Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

Shelga

mrunsure wrote: »

Was that only in the news because there was no deal yet? Maybe the UK will be funding it now that there is a deal for the UK to continue in the scheme.

My understanding is that it’s happening anyway, even though there’s a deal, because the rest of the UK is losing their EHICs. And we are covering the cost of everyone in NI’s EHICs, not just Irish citizens.

Why is my tax paying for freebies for people from a different country?? Sorry if I’m not jumping for joy at the thought of paying for health insurance for Sammy Wilson and Arlene Foster.

mrunsure

Shelga wrote: »

because the rest of the UK is losing their EHICs.

But they (we) aren't.

rock22

Shelga wrote: »

My understanding is that it’s happening anyway, even though there’s a deal, because the rest of the UK is losing their EHICs. And we are covering the cost of everyone in NI’s EHICs, not just Irish citizens.

Why is my tax paying for freebies for people from a different country?? Sorry if I’m not jumping for joy at the thought of paying for health insurance for Sammy Wilson and Arlene Foster.

Because there are irish and entitled to Irish (and EU ) citizenship but are being taking outside the EU against their will ( voted against Brexit) because GB wants to leave.
Either you aspire to a united Ireland or not and all political parties in Ireland do

lawred2

Shelga wrote: »

My understanding is that it’s happening anyway, even though there’s a deal, because the rest of the UK is losing their EHICs. And we are covering the cost of everyone in NI’s EHICs, not just Irish citizens.

Why is my tax paying for freebies for people from a different country?? Sorry if I’m not jumping for joy at the thought of paying for health insurance for Sammy Wilson and Arlene Foster.

It's reciprocal.

Irish residents can receive care in the UK.

snailsong

I'm assuming that regulatory alignment extends to workers rights? I remember hearing Jacob Rees Moggs speaking, maybe last year. He said the first thing they'd get rid of was the 'anti-business' Working Hours Directive. Is this off the agenda now if they want their tariff free access?
He can't be happy.

Professor Moriarty

snailsong wrote: »

I'm assuming that regulatory alignment extends to workers rights? I remember hearing Jacob Rees Moggs speaking, maybe last year. He said the first thing they'd get rid of was the 'anti-business' Working Hours Directive. Is this off the agenda now if they want their tariff free access?
He can't be happy.

They can do that but the EU would immediately apply tariffs in response.

deathbomber

salonfire wrote: »

A United Ireland would be an utterly stupid idea that would send us back to the stone age. Sinn Fein would be given more power overnight to dismantle our justice system and cause multinationals to flee.

We have enough trouble already this year forming a three legged chair of a Government without adding the ragtag Northern parties and their nonsense to the mix.

The North should be be split off to an Independent micro state with support from Ireland and the UK much like the support given to micro nations around Australia and New Zealand.

Brexit offers the independent North more chance of being viable with entry in the UK and EU markets

Disagree, it would become a very attractive investment location and more than likely thrive, in particular US investment would be huge

yagan

joe40 wrote: »

Does anyone know the situation post Brexit with regards ROI students studying third level in NI or Wider UK.
I wonder what fees they will they be charged and will they be able to access UK student loans.

I know existing students are ok.

Irish citizens are still non foreign under UK law so I don't think we'll be affected by fees changes for the rest of the EU candidates.

However considering that UK qualifications will no longer have automatic recognition in the EU I'd be weary of that route. There's plenty of university options across the EU taught via english and nearly all are cheaper than English fees.

mrunsure

yagan wrote: »

However considering that UK qualifications will no longer have automatic recognition in the EU I'd be weary of that route. There's plenty of university options across the EU taught via english and nearly all are cheaper than English fees.

Are qualifications from outside the EU considered less valid in practice? If an Irish person applies for a job in Dublin with a degree from Cambridge or Stanford will that be less useful than a degree from Maastricht?

mrunsure

mrunsure wrote: »

Are qualifications from outside the EU considered less valid in practice? If an Irish person applies for a job in Dublin with a degree from Cambridge or Stanford will that be less useful than a degree from Maastricht?

My understanding is that qualifications is more about things like being a chartered engineer or teacher or something. You may not be allowed to the work without having the EU certification.

An Irish friend of mine is currently doing her teaching thing online in Scotland and I'm wondering how that will work out for her.

embraer170

The 1256 pages of the agreement:
https://ec.europa.eu/transparency/regdoc/rep/1/2020/EN/COM-2020-857-F1-EN-ANNEX-1-PART-1.PDF

looksee

If you look for a teaching job in Ireland your degree has to be validated - degrees from some Universities have already been recognised by the Irish Teaching authority, but others you have to go looking for detailed transcripts (everything the course covered) etc and it will be examined and may or may not be accepted. Other situations depend on the job - some employers might be happy to accept a degree, while professional associations or government agencies will be more demanding.

Information about jobs with the HSE (equivalent of the NHS) are here https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/jobs/

fash

. what outside observers think of the deal...

Sam Russell

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

If Ireland was to switch to Left Hand Drive cars and roads we'd have a huge array of second hand vehicles to choose from in Europe

It would be close to impossible for us to change to LHD.

First off, just the cost of moving all the road signs from one side of the road to the other - it would be a massive cost and cause untold disruption. Now if we had gone LHD as an island in 1973 when we joined the EEC and before we built all those motorways and new wide roads, it might have been a good idea - but we know that was not an option then. Now roads are designed to suit the direction of travel so how is the road to behave when we reverse the direction of travel - will the design work?

Secondly, the state has a lot of legacy RHD cars that have a life of a decade left in them, so what happens to them? I think they will lose value so fast that it will bring hardship to bangerville.

Third, what about the drivers - the most affected would be the old duffers that never took a driving lesson or passed a driving test. Then there are those who never really learnt to drive properly, and stopped learning once they scraped through on their umpteenth attempt. Then there are the drivers who think that the rules do not apply to them, and expect every other driver to accommodate their selfish driving.

No, we are stuck with RHD. Sweden changed but that was a long time ago, and most of their stock of cars were LHD anyway.

Hermy

embraer170 wrote: »

The 1256 pages of the agreement:
https://ec.europa.eu/transparency/regdoc/rep/1/2020/EN/COM-2020-857-F1-EN-ANNEX-1-PART-1.PDF

But we were promised 2,000 pages!!!:eek:

In all seriousness though, thanks one and all for a very informed and informative debate these past four years - it's been an education.

Hopefully 2021 will have less Trump, less Brexit, less Covid and a lot more living.

In the meantime I'm sure the debate will roll on and I look forward to it.

Cheers

RobMc59

The UK leapfrogs India back into fifth place in the world economies chart,according to this link.
Captain Tom may be right ,Tomorrow will be a good day.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9088577/Britain-worlds-fifth-largest-economy-overtaking-India-despite-coronavirus-recession.html

Sam Russell

RobMc59 wrote: »

The UK leapfrogs India back into fifth place in the world economies chart,according to this link.
Captain Tom may be right ,Tomorrow will be a good day.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9088577/Britain-worlds-fifth-largest-economy-overtaking-India-despite-coronavirus-recession.html

The article quotes the source of those figures, and reading the source shows it is a rather sketchy forecast based on old data. No mention of Brexit anywhere in the source - it is solely considering Covid from March 2020.

I have never heard of the source, and would discount anything in the quoted rag.

salonfire

BonnieSituation wrote: »

In the event of a referendum, your only job is to vote no.

The irony.

On the 13th iteration of a thread where a country shot itself in the foot as a result of an ideological referendum, we should be talking about having a referendum which will be campaigned on ideology and if passed will set us back years with garda killer apologists being Kingmaker. US multinationals would love that.

Sam Russell

salonfire wrote: »

The irony.

On the 13th iteration of a thread where a country shot itself in the foot as a result of an ideological referendum, we should be talking about having a referendum which will be campaigned on ideology and if passed will set us back years with garda killer apologists being Kingmaker. US multinationals would love that.

The only way to conduct a referendum to unite the island of Ireland is if we are already united in spirit - well at least the less rabid of both sides.

If the moderates of both sides cannot unite, there is no hope.

I think the more the Irish Gov holds out the hand of friendship, the more likely that hand will be responded to - eventually.

Hermy

salonfire wrote: »

The irony.

On the 13th iteration of a thread where a country shot itself in the foot as a result of an ideological referendum, we should be talking about having a referendum which will be campaigned on ideology and if passed will set us back years with garda killer apologists being Kingmaker. US multinationals would love that.

Are you saying we shouldn't be talking about it?

Hasn't that been at the heart of so much that is wrong with Brexit - the inability or unwillingness of too many to talk about the issue?

yagan

mrunsure wrote: »

Are qualifications from outside the EU considered less valid in practice? If an Irish person applies for a job in Dublin with a degree from Cambridge or Stanford will that be less useful than a degree from Maastricht?

For many professions it would mean conversion exams that non EU professionals have to undergo to qualify to work in the EU.

A straightforward process for experienced people but for new graduates from the UK looking for their first job in the EU they'll be competing against the world.

That's a major disincentive for studying in the UK if there's other EU options available.

mrunsure

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have never heard of the source, and would discount anything in the quoted rag.

I personally never click on those links, as each click gives makes them money.

schmoo2k

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I assume that reasonable media outlets and politicians have decided that in order to ensure that the hardliners don't kick off, they will talk up the deal instead of pointing out its flaws. They realise that there is no more time or opportunity for anything else so they are going to get behind this deal or indeed any deal, as preferable to no deal.

The hardliners are adamant that its a bad deal because the BBC is saying its good (when in reality any deal is "good" compared to no deal).

mrunsure

yagan wrote: »

For many professions it would mean conversion exams that non EU professionals have to undergo to qualify to work in the EU.

A straightforward process for experienced people but for new graduates from the UK looking for their first job in the EU they'll be competing against the world.

That's a major disincentive for studying in the UK if there's other EU options available.

Can British students study in Ireland without paying non-EU international fees from 2021? If so, that seems the easiest option for most British students. Crazy that they still mostly studied in the UK while the UK was in the EU even though tuition fees are so much more expensive than elsewhere, and now not even as useful as an EU degree.

yagan

mrunsure wrote: »

Can British students study in Ireland without paying non-EU international fees from 2021? If so, that seems the easiest option for most British students. Crazy that they still mostly studied in the UK while the UK was in the EU even though tuition fees are so much more expensive than elsewhere, and now not even as useful as an EU degree.

I'm not an expert on this but years ago when we were living outside the EU we looked into how much fees would cost if we were to return for education. I think the rule is if you're not resident in the EU for more than three of the previous five years then you'll be charged international fees.

We were thinking of returning anyway but we brought forward our return to ensure we'd qualify for EU domestic fees.

So if to qualify for Irish domestic fees a UK applicant would have to be legally resident at least three years in Ireland or EU. I assume they'd still qualify for two years after January 1st, but after that I guess it's international fees. That's my assumption but I could be way off.

schmoo2k

Not sure why everyone is latching onto a UK Win or an EU Win - the fact is that it is ultimately a loss for both the EU and the UK.

The fact that there was a last minute deal means that loss may not be as bad (initially), but an overall loss it still is.

mrunsure

Are there any EU universities with affordable tuition fees for non-EU students (say less than 10000 euros a year)? I remember German universities were free for everyone in the world but I think that stopped recently. That would be a way for British students to get back into the EU.

yagan

mrunsure wrote: »

Are there any EU universities with affordable tuition fees for non-EU students (say less than 10000 euros a year)? I remember German universities were free for everyone in the world but I think that stopped recently. That would be a way for British students to get back into the EU.

This link ( https://www.eunicas.ie/ ) shows courses taught through the English language throughout the EU, I think some universities display both domestic EU and international fees.

Some universities may provide scholarships for exceptional international students but I doubt British students will get any special treatment as then all international students could sue for a discount.

tanko

I know it doesn't matter now but looking back did Labour make a big mistake not voting for Teresa Mays deal. Did her deal keep the EU in the single market and customs union?
Would it have been a softer Brexit and a better deal than what they're going to accept now.
Keir Stamer is saying that Johnsons deal is better than no deal, surely Mays deal was better again.

mrunsure

British parents should be moving to Ireland ASAP if they think their child might be going to university to satisfy the residency requirements, otherwise they are harming their child's future.