Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

yagan

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Yeah saw that get mentioned a few times. I’m not too sure what bearing it has on Brexit though. The U.K. still don’t leave until the 31st December. Germany who are the biggest economy in the EU have 20% of children at risk of poverty, and they are still in the EU???

Got a link for your claim?

I know you know Unicef now has to feed the children London won't.

HalfAndHalf

yagan wrote: »

Got a link for your claim?

I know you know Unicef now has to feed the children London won't.

Here - https://www.dw.com/en/1-in-5-children-in-germany-grow-up-in-poverty/a-54260165

Although you could have easily found this yourself.

Yes we all saw UNICEF say they’ve spent £25k on food, can you provide a link that says the U.K. refuse to feed children? Thanks.

You still haven’t explained what this has to do with Brexit either!

yagan

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Here - https://www.dw.com/en/1-in-5-children-in-germany-grow-up-in-poverty/a-54260165

Although you could have easily found this yourself.

Yes we all saw UNICEF say they’ve spent £25k on food, can you provide a link that says the U.K. refuse to feed children? Thanks.

You still haven’t explained what this has to do with Brexit either!

From your link

Around two-thirds of children living in poverty in Germany experience it longterm, the report said. Concrete effects of poverty in Germany include not owning a car or having electronic devices in the house, and doing without vacations and activities like going to the movie theater.

I'm talking about children going hungry in the UK and you think that's the same as not going to the movies!

An Ciarraioch

The new duty free regime for travel between Ireland and GB has been confirmed:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/1228/1186681-brexit/

Lumen

yagan wrote: »

From your link


I'm talking about children going hungry in the UK and you think that's the same as not going to the movies!

Indeed. I posted some stuff about poverty (measure of inequality) vs material deprivation (food, heat, clothing) about six hundred pages ago, but on either measure the UK does quite badly.

HalfAndHalf

yagan wrote: »

From your link


I'm talking about children going hungry in the UK and you think that's the same as not going to the movies!

You think poverty is not going to the movies. Wow!

Here, this is the last link I’m going to find for you - https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/04/hung-a04.html

Please educate yourself next time. Thanks.

You STILL can’t answer what this has to do with Brexit. I’m beginning to think you don’t know!

yagan

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

You think poverty is not going to the movies. Wow!

Here, this is the last link I’m going to find for you - https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/04/hung-a04.html

Please educate yourself next time. Thanks.

You STILL can’t answer what this has to do with Brexit. I’m beginning to think you don’t know!

I quoted the link you gave me which defined poverty in Germany as not being able to go to the cinema.

I'm talking about Unicef having to find British children.

Tell me how

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Here - https://www.dw.com/en/1-in-5-children-in-germany-grow-up-in-poverty/a-54260165

Although you could have easily found this yourself.

Yes we all saw UNICEF say they’ve spent £25k on food, can you provide a link that says the U.K. refuse to feed children? Thanks.

You still haven’t explained what this has to do with Brexit either!

You might have missed the efforts Marcus Rashford went to this year to get the UK to feed children who were going hungry.

School meals: Boris Johnson refuses to move on school meal vouchers

HalfAndHalf

Tell me how wrote: »

You might have missed the efforts Marcus Rashford went to this year to get the UK to feed children who were going hungry.

School meals: Boris Johnson refuses to move on school meal vouchers

Again!! What has this got to do with Brexit?!?!?!?

And why should governments feed peoples kids during school holidays? Or are we feeding the ‘parents have no responsibility’ rhetoric?

If people have found themselves on benefits and child support etc. As we all know, the U.K. has one of the more generous benefits systems, people make a living out of it, so my question is, what is that money being spent on if it’s not on something as cheap as a kg of pasta and some tinned tomatoes at minimum......for their own children fgs!

I’m pretty sure there have been school holidays before 2020.

A quick Google of food bank usage shows that again, this is not a Brexit problem so why harp on about it here?

https://www.google.com/search?q=highest+food+bank+use+countries&rlz=1CDGOYI_enGB780GB780&oq=highest+food+bank+use+countries&aqs=chrome..69i57.5205j1j7&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

yagan

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

Again!! What has this got to do with Brexit?!?!?!?

And why should governments feed peoples kids during school holidays? Or are we feeding the ‘parents have no responsibility’ rhetoric?

If people have found themselves on benefits and child support etc. As we all know, the U.K. has one of the more generous benefits systems, people make a living out of it, so my question is, what is that money being spent on if it’s not on something as cheap as a kg of pasta and some tinned tomatoes at minimum......for their own children fgs!

I’m pretty sure there have been school holidays before 2020.

A quick Google of food bank usage shows that again, this is not a Brexit problem so why harp on about it here?

https://www.google.com/search?q=highest+food+bank+use+countries&rlz=1CDGOYI_enGB780GB780&oq=highest+food+bank+use+countries&aqs=chrome..69i57.5205j1j7&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

How is Brexit going to reduce reliance on international humanitarian agencies to feed British children?

HalfAndHalf

yagan wrote: »

How is Brexit going to reduce reliance on international humanitarian agencies to feed British children?

You’re right! How is a country with an annual GDP of $2.6 trillion going to find £25k for some food.

I’m going to leave hat there now before I get dragged down to your level! Ye’ve no answers, just the same 1 point. Thanks, good luck.

peter kern

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

You think poverty is not going to the movies. Wow!

Here, this is the last link I’m going to find for you - https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/04/04/hung-a04.html

Please educate yourself next time. Thanks.

You STILL can’t answer what this has to do with Brexit. I’m beginning to think you don’t know!

https://www.jrf.org.uk/sites/default/files/jrf/files-research/briefing_how_could_brexit_affect_poverty_in_the_uk_0.pdf

you could read this.

Leroy42

The point about UNICEF or Rashford or food banks is not that the UK can't afford it, it that they chose not to.

And there are examples of the real issue, that the problems that normal UK voters have with the UK have nothing to do with the EU and will not be solved by Brexit.

Brexit was the result of having to find an enemy to blame, to avoid having to face the consequences.

I have yet to hear one thing that will improve with Brexit, only negatives. What will be better for Northern England? Will Scottish calls for independence be reduced? Will NI feel better about the Union?

Workers rights, living wage, inequalities, Windrush, Grenfell etc. None of these, and so much more, are either than fault of the EU or will be resolved because of Brexit.

And that is the real issue I have with Brexit. It will fail to deal with the very real issues that voters have and leave people feeling more desperate than before.

Detritus70

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

And you’re asking me for that answer? Based on me saying that nobody can know if the U.K. will do worse or better moving forwards?

Well, to interject into this conversation, personally I think Brexit has erected barriers, both for trade and investment.
It has made it harder for Brits to work in Europe and vice versa.
If business does pick up in the UK, it will be despite, not because Brexit.
My personal view is, if you put more baggage into a car, it be slower. You can put a bigger engine in it and be as fast again as before, but not as fast as you could have gone.
That's my simplistic view on it.

HalfAndHalf

Leroy42 wrote: »

The point about UNICEF or Rashford or food banks is not that the UK can't afford it, it that they chose not to.

And there are examples of the real issue, that the problems that normal UK voters have with the UK have nothing to do with the EU and will not be solved by Brexit.

Brexit was the result of having to find an enemy to blame, to avoid having to face the consequences.

I have yet to hear one thing that will improve with Brexit, only negatives. What will be better for Northern England? Will Scottish calls for independence be reduced? Will NI feel better about the Union?

Workers rights, living wage, inequalities, Windrush, Grenfell etc. None of these, and so much more, are either than fault of the EU or will be resolved because of Brexit.

And that is the real issue I have with Brexit. It will fail to deal with the very real issues that voters have and leave people feeling more desperate than before.

Thanks. Agree with a lot of what you’ve said, and you’re absolutely right that more than half that voted believe that their lack of affluence was a direct cause of paying 350 million a week to ‘Brussels’ which would miracualously find its way to the NHS.

These people have never understood how the EU works and the benefits of giving that money over and receiving it back with conditions it is actually spent where it matters to them. If I’m honest I have to try very hard to feel for those people, I’m probably wrong but I feel that these are people who are literally unable to help themselves, sure they can’t even be bothered to educate themselves about the EU and when it came to the referendum they were fully prepared to believe whatever they we told so it could continue to not be there fault!

johnnyskeleton

Mod note:

The topic is Brexit, unless I am very much mistaken. The last page or so, facinating as it is on a philosophical level, isnt really about Brexit.

If posters feel something is off topic, please report it and then, and this is the important bit, do not reply on thread saying that its off topic.

Capt'n Midnight

SNP will be voting against Brexit Bill

Johnson has an effective majority of 100 so it shouldn't affect the result.

Unless there's an ERG rebellion, but that wouldn't be an issue because Labour would come to their rescue.

HalfAndHalf

Detritus70 wrote: »

Well, to interject into this conversation, personally I think Brexit has erected barriers, both for trade and investment.
It has made it harder for Brits to work in Europe and vice versa.
If business does pick up in the UK, it will be despite, not because Brexit.
My personal view is, if you put more baggage into a car, it be slower. You can put a bigger engine in it and be as fast again as before, but not as fast as you could have gone.
That's my simplistic view on it.

Yep totally agree, the EU and U.K. will never work the same way again as it has. Will this impact new deals with other areas, such as RCEP, will the legalities of the new deal impact what the U.K. can negotiate if it were in a position to join that bloc?

I love that analogy, I’m going to ‘borrow’ that. :-)

mrunsure

I wonder why I haven't heard about the new process for VAT for goods entering the UK? This retailer will no longer ship to the UK as a result:

https://www.dutchbikebits.com/shipping

Unfortunately, we will not be able to send parcels to the UK from mid December 2020 onward. Quite apart from uncertainty surrounding the shipping cost, taxation etc. after that time, there is also a problem caused by the British government deciding to impose a unique taxation regime which will require every company in the world in every country in the world outside the UK which exports to the UK to apply and collect British taxes on behalf of the British government. For providing this service they intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK. Clearly this is ludicrous for one country, but imagine if every country in the world had the same idea. If every country decided to behave in the same way then we would have to pay 195 fees every year, keep up with the changes in taxation law for 195 different countries, keep accounts on behalf of 195 different countries and submit payments to 195 tax offices in 195 different countries, and jump through whatever hoops were required to prove that we were doing all of this honestly and without any error.

Therefore from mid December 2020 onward we ship to every country in the world... except the UK.

Any trade deal with the Chinese empire will only be negotiated on Chinese terms, and Chinese terms only.
In other words the Chinese will dictate the terms and all other countries agree or - no deal.
China has the dominant position to do this now, the same will be true of any future EU - China Deal when the present deal is up for renewal.

A Dub in Glasgo

Brexit is finally hitting home in our household, my wife wants to order a pair of Reiker boots but there is little choice on the UK websites so went to other websites across Europe and a lot of them have removed the UK from the shipping list

moon2

Meanwhile, International Trade Secretary Liz Truss said she expects to sign a continuity trade agreement with Turkey this week, a move that was not possible until the deal with the EU was struck because Ankara is in a customs union with the bloc.

https://www.thejournal.ie/brexit-cabinet-eu-ambassadors-deal-5311821-Dec2020/

The UK has yet again shown how it is no longer bound by EU treaties and rules... By signing a continuation treaty with Turkey which it could only sign *after* it signed some form of FTA with the EU.

I'm pretty curious about what'll happen when the continuation agreements expire. What space is there for the UK to negotiate meaningfully better terms with any country in a similar position to Turkey? If maintaining the status quo is such a win, I'm pretty interested in seeing what the first actual negotiation between the UK and other countries results in.

Edit: another way to read this would be that if the UK renege on their agreement with the EU, they will force Turkey to choose between trading with the EU or trading with the UK. I'd hazard a guess Turkey would continue trading with the significantly larger market were this to happen.

The Raging Bile Duct

mrunsure wrote: »

I wonder why I haven't heard about the new process for VAT for goods entering the UK? This retailer will no longer ship to the UK as a result:

https://www.dutchbikebits.com/shipping

I first saw this being brought up a couple of months ago by William Shatner of all people.

An Ciarraioch

Deleted User wrote: »

Any trade deal with the Chinese empire will only be negotiated on Chinese terms, and Chinese terms only.
In other words the Chinese will dictate the terms and all other countries agree or - no deal.
China has the dominant position to do this now, the same will be true of any future EU - China Deal when the present deal is up for renewal.

A rather timely post, given the expected ratification of the EU-China investment agreement this week - personally, I'd prefer prioritisation of economic ties with India, Japan and the US unless and until human rights concerns are resolved:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-china-investment/eu-china-investment-deal-likely-this-week-senior-eu-official-idUKKBN29217J

breezy1985

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

A rather timely post, given the expected ratification of the EU-China investment agreement this week - personally, I'd prefer prioritisation of economic ties with India, Japan and the US unless and until human rights concerns are resolved:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-china-investment/eu-china-investment-deal-likely-this-week-senior-eu-official-idUKKBN29217J

Not to defend China but US foreign policy has killed plenty of innocents in my life and how India treats its "lower castes" and women is sick and are definitely human rights concerns

HalfAndHalf

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

A rather timely post, given the expected ratification of the EU-China investment agreement this week - personally, I'd prefer prioritisation of economic ties with India, Japan and the US unless and until human rights concerns are resolved:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-china-investment/eu-china-investment-deal-likely-this-week-senior-eu-official-idUKKBN29217J

How do we think China took it with the level playing field for working conditions etc? :-)

Strazdas

mrunsure wrote: »

I wonder why I haven't heard about the new process for VAT for goods entering the UK? This retailer will no longer ship to the UK as a result:

https://www.dutchbikebits.com/shipping

Very good and detailed explanation from the company as to why they are stopping shipping.

An Ciarraioch

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

How do we think a China took it with the level playing field for working conditions etc? :-)

For one thing, this is many rungs below a Free Trade Agreement, more rules about foreign ownership and market access.

Padre_Pio

HalfAndHalf wrote: »

How do we think China took it with the level playing field for working conditions etc? :-)

Are those conditions in their trade deal?

An Ciarraioch

The 11 NI MPs who take their seats will all vote against the deal:

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1343591192722878469