Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

RobMc59

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/boris-johnson-brexit-deal-fishing-6868912

We had a few irexit types claim that Irish fishermen got screwed, but not only do they retain most their access, reviewed every 4 years (as is whole deal) it’s something that no other “sovereign” country like Canada or Japan with whom EU has tariff free deal has given up.

Like I said the alternative is zero access, this deal is an incredible win for Ireland and EU

Britain is unique as a trading partner with the EU,geographically it is part of Europe,is one of the EU's major markets and best of all from a British point of view has something the EU really wants access to.(fishing grounds which the UK retains control over long-term)
So comparing Britain,Canada and Japan as trading partners doesn't really work imo.

mrunsure

breezy1985 wrote: »

This is certainly not the experience I am having with my friends and family in the UK. No disinterest and definitely no sense of moving on or just getting on with it. The idea that we are "banging on" about makes me think that you are not much of a remainer if you are at all

Also my own experience of life in the UK is they are some of the most technocratic/rules based people I have ever met, certainly more than the Irish are

Certainly I won't forget about this. It has been forefront of my mind since the possibility of a referendum first started being discussed. I've had many sleepless nights and have been close to despair many times. As I said earlier, I've disowned England. I would dearly love to set fire to my British passport. I am so envious of the EU citizens on here.

Sam Russell

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I think that Rob might mean the nitrogen filled plastic ball that gives a can of Guinness Draught its head and body as exemplified by this wonderful 90s ad for John Smith's:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsiWQ4xm5-Q

As an aside, I remember this ad vividly, that it's from 1993 has completely thrown me!

I don't wish to prolong this O/T point further, but my 1990 Oxford dictionary has WIDGET as 'any gadget or device' - that is it. It was always used as a term to mean a non-existing product as a sample when discussing a economic idea or a mythical process. It was never invented - if someone claims it, it is plagiarism.

Guinness refer to their bit of plastic as a widget, but that is just lazy marketing. Just as removing it was lazy, and rejected by their loyal can drinkers.

Anyway - enough of widgets.

RobMc59

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Boris consistently went on about Canada++ and Australia deal and sovereignty and so on

Except they just signed over fishing rights which not only helps fishermen here it also puts yet another nail in coffin in irexit arguments.

We should try to seal this deal ASAP before British papers wake up to how boris gave away so much for so little

It’s a win win with one side being a bigger winner, which also throws a spanner into zero sum arguments

I don't know anything about irexit but reading the twitter posts of Tony connelly who many here seem to rate,he appears to say the UK retains a high level of control of it's own destiny and the deal is reviewed at regular relatively short intervals,a good outcome for all parties I'd say.

Strazdas

RobMc59 wrote: »

I don't know anything about irexit but reading the twitter posts of Tony connelly who many here seem to rate,he appears to say the UK retains a high level of control of it's own destiny and the deal is reviewed at regular relatively short intervals,a good outcome for all parties I'd say.

That goes without saying ; it has just left the EU, Single Market and Customs Union.

Whether the UK govt being 'in control of its own destiny' is any use to the ordinary citizen very much remains to be seen though. How would this improve their day to day lives in any tangible way? Britain was already independent.

murphaph

Strazdas wrote: »

That goes without saying ; it has just left the EU, Single Market and Customs Union.

Whether the UK govt being 'in control of its own destiny' is any use to the ordinary citizen very much remains to be seen though. How would this improve their day to day lives in any tangible way? Britain was already independent.

Exactly. North Korea is in charge of its destiny too.

breezy1985

RobMc59 wrote: »

I don't know anything about irexit but reading the twitter posts of Tony connelly who many here seem to rate,he appears to say the UK retains a high level of control of it's own destiny and the deal is reviewed at regular relatively short intervals,a good outcome for all parties I'd say.

It always had a high level of control of its own destiny.

Destiny is a big word. I'd say technically the UK had more control over theirs as part of the EU and in the period up until the end of the transition period. The trade deal doesn't have an article 50 that can basically reset international relations. Day-to-day, they have more control.

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Destiny is a big word. I'd say technically the UK had more control over theirs as part of the EU and in the period up until the end of the transition period. The trade deal doesn't have an article 50 that can basically reset international relations. Day-to-day, they have more control.

Imagine being the rule maker , chief rule opt outter and growing your economy more and faster than any time in living memory and still giving out.

But sure we all know that it's the sole benefit of tax avoiding tory donors. All ironically whom have put their business interests elsewhere.

Imagine thinking handing it all over to those lads and thinking that you've got control. Begs belief

SpacialNeeds

It would be better if they just stopped fishing for about three years and let the stocks replenish.

Choosehowevr.

SpacialNeeds wrote: »

It would be better if they just stopped fishing for about three years and let the stocks replenish.

Probably

Criminal what our supertrawlers were doing in Africa

robindch

listermint wrote: »

You don't set global standards with a market cap of 70 million and no real trade agreements. You take regs and you take them from the global standards setters the EU. Everyone follows the EU.

Golden Rule of Economics - them with the gold makes the rules.

In reality, it's the EU, the Chinese and the US who set world trading standards, with the EU out in front in terms of consumer and environmental protection, safety and so on - then the US, then China. Everybody else is simply playing follow-the-leader.

robindch

SpacialNeeds wrote: »

It would be better if they just stopped fishing for about three years and let the stocks replenish.

Better still if people stopped buying fish and leave the market economics play out.

joe40

Strazdas wrote: »

That goes without saying ; it has just left the EU, Single Market and Customs Union.

Whether the UK govt being 'in control of its own destiny' is any use to the ordinary citizen very much remains to be seen though. How would this improve their day to day lives in any tangible way? Britain was already independent.

As Kris Kristofferson said "freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose"

The British have sovereignty, but still have to follow EU rules.

yagan

robindch wrote: »

Golden Rule of Economics - them with the gold makes the rules.

In reality, it's the EU, the Chinese and the US who set world trading standards, with the EU out in front in terms of consumer and environmental protection, safety and so on - then the US, then China. Everybody else is simply playing follow-the-leader.

Those with the trade surplus call the tune, and in this case the UK dances to the EUs tune.

Widdensushi

SpacialNeeds wrote: »

It would be better if they just stopped fishing for about three years and let the stocks replenish.

Have you a scientific basis for this? Have you an alternative food source while this would be happening?

Choosehowevr.

Widdensushi wrote: »

Have you a scientific basis for this? Have you an alternative food source while this would be happening?

Meat and vegetables

Strazdas

Deleted User wrote: »

Destiny is a big word. I'd say technically the UK had more control over theirs as part of the EU and in the period up until the end of the transition period. The trade deal doesn't have an article 50 that can basically reset international relations. Day-to-day, they have more control.

A fully independent country trying to achieve independence seems an utter waste of time, money and resources.

Jizique

Any word on EHIC? They really wanted to keep that

lawred2

Strazdas wrote: »

A fully independent country trying to achieve independence seems an utter waste of time, money and resources.

I asked my wife's folks as they waffled about getting their independence back whether they thought Ireland was independent or not..

"Of course it is" was the response

Cue puzzlement when I queried the difference between Ireland and the UK in the EU.

Anyway, time to move on.

amacca

lawred2 wrote: »

I asked my wife's folks as they waffled about getting their independence back whether they through Ireland was independent or not..

"Of course it is" was the response

Que puzzlement when I queried the difference between Ireland and the UK in the EU.

Anyway, time to move on.

Never go full logic.

mrunsure

Jizique wrote: »

Any word on EHIC? They really wanted to keep that

Yes, that was one of the few bits of good news for regular British people

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44850972

The deal on the future relationship between the EU and the UK was announced on 24 December. It says that all EHIC cards issued before the end of 2020 will be valid until their expiry date.

After that, the UK will issue a new card. The UK government says the new card will be called the UK Global Health Insurance Card (GHIC), but there are no further details yet on how to obtain it.

Like EHIC, the new card will cover chronic or existing illnesses and routine maternity care as well as emergencies.

lawred2

mrunsure wrote: »

Yes, that was one of the few bits of good news for regular British people

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44850972

And will the EHIC be accepted in the UK?

mrunsure

lawred2 wrote: »

And will the EHIC be accepted in the UK?

Yes, see the summary as posted by the UK Government:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/948093/TCA_SUMMARY_PDF.pdf

117. On healthcare, where the UK or an EU Member State is responsible for the healthcare of an individual, they will be entitled to reciprocal healthcare cover. This includes certain categories of cross-border workers and state pensioners who retire to the UK or to the EU.

118. In addition, the Protocol will ensure necessary healthcare provisions – akin to those provided by the European Health Insurance Card (EHIC)
scheme – continue. This means individuals who are temporarily staying in another country, for example a UK national who is in an EU Member State for
a holiday, will have their necessary healthcare needs met for the period of their stay.

119. The Protocol also protects the ability of individuals to seek authorisation to receive planned medical treatment in the UK or the EU,
funded by their responsible State.

Strazdas

lawred2 wrote: »

I asked my wife's folks as they waffled about getting their independence back whether they thought Ireland was independent or not..

"Of course it is" was the response

Cue puzzlement when I queried the difference between Ireland and the UK in the EU.

Anyway, time to move on.

They're chasing some sort of sovereignty that won't make a blind bit of difference to their lives. Last time England was invaded was 1066!

BorneTobyWilde

Considering this is only 6 days away, how come you can't find anything official online as to what a business needs to do to prepare for it.

McGiver

mrunsure wrote:

As I mentioned a few weeks ago, I'm interested in moving to Ireland from England but it won't be for a few years yet because of my partner's job. This may seem a silly thing, but I'm worried that the problems with online shopping will put my partner off the idea. She subscribes to Amazon Prime and doesn't like shopping in physical shops. I'm also worried about how much it is going to cost. I've got most of my money within stock market investments that are sheltered from tax within ISAs. So I'd be paying a lot of tax on my investments if I moved to Ireland. Housing in Ireland is so expensive as well. So we would be massively worse off moving to Ireland. I'm prepared to pay the price but not sure my partner is. The alternative is to move to Scotland where she comes from where housing is cheap, it enjoys a favourable tax situation for investing and they can use UK online shopping.

Can't she use amazon.de (it's in English) or amazon.fr?
Amazon.co.uk including prime will continue to work in Ireland, I haven't seen evidence of the contrary. It might be a bit more expensive though as VAT and custom handling charges come to play, but it won't be massive increase.
I wouldn't base my life decisions and in what country to live based on online shopping platform options but each to its own...

The ISAs are a problem alright - Ireland doesn't have any sort of scheme like that AFAIK and Irish Capital Gains Tax is 33/40% which is a joke (one of the highest in the EU).

kowloon

Strazdas wrote: »

They're chasing some sort of sovereignty that won't make a blind bit of difference to their lives. Last time England was invaded was 1066!

There was that thing that happened once with the Dutch.

Choosehowevr.

England mostly 'did' the invading if memory serves

Sam Russell

GBP is slipping - the markets must have read the deal.

91.44 p = €1

All since 5 pm today. 1.5 p fall in a few hours.

Might be just be too many mince pies on top of too much turkey.