Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

mrunsure

tanko wrote: »

I know it doesn't matter now but looking back did Labour make a big mistake not voting for Teresa Mays deal. Did her deal keep the EU in the single market and customs union?

Single market was never acceptable to May because it would go against her "red line" on free movement.

Padre_Pio

Hermy wrote: »

But we were promised 2,000 pages!!!:eek:

In all seriousness though, thanks one and all for a very informed and informative debate these past four years - it's been an education.

Hopefully 2021 will have less Trump, less Brexit, less Covid and a lot more living.

In the meantime I'm sure the debate will roll on and I look forward to it.

Cheers

Boris said on Christmas Eve that there were 500 pages. Maybe he's missing half the deal. Maybe they printed in a smaller font

schmoo2k

mrunsure wrote: »

British parents should be moving to Ireland ASAP if they think their child might be going to university to satisfy the residency requirements, otherwise they are harming their child's future.

Why would it be harming their child's future?

mrunsure

schmoo2k wrote: »

Why would it be harming their child's future?

It has been stated earlier that it is inadvisable to get a degree from a UK university because the qualification may not be recognised in the EU.

schmoo2k

mrunsure wrote: »

Are qualifications from outside the EU considered less valid in practice? If an Irish person applies for a job in Dublin with a degree from Cambridge or Stanford will that be less useful than a degree from Maastricht?

Depends on the degree in question I would have thought. Plus a lot of the STEM degrees have separate accreditations anyway.

schmoo2k

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Boris said on Christmas Eve that there were 500 pages. Maybe he's missing half the deal. Maybe they printed in a smaller font

I think the deal is 500 pages with 1500 pages of errata and attachments?

BorneTobyWilde

Can an Irish Hauler still deliver a load to the UK, and then work in the UK for a week, doing multiple loads, and then return to Ireland wit a load also.
Is there special rules for the rights of Irish people to still work and live in UK.

mrunsure

mrunsure wrote: »

It has been stated earlier that it is inadvisable to get a degree from a UK university because the qualification may not be recognised in the EU.

But it's all relative.
A degree from a UK uni would be fine for a career in the UK. Moving from the UK incase a child might want a career in the EU is a bit much, if the child wants that just send them to an EU uni and pay the appropriate fees as a non EU student.

I have been wondering about the qualifications thing myself. I trained as an accountant in the UK and have a UK qualification. I don't think it will impact me greatly however as I don't work in a regulated area.

I was trying to imagine areas where it would cause trouble and an example I came up with was in banking.
Imagine a UK bank or branch trying to get a licence for something or other in the EU and having a long list of requirements, including for example an internal audit department with qualified auditors. Auditors are definitely regulated, would the EU accept a UK audit qualification automatically or might they require someone with an EU audit qualification, and by extension EU oversight.

schmoo2k

mrunsure wrote: »

It has been stated earlier that it is inadvisable to get a degree from a UK university because the qualification may not be recognised in the EU.

Then they will end up with a degree not recognised in the UK?

BorneTobyWilde

This deal reads like Eurexit than Brexit . EU has left UK, not the other way around.

The Raging Bile Duct

schmoo2k wrote: »

Then they will end up with a degree not recognised in the UK?

For the vast majority of UK graduates they'll just end up working in the UK so it's not going to make any difference to them.

schmoo2k

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

For the vast majority of UK graduates they'll just end up working in the UK so it's not going to make any difference to them.

Agree - I was responding to the post saying that any UK parent not relocating to Ireland will be harming their childs future...

Leonard Hofstadter

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

For the vast majority of UK graduates they'll just end up working in the UK so it's not going to make any difference to them.

Yup and in most professional jobs once you're out of college after 2-3 years it's what you've done in your career since leaving college that matters.

yagan

mrunsure wrote: »

It has been stated earlier that it is inadvisable to get a degree from a UK university because the qualification may not be recognised in the EU.

If they study something in the UK that has international demand then the world will be their oyster.

If both parents envisage retiring in the EU in the long run without hassle and transferring to jobs in Ireland isn't a hassle then overall that move would be optimal for their kids future options.

An Ciarraioch

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Can an Irish Hauler still deliver a load to the UK, and then work in the UK for a week, doing multiple loads, and then return to Ireland wit a load also.
Is there special rules for the rights of Irish people to still work and live in UK.

Irish people in the UK are still protected by the Common Travel Area, which is a legal document now.

yagan

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Can an Irish Hauler still deliver a load to the UK, and then work in the UK for a week, doing multiple loads, and then return to Ireland wit a load also.
Is there special rules for the rights of Irish people to still work and live in UK.

I don't think there's been any insistence on Irish license holders in Britain to convert, so as long as the insurers cover it then there's probably no change.

It's actually a fantastic opportunity for Greek and Irish hauliers to team up and form a pan EU network.

yagan

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Irish people in the UK are still protected by the Common Travel Area, which is a legal document now.

It's more the 1949 Act really. The CTA was actually in the Irish sea at that time and for a few years after.

Unlikely to see UK degrees lose value after Brexit.

listermint

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Unlikely to see UK degrees lose value after Brexit.

Highly likely. The universities wont be funded to the same levels as before and there has been an exodus of EU nationals from them . That means the top teaching staff are gone back to the continent.

And obviously the qualifications being not recognised is another.

It's death by a thousand cuts.

An Ciarraioch

Deleted User wrote: »

Unlikely to see UK degrees lose value after Brexit.

Especially when they will presumably remain in the Bologna Process:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bologna_Process

AutoTuning

There are so many practicalities that will ultimately depend on interpretation of the agreement and how UK and European Union and individual countries' legal systems interpret things.

It'll still be a very uncertain few months and potentially even for a few years until a lot of things are ironed out. Not all of it can be done by simple legislation either. Some will require court cases or legal interpretations to set precedent.

Professor Moriarty

listermint wrote: »

Highly likely. The universities wont be funded to the same levels as before and there has been an exodus of EU nationals from them . That means the top teaching staff are gone back to the continent.

And obviously the qualifications being not recognised is another.

It's death by a thousand cuts.

Expect to see Irish universities swamped with Erasmus applications from now onwards.

salonfire

There's nothing in this deal to prevent other, less services focused countries following the UK out the door.

Free travel and free export to the EU to continue.

The beginning of the break up of the EU.

ancapailldorcha

salonfire wrote: »

There's nothing in this deal to prevent other, less services focused countries following the UK out the door.

Free travel and free export to the EU to continue.

The beginning of the break up of the EU.

Why would an EU-UK deal ever prevent anyone else leaving the EU? Other countries aren't leaving the EU because Brexit has been such an abject and unnecessary disaster wrought upon a country by its own self-serving political class and this is a commensurately abysmal result.

atilladehun

So am I right in saying UK gained in conceptually tangible areas such as trade agreements but completely lost out on what matters in the financial services sector. Joe public doesn't really understand it but in reality drives the economy?

Boris does what Boris does, pushes the horror down the road to survive another day.

yagan

atilladehun wrote: »

So am I right in saying UK gained in conceptually tangible areas such as trade agreements but completely lost out on what matters in the financial services sector. Joe public doesn't really understand it but in reality drives the economy?

Boris does what Boris does, pushes the horror down the road to survive another day.

Yip, services are 80% of the UK economy and there's no deal on them. The EU can pick and choose what it likes to favour itself.

Plus the customs checks on those goods can suspend trade at any moment and there's zero the UK could do about it. The Brexiters have made the UK an EU vassal state.

atilladehun

deathbomber wrote: »

Disagree, it would become a very attractive investment location and more than likely thrive, in particular US investment would be huge

Don't see how this makes sense. Ireland is already ridiculously attractive to multinationals AND with the presence of a UK enclave on the island has the only special agreement with the UK in the world.

Keeping the status quo is best of both worlds. Creating a 32 county Ireland loses one of the most unique economic benefits any country has in the world.

Only speaking from a trade agreements point of view. Obviously there's a billion things to discuss regarding 32 counties.

If the NI government took their noses out of Westminsters rear end they really could create an economic hotspot.

An Claidheamh

atilladehun wrote: »

Don't see how this makes sense. Ireland is already ridiculously attractive to multinationals AND with the presence of a UK enclave on the island has the only special agreement with the UK in the world.

There is no benefit, nor ever was, of having a British enclave on the island, except for the funeral business.

I agree though, NI is badly run - DUP are all hate, the COVID crisis has shown their incompetence, even FFG cannot deny it is simply dangerous for the Republic not to be all one island

looksee

salonfire wrote: »

There's nothing in this deal to prevent other, less services focused countries following the UK out the door.

Free travel and free export to the EU to continue.

The beginning of the break up of the EU.

Yes, you said. And there is no reason to suppose your wishful thinking will be brought to fruition by repeating yourself.

yagan

atilladehun wrote: »

Keeping the status quo is best of both worlds. Creating a 32 county Ireland loses one of the most unique economic benefits any country has in the world.

NI isn't a backdoor into the UK. Plus it's not very attractive for multinationals if time spent there doesn't count towards EU citizenship for its staff.

The best deal for NI is expiration.