Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

peter kern

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So why then is he calling the leaders of the larger countries in terms of trade talks as if Merkel and Macron are in charge of the EU negotiations?

this happend before when theresa went to berlin so nothing new really.

maybe the eu should call scotland and try to agree on a uk deal and see what boris will say lol .

AutoTuning

Cue the faux jingoistic outrage and war references. It’s tiresome

Professor Moriarty

ath262 wrote: »

dont know if the 'refused' call report is true or even accurate, but some daft brexiter mp posted about this report on a while ago on twitter - "..millions of Britons that are deeply insulted at the shocking news that the German Chancellor has refused the British Prime Minister’s request for a telephone call. This is an insult to every Briton, whether they support our PM.."


It seems he also fails to grasp the concept that Brexit Trade negogtiation go through the the assigned team, the attempt to sidetrack this by Boris earlier in the week failed

Just more twisting of the truth by the Tory Brexiteer Party. What they are doing now is textbook gaslighting of the British public.

Rrrrrr2

AutoTuning wrote: »

Cue the faux jingoistic outrage and war references. It’s tiresome

Think most of Europe is passed caring at this stage.

Strazdas

AutoTuning wrote: »

The U.K. may have been a big proponent of the single market, but the U.K. isn’t exclusively the current batch of jingoistic Tories and UKIP. The sensible half of the country seems to have been swamped by this and the debates that should have been happening didn’t.

It’s easy to personify and entire country as “The Brits” but it’s worth remembering for every Widdicombe or Farage there’s a Mowlam or a Major.

Unfortunately, the Blackadder, Lord Melchett brigade is firmly in charge and seems to be determined to go for the “big push” even if it destroys the country.

The writers of that show really had the measure of the pompous twits who seem to rise to the top due to connections, accent and class based entitlement rather than on merit.

I think the fiascos in the US and UK also show the merits of proportional representation democracies. This couldn’t happen in most European counties due to most of us not being fans of placing too much power in one party or one individual’s exclusive control.

The parliamentary mathematics in Westminster really don’t look likely to deliver anything other than some form of hard Brexit, regardless of what the opinion of the other half of the U.K. might be or the majority of two of the countries they make it up, their fate is sealed by a simple majoritarian system and a technical majority.

Unfortunately, the good guys like John Major, Ken Clarke, Dominic Grieve etc have largely been silenced, especially by the toxic right wing press. We get to hear from them sometimes, but they are mostly ignored.

bobmalooka

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Think most of Europe is passed caring at this stage.

Entirely for domestic consumption.

Direct blame at the pesky Europeans rather than at the tories

MrMusician18

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Dover experiencing an early preview of what will likely become a permanent feature come Jan 1st.

New innovative jams?

kowloon

Nody wrote: »

The tariffs are here; the problem is identifying in which category every single item falls into. Simply scroll down to EU and to the furthest right you have Bound Tariffs as an downloadable excel file with all categories and tariff amounts.

I buy goods from the US all the time and customs frequently get the wrong category and I have to claim back. This is under normal conditions. I expect an absolute ****show when the UK kicks off as a separate trading entity.


Another relevant site:
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en

AutoTuning

Yeah, and it’s often not Revenue / Customs but the shipping agent or courier companies that make a mess of it and also extract heavy processing fees for the often rather small tariff you’re paying.

I’ve had US items inaccurately declared or processing fees levied that shouldn’t have been.

I’m not ordering anything from the U.K. of any value until this settles down. Even items ordered now could easily get stuck after Christmas.

breezy1985

ElJeffe wrote: »

Doesn't look like it. I think they always knew this moment would come. It's all eyes on them now to see how they will handle it.

Like people who are panicking I reckon

ElJeffe

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So why then is he calling the leaders of the larger countries in terms of trade talks as if Merkel and Macron are in charge of the EU negotiations?

Trying to make it look like he is doing everything in his power to prevent No Deal.

No Deal is happening now guaranteed, it's just about playing to the domestic audiences

AutoTuning

The problem is quite simple: There’s an aspect of the U.K. including the media who don’t understand how a federal type system works. The idea of a union of equal partners is beyond their comprehension.

They’re used to a highly centralised state, run by one supreme country, with the other members being subservient to it. They’re also old imperialists who rather weirdly see the EU in terms of a 19th century empire, instead of a modern cooperative group of equals in a rights and rule of law based agreed union that’s operated for mutual benefit.

So their belief is that the EU is run by Germany, or at most by Germany and France. They don’t or can’t understand why Merkel or Macron aren’t calling the shots or why it involves finding a consensus with 27 members when the biggest member should just sit them down and say “listen here you puny and unimportant countries: This is how it’s going to be!”

Trying to explain the idea of a federation of equal members to them is pointless. You’ll get nowhere and they’ll keep going back to “Karen” mode, demanding to speak to the EU’s manager, who the imagine is Merkel.

AutoTuning

J Mysterio wrote: »

Speeches like this?

Sorry to inflict this on everyone again.

Widdecombe's lack of self awareness is incredible.

EU = Empire
UK = Colony

It’s basically the bizarre cultural appropriation of your own empire’s victims sense of victimhood!

Strazdas

AutoTuning wrote: »

The problem is quite simple: There’s an aspect of the U.K. including the media who don’t understand how a federal type system works. The idea of a union of equal partners is beyond their comprehension.

They’re used to a highly centralised state, run by one supreme country, with the other members being subservient to it. They’re also old imperialists who rather weirdly see the EU in terms of a 19th century empire, instead of a modern cooperative group of equals in a rights and rule of law based agreed union that’s operated for mutual benefit.

So their belief is that the EU is run by Germany, or at most by Germany and France. They don’t or can’t understand why Merkel or Macron aren’t calling the shots or why it involves finding a consensus with 27 members when the biggest member should just sit them down and say “listen here you puny and unimportant countries: This is how it’s going to be!”

Trying to explain the idea of a federation of equal members to them is pointless. You’ll get nowhere and they’ll keep going back to “Karen” mode, demanding to speak to the EU’s manager, who the imagine is Merkel.

Run by Germany and France and yet neither country is sovereign according to them

deathbomber

And so it begins small don't give up reports emerging. A deal will be done

AutoTuning

Strazdas wrote: »

Run by Germany and France and yet neither country is sovereign according to them

Their idea odd sovereignty seems to be an inability to enter into any binding agreement with anyone ever on any topic. It’s a similar ideology to the “freemen on the land” being brought to international relations.

It’s no longer a world of empires, rather it’s one of networks, agreements and federations. If you’re not able to cooperate and connect, I’m not quite sure how they’ll fit in.

There’s also a huge degree of just foaming at the mouth Europhobia in it. They signed up to trade deals with Japan that included level playing field clauses. They also wanted, rather bizarrely, to join the Trans Pacific Trade Alliance, a multilateral bloc, with many of the features of the EU.

So it’s fairly clear their issue is a jingoistic hatred of the EU, not really sovereignty.

Rrrrrr2

BoJo is looking forward to the wonderful times ahead trading under wto terms in a bright new future- only thing is, there’ll be very little actual trading being under wto terms with Europe as its simply uncompetitive

yagan

AutoTuning wrote: »

So it’s fairly clear their issue is a jingoistic hatred of the EU, not really sovereignty.

They pathologically fear being treated as they treated other nations. Attack and conquer is their culture.

Their poundshop empire in Europe are ghettos in Spain, France and Portugal where the English tabloids are shared around and speaking the local language is beneath them.

Their motto is an Englishman is never a stranger in another country. Expats, never immigrants.

Strazdas

yagan wrote: »

They pathologically fear being treated as they treated other nations. Attack and conquer is their culture.

Their poundshop empire in Europe are ghettos in Spain, France and Portugal where the English tabloids are shared around and speaking the local language is beneath them.

Their motto is an Englishman is never a stranger in another country. Expats, never immigrants.

A lot of truth in this. The Brexiteer mindset is that their nation can never be "equal partners" with a bunch of second rate losers they either defeated or liberated during the War.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Please don't just paste videos and tweets here. Two posts have been removed.

Seth Brundle

The BBC reckon the position of EU members has hardened (by not facilitating meetings with individual leaders) when in fact it hasn't changed...
Brexit: EU leaders close ranks as no-deal talk mounts

It's terrible how partisan the BBC have become

Geuze

Jensen Glamorous Luck wrote: »

I've been lurking on this thread the past week or so but think it was here I saw a post about tarriffs/charges on various goods that could/would be coming into effect. Mechanical parts+appliances is the one I'm mainly looking out for as my father is a fitter and is worried about cost of parts jumping considerably. If anyone could link me a table or article on these expected charges would appreciate it. Thanks

TARIC codes


https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/calculation-customs-duties/what-is-common-customs-tariff/taric_en

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en

https://www.revenue.ie/en/customs-traders-and-agents/importing-and-exporting/classification/index.aspx

Piehead

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The BBC reckon the position of EU members has hardened (by not facilitating meetings with individual leaders) when in fact it hasn't changed...
Brexit: EU leaders close ranks as no-deal talk mounts

It's terrible how partisan the BBC have become

It’s by Katya Adler. She’s a dose with her ‘imaginary’ sources and made up tittle tattle that’s always wrong.

MrMusician18

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The BBC reckon the position of EU members has hardened (by not facilitating meetings with individual leaders) when in fact it hasn't changed...
Brexit: EU leaders close ranks as no-deal talk mounts

It's terrible how partisan the BBC have become

The bbc has always been partisan when the UK has skin in the game.

MrMusician18

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The bbc has always been partisan when the UK has skin in the game.

The clue is in their name, no national broadcaster is going to be openly critical of their own country, especially when the government is implementing the "will of the people".

A Dub in Glasgo

and the broadcaster gets its income from laws set by the govt

Sam Russell

Deleted User wrote: »

The clue is in their name, no national broadcaster is going to be openly critical of their own country, especially when the government is implementing the "will of the people".

... and deciding the licence fee. The BBC funding is under Gov control, as is the choice of Director General.

So, they have a vested interest in keeping on the Gov good side, or at least not telling it as it is.

ElJeffe

Seth Brundle wrote: »

The BBC reckon the position of EU members has hardened (by not facilitating meetings with individual leaders) when in fact it hasn't changed...
Brexit: EU leaders close ranks as no-deal talk mounts

It's terrible how partisan the BBC have become

Become? They've always been partisan. They are the state broadcaster

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

The clue is in their name, no national broadcaster is going to be openly critical of their own country, especially when the government is implementing the "will of the people".

Nobody's asking them to criticise the UK. They're supposed to hold the government to account. If they're just going to act as mouthpieces then why am I having to pay a licence fee under thread of imprisonment?

And as for the "will of the people"? You're going to have to back that up if you think that's what Johnson is pushing. He has a mandate to get a deal, not crash out without one. Nobody voted for no deal. Being outside the single market and customs union never meant trading on WTO terms to most people.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Nobody's asking them to criticise the UK. They're supposed to hold the government to account. If they're just going to act as mouthpieces then why am I having to pay a licence fee under thread of imprisonment?

And as for the "will of the people"? You're going to have to back that up if you think that's what Johnson is pushing. He has a mandate to get a deal, not crash out without one. Nobody voted for no deal. Being outside the single market and customs union never meant trading on WTO terms to most people.

The question was remain or leave the EU, nothing about a deal.