Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

Hurrache

Throwing the LVF out the window from the outset, like they've resigned to the fact there won't be a deal.

https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1337883390872317961?s=19

54and56

ElJeffe wrote: »

I do wish he wouldn't bother. I don't think Irish politicians going on UK TV/Radio shows and lecturing the British has been helpful at all tbh. Coveney in particular won't shut up and it just further entrenches the Brexiters arrogance and pig headed attitude.

They aren't going to effect or influence anything.

Have to say I disagree.

Every time any Irish Taoiseach gets an opportunity to assert our national interests should be taken. It helps to keep our (Irish) issues on the agenda of both the UK and EU and prevents us from being a forgotten after thought.

What's the downside?

Capt'n Midnight

Jizique wrote: »

I know a thing or two about the car industry but honestly, who the f*ck is Britishvolt? Now, perhaps it is a new startup,

LOL

Are you suggesting it's like that ferry company or the PPE companies or the Test and Trace companies that supposedly benefited from chumocracy ?


In unrelated news Boeing just got £500m for something they should have done as part of an £800m contract back in 2010. Because the magic money tree still delivers, to the right people.





Yeah it's worth more than a years fish.

Strazdas

Hurrache wrote: »

Throwing the LVF out the window from the outset, like they've resigned to the fact there won't be a deal.

https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1337883390872317961?s=19

What about all the other sectors? I don't think they've thought this through for a moment - this could lead to seething resentment across the nation. We're not talking about sectors which have been hit by flood damage or a hurricane or something.

Widdensushi

Hurrache wrote: »

Throwing the LVF out the window from the outset, like they've resigned to the fact there won't be a deal.

https://twitter.com/HarryYorke1/status/1337883390872317961?s=19

Support for fish, I thought they had all the fish now, price /market is everything.

CelticRambler

Strazdas wrote: »

They announce this as if it is of no consequence, but just think of the implications of it. Tory government policy is going to cause the damage to those industries and then they are going to use billions of pounds of taxpayers money to bail out said sectors. This would nearly cause street demonstrations or even riots in any other country - there's no way only those four sectors will be affected by No Deal.

Not exactly - a certain Donald Trump did exactly the same to his country's soybean farmers: killed off their business with his MAGA trade war against their biggest customer, then had to bail them out with huge amounts of taxpayers' dollars. Despite that and other stupidities on his part, 74 million voters - most of them victims of his economic destruction - still thought he was worth re-electing. Trumpism and Brexit have conclusively demonstrated that there is a significant proportion of the electorate that does not seem to understand the notion of "cause and effect" especially as applied to their own circumstances.

Patser

Well for all the bailouts, Cornwall is getting stiffed


https://twitter.com/GreenPartyMolly/status/1337851258200338434

RobertKK

https://twitter.com/goodclimate/status/1337903524710150145?s=20

All she wants is members of the EU to have a better deal as members, than a country that is not a member, however much entitlement the government of that non member country feels.

Strazdas

CelticRambler wrote: »

Not exactly - a certain Donald Trump did exactly the same to his country's soybean farmers: killed off their business with his MAGA trade war against their biggest customer, then had to bail them out with huge amounts of taxpayers' dollars. Despite that and other stupidities on his part, 74 million voters - most of them victims of his economic destruction - still thought he was worth re-electing. Trumpism and Brexit have conclusively demonstrated that there is a significant proportion of the electorate that does not seem to understand the notion of "cause and effect" especially as applied to their own circumstances.

Yes, but the point here is that No Deal would be causing havoc across the entire economy, causing company closures and lay offs all over the place. It's not as if 95%+ of the workforce would be unaffected and relaxed enough about state aid going to some industries.

Capt'n Midnight

Patser wrote: »

Well for all the bailouts, Cornwall is getting stiffed

twitter.com/GreenPartyMolly/status/1337851258200338434

Cornwall went under that Big Red Bus right after it voted because it was no longer needed.


Care for a game of Spot the Difference ?

From 2016 The county has received £1bn of aid over the past 15 years with more than £400m in the pipeline until 2020 because of its relatively weak economy.

From 2017 The Department for Communities and Local Government (DCLG) has awarded the region £18m in its latest round of "growth deal" investment.

Infini

ElJeffe wrote: »

I do wish he wouldn't bother. I don't think Irish politicians going on UK TV/Radio shows and lecturing the British has been helpful at all tbh. Coveney in particular won't shut up and it just further entrenches the Brexiters arrogance and pig headed attitude.

They aren't going to effect or influence anything.

Someone needs to bluntly tell them the truth since far too many of them have been fed bullshít and lies for the last 40 odd years. When they come asking for the opinions of our politicians they'll at least get more reliable truth and facts from us than they'll ever get from the Tory Party.

The "arrogant and pid headheaded" attitude of the Brexiteer's is irrelevant, they believe in delusions and lies, if they can't accept reality that's tough shít it's going to keep hitting them relentlessly until they either give in and accept the truth or shut up and keep their stupidity to themselves. If they aren't capable of any form of analytical thinking they're best staying out of the way as all they'll get is a well deserve kicking to their ego's when hard fact's destroy their delusions and unicorns in the end.

RobertKK wrote: »

https://twitter.com/goodclimate/status/1337903524710150145?s=20

All she wants is members of the EU to have a better deal as members, than a country that is not a member, however much entitlement the government of that non member country feels.

Honestly toxic rag publications like this should have been shut down or reined in decades ago, freedom of expression is one thing, blatant lies and distortion of truth is an entirely different thing altogether. Might have never come to this situation if they'd never been allowed to bleat their bull for cash over the years.

Nate--IRL--

RobertKK wrote: »

https://twitter.com/goodclimate/status/1337903524710150145?s=20

All she wants is members of the EU to have a better deal as members, than a country that is not a member, however much entitlement the government of that non member country feels.

That's a disgraceful headline.

Nate

El Weirdo

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

That's a disgraceful headline.

Nate

It's the Mail. It's what they do.

deathbomber

El Weirdo wrote: »

It's the Mail. It's what they do.

Indeed, complete rag. Quite a bizarre paper in general

Professor Moriarty

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

That's a disgraceful headline.

Nate

That headline encapsulates why Britain will not agree a trade deal with the EU. They are utterly consumed and blinded by hubris and that has been laid bare for all to see. They have been imprisoned by English nationalism. Their problem. It will cost us and other countries in many ways but they need to go now. We can wish them well through gritted teeth but it's time for them to go the fúck away.

serfboard

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

That's a disgraceful headline.

Not as bad as this one though - about their own judges.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemies_of_the_People_(headline)

BonnieSituation

Tim Montgomerie was on the Press Review on Sky discussing this headline and was affronted by the "EU's continued intransigence".

Give me strength.

Infini

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That headline encapsulates why Britain will not agree a trade deal with the EU. They are utterly consumed and blinded by hubris and that has been laid bare for all to see. They have been imprisoned by English nationalism. Their problem. It will cost us and other countries in many ways but they need to go now. We can wish them well through gritted teeth but it's time for them to go the fúck away.

Ultimately what's needed is for those who brought all this about to be humbled by being made to answer for their lies and deceptions. I feel for those who never wanted this and are probably disgusted at the parts of their own country embracing this toxic stupidity with reckless abandon.

Ultimately though the one's who are pushing this are ultimately likely to pay the price, a currency with a loss of a third of its 2016 value, much higher prices and likely in the medium term the loss of Scotland and Northern Ireland. They probably think so what about all of it but the final cost could be much higher and they'll have nothing but themselves to blame for all this.

Capt'n Midnight

deathbomber wrote: »

Indeed, complete rag. Quite a bizarre paper in general

At one point the Irish paper was campaigning for the HPV vaccine, while the UK paper was campaigning against it.

That and the Daily Mail Cancer Song or the Daily Mail list of the things that gives you cancer should convince you they are only selling fear and outrage.
116-things-cause-CANCER vs the-daily-mails-list-of-things-that-give-you-cancer


But the website is good source for images to share on general news stories. Don't dragged in by the sidebar of shame. :eek:

Capt'n Midnight

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Tim Montgomerie was on the Press Review on Sky discussing this headline and was affronted by the "EU's continued intransigence".

Give me strength.

intransigence ?

Doesn't he know that the EU always caves in at the last minute.

Wolf359f

RobertKK wrote: »

https://twitter.com/goodclimate/status/1337903524710150145?s=20

All she wants is members of the EU to have a better deal as members, than a country that is not a member, however much entitlement the government of that non member country feels.

Sure the current PM posted lies about EU regulations for many years and now he's in charge of Brexit. Headlines like that are no surprise. They serve a purpose, to rally up the uninformed in the UK and piss of the rest in the EU, ultimately ending in what they want... a hard brexit.

At least Ireland has mitigated as best we can from a Hard Brexit, the withdrawal agreement diffusing the issues with the border and the extra sailings to mainland Europe. Companies have even taken the initiative and switched from making cheddar to more European cheeses etc...

Strazdas

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That headline encapsulates why Britain will not agree a trade deal with the EU. They are utterly consumed and blinded by hubris and that has been laid bare for all to see. They have been imprisoned by English nationalism. Their problem. It will cost us and other countries in many ways but they need to go now. We can wish them well through gritted teeth but it's time for them to go the fúck away.

It's weird to watch. Rather than confront their inner demons and numerous internal divisions, they've decided to pick a fight (lasting years) with their 27 nearest neighbours, as if those countries are somehow to blame. We're talking a form of psychosis here.

fash

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That headline encapsulates why Britain will not agree a trade deal with the EU. They are utterly consumed and blinded by hubris and that has been laid bare for all to see. They have been imprisoned by English nationalism. Their problem. It will cost us and other countries in many ways but they need to go now. We can wish them well through gritted teeth but it's time for them to go the fúck away.

I must say I'm undecided on whether there is a deal. All this still could be a manufactured crisis /fight the good fight drama. We'll see shortly.

Jizique

fash wrote: »

I must say I'm undecided on whether there is a deal. All this still could be a manufactured crisis /fight the good fight drama. We'll see shortly.

I had a similar view, as it is hard to see any method in their madness; however, I have always felt no-deal was underpriced, as Johnson simply did not prepare any landing zone for the population; all the talk about “let’s go WTO”, “prosper mightily”, and all the sunny upside from an “Australian deal” marched the troops up the hill with no way of getting them back down again

Leroy42

Surely people will start to question why, if brexit is such a good idea and the fabled opportunity of Brexit is coming, the government needs to use 10bn of tax payers money to give to businesses.

That is nearly a full year of EU contributions. This is on top of the 6bn already spent on Brexit preparation.

The 10bn is an acknowledgement that this is going to really hurt. And yet Marr etc will continue to act as if the outcome is in question. That it could go either way. Sure, nearly every expert and report and common sense tells us it will be terrible, but IDS and JRM and Johnson said something about opportunities and a great future so who can tell!

In the middle of a pandemic, where Manchester was refused 5m in additional funding, where the government argued against feeding needy school children, they have found 10bn to hand out to companies?

From where? How is the 10bn calculated, what does it cover? Is it only exporting companies, what about importers or retail that will be impacted by higher prices? Will consumers be protected from price increases?

We all know they haven't thought through those questions. This is yet another panic decision, to try to ward off the immediate panic and buy off the business leaders.

"You don't have to shut the entire factory, here is a few hundred million, lay the workers off gradually to avoid big news stories"

fash

Leroy42 wrote: »

The *10bn* is an acknowledgement that this is going to really hurt. ...

In the middle of a pandemic, where Manchester was refused *5m* in additional funding, where the government argued against feeding needy school children, they have found 10bn to hand out to companies?

The dissonance is rather stark isn't it.

banner4change

Micheal Martin on the Andrew Marr show now on BBC one.

Marr is a disgrace, always interrupting the Taoiseach and muttering under his breath. Seems like a proper brexiteer is Marr.

MM doing okay at times and at least he is putting a decent case to the British people that is where he is addressing about the consequences of no deal and the positives of the FTA.

Marr having a go with Ed Miliband now, what a horrible journalist he is so annoying and arrogant to the extreme.

CelticRambler

Leroy42 wrote: »

In the middle of a pandemic, where Manchester was refused 5m in additional funding, where the government argued against feeding needy school children, they have found 10bn to hand out to companies?

Not to mention the £29m seed money for the Festival of Brexit. I remain convinced that, amongst many other miscalculations, Johnson&Co have catastrophically choreographed everything about Brexit and it risks seeing the Conservative party destroyed in the next election.

When the Covid-dust has settled and people try to live life as it was before, there'll be more than enough examples of huge sums shovelled into the pockets of private companies without good reason or reasonable scrutiny, yet nothing availble for bog-standard community services. And this'll start to bite at the same time as the full impact of Brexit comes into play - the end of the EU's unilateral contingency measures; the failure of businesses that tried hanging on, but just couldn't cope with a lack of migrant workers, low-cost, on-time supplies, or hassle free exports to EU customers; the introduction of the ETIAS and the expiry of the first waivers; the graduation and entry into the workforce of today's A-level students, with degrees that are not automatically recognised by in the EU; and, of course, a cohort of new voters with no memory of the mythical Great Imperial Britain, but with family and friends enjoying the benefits of the wide open world of the EU27.

None of this will be evident on Jan 1st, 2021 - but it'll be a different story on Jan 1st, 2024.

Shelga

I don’t get why it’s like an “Aha! Gotcha!” moment when Marr tries to get Miliband to say he’ll vote for any deal, and Miliband doesn’t fully agree.

This is the Tory government. Any deal will be dire. Of course Labour are going to say they need to actually see the deal, but will most likely vote for it. I don’t see how that’s controversial.

Marr being incredibly annoying this morning. Sovereignty sovereignty sovereignty. Brits love their sovereignty and having control of their own country, apart from the fact that they have an unelected monarch as their head of state. That’s totally different. How dare anyone question that. Rule Britannia.

banner4change

Shelga wrote: »

I don’t get why it’s like an “Aha! Gotcha!” moment when Marr tries to get Miliband to say he’ll vote for any deal, and Miliband doesn’t fully agree.

This is the Tory government. Any deal will be dire. Of course Labour are going to say they need to actually see the deal, but will most likely vote for it. I don’t see how that’s controversial.

Marr being incredibly annoying this morning. Sovereignty sovereignty sovereignty. Brits love their sovereignty and having control of their own country, apart from the fact that they have an unelected monarch as their head of state. That’s totally different. How dare anyone question that. Rule Britannia.

Great post, the BBC are biased to the extreme about Brexit, isn’t Laura Kuessenburg the political editor there a close ally to BoJo?

If I were a tv license payer in the UK and a pro EU supporter I would be livid and extremely angry with this pro Brexit agenda. God the English media are full of this fawning and luv in with the tories and BoJo and his “no surrender” attitude that they are obsessed about across the Irish Sea.

It’s a return to the thatcher days of right wing nationalist guff that the tories are extremely comfortable with and love to portray themselves as the good cop while holding the eu “bureaucrats and bullies” to “shame”

That is Britain in the 21st century and that spells bad news for Anglo Irish relations which are at their lowest ebb since the 80’s.