much British trade relies on the Dover-Calais crossing. The same Raab who, as Foreign Secretary, said in regard to BLM that "taking the knee is from Game of Thrones". The same Raab who believes that "British workers are among the worst idlers in the world".

And so on. That's the level of competence you get when you elect elitist populists.

ancapailldorcha

Silent Running wrote: »

I was driving round the M25 a couple of years ago, my wife had tuned in a local radio station as she likes talk radio. The host was interviewing the ex Brexit secretary Raab. I nearly crashed the car when he used the term "Filthy French" when he was moaning about something Macron had done.

This is the level of intelligence Barnier has had to deal with for the last four years. I feel for him and his team.

Are you sure he said this? Talks have certainty become acrimonious but that's an appalling thing for a foreign secretary to come out with.

Would you have a link at all?

Silent Running

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Are you sure he said this? Talks have certainty become acrimonious but that's an appalling thing for a foreign secretary to come out with.

Would you have a link at all?

I'm 100% positive he said exactly this. I was shocked and my wife confirmed that it was what he had said. It was very shortly after he was replaced as Brexit secretary.

I don't have a link. I don't even know the station she had tuned in to. Some local station, I don't think it was any BBC thing. I was travelling between the M4 junction and the M1 junction at the time and my wife had just scanned the band for something to listen to.

ancapailldorcha

Silent Running wrote: »

I'm 100% positive he said exactly this. I was shocked and my wife confirmed that it was what he had said. It was very shortly after he was replaced as Brexit secretary.

I don't have a link. I don't even know the station she had tuned in to. Some local station, I don't think it was any BBC thing. I was travelling between the M4 junction and the M1 junction at the time and my wife had just scanned the band for something to listen to.

I'll have a look later but it's not the end of the world of I can't get it. I'm just flabbergasted that he'd come out with such a direct slur like that in an interview.