Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

Mr.Nice Guy

Might be some movement this evening.

https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1341806106201509888

Nody

RobMc59 wrote: »

If and when a trade deal is agreed between the UK and EU i would think that's when the UK will begin looking to secure deals around the world in earnest.
For example,a deal with the US is a possibility.

Oh I definitely think UK will get an offer for a deal from the US; however if you think the Japan deal was one sided I think you'll find USA has whole new level of requirements and "punishment" in store for the UK. The requirements are already published for quite a while now; in no specific order GMO products not flagged as such, access to NHS "competitive bidding", increase in medicine prices ("Pay their fair share"), lower food standard requirements ("Because EU's requirements are unreasonable") etc. However; and this is the big kicker it's highly unlikely to be compatible with having an EU FTA. Hence the requirement for UK to "choose" which one to go with and I'm sure China will have similar items making that incompatible with EU and USA etc. That's the issue that's been posted about for quite a while now; the world is moving towards trade blocks and UK simply left one that sets many of the world's standards currently.

lawred2

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

BBC just now waking up to facts that on average a third of uk food comes from eu, this going up to half during winter.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-55408788

Why didn’t they publish this 5 years ago, sort of important in a country where kids go hungry

BBC are incorporated trolls where Brexit is concerned.

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I asked how it will soar. You said it. Back it up.

Perhaps you should read what I actually posted,I said the UK will soar imo

View

RobMc59 wrote: »

If and when a trade deal is agreed between the UK and EU i would think that's when the UK will begin looking to secure deals around the world in earnest.
For example,a deal with the US is a possibility.

The EU has more free trade deals of any country/organisation in the world bar CARICOM. It is hard to see the U.K. topping that, or even matching it.

PokeHerKing

I wonder has the covid Dover crisis made Bojo and co relent a little. Surely even their arrogance would have gotten a wake up call with the sudden chaos the French were able to cause by simply saying non!

RobMc59

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

What exactly do you mean by soar? Please be more specific please, we had 5 years of vague slogans.

Prices of pretty much everything could soar as pound becomes worthless, number of kids going hungry could increase further...

Yes uk could soar i just wonder by what metric you be measuring so future historians reading boards get a good chuckle

As I've said, I believe if the UK has reasonably frictionless access to the EU but can still do it's own trade deals elsewhere it can prosper.
Regarding future boards historians,they'll probably laugh at some of the more extreme suggestions British posters have had to endure about how the UK is about to capitulate,beg for mercy etc etc..None of which has ever happened.

Tell me how

RobMc59 wrote: »

Not everyone here in Britain cares about what brexiteers think and until the full details of any deal are released no one can say who has conceded what.
I was disappointed when the UK left the EU but will say this,if the UK has negotiated a deal which gives them access to the EU market relatively tariff free and allows them to wheel and deal on an international scale it will soar imo.

Can you see how, if this were true, that it would significantly undermine the reasons for being in the EU and would provide impetus for EU exiters in other countries to fuel calls to leave also.

I will be delighted if there is a deal, but I hope that it is one that does not undermine the EU project. And I don't suspect it will be. I expect going forward there will continue to be 'difficulties' between the EU and the UK and while the UK will claim the EU is being unreasonable, what they will be doing is fighting to maintain the integrity of the Union and I for one expect to support them in that.

The UK can't set out their own red lines, so as to secure their sovereignty and then complain when the EU does likewise.

listermint

RobMc59 wrote: »

As I've said, I believe if the UK has reasonably frictionless access to the EU but can still do it's own trade deals elsewhere it can prosper.
Regarding future boards historians,they'll probably laugh at some of the more extreme suggestions British posters have had to endure about how the UK is about to capitulate,beg for mercy etc etc..None of which has ever happened.

The UK isn't getting frictionless access to the EU to operate as an effective parasite just off its borders leeching from market access and under cutting EU countries.

It's this sort of fantasy that drove brexit.

And it's hilarious how you are still a pretend reformed remainer. Complete glass see through . Never believed it once.

yagan

RobMc59 wrote: »

None of which has ever happened.

What has London secured that's made Brexit worth it?

It seems it's gone from being a rule maker in the largest internal market bloc in the world to a trade bloc that's actually smaller than the UK!


Maybe the London money laundries are sleeping easier but everyone else is worried about shelves going bare, unicef and german food drops.

Would you have believed this if someone told you it four years ago?

Aidric

LOL

https://twitter.com/declanganley/status/1341825680326209540

Tell me how

RobMc59 wrote: »

As I've said, I believe if the UK has reasonably frictionless access to the EU but can still do it's own trade deals elsewhere it can prosper.
Regarding future boards historians,they'll probably laugh at some of the more extreme suggestions British posters have had to endure about how the UK is about to capitulate,beg for mercy etc etc..None of which has ever happened.

What do you think signing a Withdrawal Agreement, then threatening to renege on it, then bringing in law to break existing international law purely to get around it before weakening its resolve in applying it after it was defeated a number of times in the house of Lords?

What do you call the repeated changing of negotiating personnel on the side of the UK if it wasn't a form of capitulation?

What do you call the voting against the agreement under Theresa Mays government before voting for it under Johnsons government if it wasn't capitulation?

What do you call one of the chief Brexit advocates calling the Withdrawal Treaty the second worst deal in history, which was still passed?

What do you call countless government ministers going on national and international media saying that the UK was ready and doing everything they could but the EU wasn't being reasonable if it wasn't begging for mercy?

The UK went through 2 PM's, 2 General Elections and at least 2 Brexit Negotiators since Article 50 was invoked. How did this happen if there wasn't some form of capitulation?

Widdensushi

This deal means the loss of thousands of jobs in rural communities, a disaster, no deal was preferable.

Tell me how

Widdensushi wrote: »

This deal means the loss of thousands of jobs in rural communities, a disaster, no deal was preferable.

What?

How did you figure this out?

A Dub in Glasgo

Widdensushi wrote: »

This deal means the loss of thousands of jobs in rural communities, a disaster, no deal was preferable.

Brexit meant 'the loss of thousands of jobs in rural communities, a disaster,'

lawred2

Widdensushi wrote: »

This deal means the loss of thousands of jobs in rural communities, a disaster, no deal was preferable.

Horse has bolted where disasters are concerned

RobMc59

listermint wrote: »

The UK isn't getting frictionless access to the EU to operate as an effective parasite just off its borders leeching from market access and under cutting EU countries.

It's this sort of fantasy that drove brexit.

And it's hilarious how you are still a pretend reformed remainer. Complete glass see through . Never believed it once.

Until the details of any proposed deal are revealed we can only speculate on it but I would think any deal the EU would agree to demands some degree of compliance and following of EU rules by the UK.Why would I be happy at the prospect of a deal like this if I was a brexiteer?

Tell me how

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1341823543143768064

Narrative which seems to be emerging is somewhat predictable.

joe40

RobMc59 wrote: »

Until the details of any proposed deal are revealed we can only speculate on it but I would think any deal the EU would agree to demands some degree of compliance and following of EU rules by the UK.Why would I be happy at the prospect of a deal like this if I was a brexiteer?

The Brexit referendum was sold on the basis that there would be an easily negotiated trade deal afterwards, and there would be zero impact on Northern Ireland.
Talk of no deal only came about later when the EU started to present a few obvious issues.

RobMc59

joe40 wrote: »

The Brexit referendum was sold on the basis that there would be an easily negotiated trade deal afterwards, and there would be zero impact on Northern Ireland.
Talk of no deal only came about later when the EU started to present a few obvious issues.

I agree,I thought the UK public were lied to and their fears(which had been stoked up by the press)played a big part in the brexit vote.

listermint

RobMc59 wrote: »

Until the details of any proposed deal are revealed we can only speculate on it but I would think any deal the EU would agree to demands some degree of compliance and following of EU rules by the UK.Why would I be happy at the prospect of a deal like this if I was a brexiteer?

But your entire narrative for the last year has been pro brexit with a sprinkling of faux remainery items.

Let's be clear , there will be no deal that allows London remain as a financial power house sifting Euro transactions whilst also allowing undercutting of EU regulations for workers rights or rules.

This is hold all the cards guff. All of which has failed to pass on every negotiation since 2016. Capitulation everytime because the cards simply aren't there.

If you've fallen for the fish smoke screen you really have no idea how inept the Tories are and how absolutely professional the EU seasoned negotiators are.


It's night and day . It's big boy pants versus pullups.

breezy1985

fash wrote: »

. honestly!
(Hope mods ok with a one word tweet here- what else to say?)

They should drop it in parachute crates to really get the point across

breezy1985

joe40 wrote: »

The Brexit referendum was sold on the basis that there would be an easily negotiated trade deal afterwards, and there would be zero impact on Northern Ireland.
Talk of no deal only came about later when the EU started to present a few obvious issues.

Even worse than that Brexit was sold to the English with no mention of Northern Ireland what so ever.

The DUP coalition was the first time the penny dropped that NI even existed for many in England

salonfire

Why do people view the extra paperwork and form filling needed on the British side as some massive obstacle than will hold back their businesses?

Everything is computerized, the form filling will be online which can be completed by automation. Once the automation program is working, minimal human work is needed.

With mobile data and tablets, the information and 'paperwork' are in the truckers hands in a small device and will come with QR codes. A quick scan of the QR code and away he goes to Europe.

Paperwork is not going to mean some trucker sitting in a cab rifling through reams of paper looking for a particular slip of paper while an exasperated custom officer looks on.

Britain could do very well indeed. Access to the Single Market tariff-free without the EU payments means more money in London.

The EU folded like a cheap tent.

RobMc59

listermint wrote: »

But your entire narrative for the last year has been pro brexit with a sprinkling of faux remainery items.

Let's be clear , there will be no deal that allows London remain as a financial power house sifting Euro transactions whilst also allowing undercutting of EU regulations for workers rights or rules.

This is hold all the cards guff. All of which has failed to pass on every negotiation since 2016. Capitulation everytime because the cards simply aren't there.

If you've fallen for the fish smoke screen you really have no idea how inept the Tories are and how absolutely professional the EU seasoned negotiators are.


It's night and day . It's big boy pants versus pullups.

I've never been pro brexit but once the UK left there's no point dwelling on what might have been,look to the future and hope for a deal that everyone is reasonably happy with.Yes,the EU is the much bigger party and calls most of the shots.
It will be interesting to see how long any agreements are for and who adjudicates in any dispute.
Please listermint,don't try to insinuate fishing is unimportant to the EU,that's a farfetched suggestion at best.

ElJeffe

salonfire wrote: »

Why do people view the extra paperwork and form filling needed on the British side as some massive obstacle than will hold back their businesses?

Everything is computerized, the form filling will be online which can be completed by automation. Once the automation program is working, minimal human work is needed.

With mobile data and tablets, the information and 'paperwork' are in the truckers hands in a small device and will come with QR codes. A quick scan of the QR code and away he goes to Europe.

Paperwork is not going to mean some trucker sitting in a cab rifling through reams of paper looking for a particular slip of paper while an exasperated custom officer looks on.

Britain could do very well indeed. Access to the Single Market tariff-free without the EU payments means more money in London.

The EU folded like a cheap tent.

The devils in the detail but i'd tend to agree the Brits look like they've done well out of this.

Will be interesting to see the messaging from both sides on this.

salonfire

salonfire wrote: »

Why do people view the extra paperwork and form filling needed on the British side as some massive obstacle than will hold back their businesses?

Everything is computerized, the form filling will be online which can be completed by automation. Once the automation program is working, minimal human work is needed.

With mobile data and tablets, the information and 'paperwork' are in the truckers hands in a small device and will come with QR codes. A quick scan of the QR code and away he goes to Europe.

Paperwork is not going to mean some trucker sitting in a cab rifling through reams of paper looking for a particular slip of paper while an exasperated custom officer looks on.

Britain could do very well indeed. Access to the Single Market tariff-free without the EU payments means more money in London.

The EU folded like a cheap tent.

Because it isn't in any way automated or easy.
It could very well be a trucker sifting through a ream of paper.

Even if it were minimal it is still additional cost that wasn't there before and that doesn't add any value.

MrMusician18

salonfire wrote: »

Why do people view the extra paperwork and form filling needed on the British side as some massive obstacle than will hold back their businesses?

Everything is computerized, the form filling will be online which can be completed by automation. Once the automation program is working, minimal human work is needed.

With mobile data and tablets, the information and 'paperwork' are in the truckers hands in a small device and will come with QR codes. A quick scan of the QR code and away he goes to Europe.

Paperwork is not going to mean some trucker sitting in a cab rifling through reams of paper looking for a particular slip of paper while an exasperated custom officer looks on.

Britain could do very well indeed. Access to the Single Market tariff-free without the EU payments means more money in London.

The EU folded like a cheap tent.

Where have I heard that line before?

I attempted to fill out the paperwork for shipping from China recently and it's not easy. I hade to give up and get a middleman to do it. Turned out to be a rather expensive endeavor. The paperwork even done electronically still has to be done for every consignment (a container could have 100 different consignments), errors and omissions will cause delays and the very fact it needs to be completed adds cost.

In any cases it isn't the tariffs, it's standards that's the real barrier. The UK will have to remain aligned to our standards to sell into it market or choose to diverge and suffer retaliatory tariffs.

So if they cannot really diverge, what was the point of this exercise again?

salonfire

Deleted User wrote: »

Because it isn't in any way automated or easy.
It could very well be a trucker sifting through a ream of paper.

Even if it were minimal it is still additional cost that wasn't there before and that doesn't add any value.

Not at the beginning, no.

But it will evolve to become more automated and easier.

Yes, more cost but a tiny fraction of cost hardly worth talking about. Paying a shipping clerk minimum wage to take care of the paperwork is not going to be insurmountable and will result in increased employment in clerks and customs officers. Yes, extra cost on the State, but ultimately salaries that remains in the UK rather than to the EU .

salonfire

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Where have I heard that line before?

I attempted to fill out the paperwork for shipping from China recently and it's not easy. I hade to give up and get a middleman to do it. Turned out to be a rather expensive endeavor. The paperwork even done electronically still has to be done for every consignment (a container could have 100 different consignments), errors and omissions will cause delays and the very fact it needs to be completed adds cost.

In any cases it isn't the tariffs, it's standards that's the real barrier. The UK will have to remain aligned to our standards to sell into it market or choose to diverge and suffer retaliatory tariffs.

So if they cannot really diverge, what was the point of this exercise again?

If someone showed you once how to do it, you'd be able to do it yourself thereafter.