Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

johnnyskeleton

I guess Brexit is finally over. Perhaps its time for a new thread on EU-UK relations. If there is any interest in such things.

Harry Palmr

Sure you might as well, there'll be plenty of stuff linked this moment for years to come.

paul71

Seasoft wrote: »

It's 23:00

U.K. Bye-bye

Yeap, only ourselves and Portugal on GMT now.

FrancieBrady

Slán agus beannacht.

Harry Palmr

paul71 wrote: »

Yeap, only ourselves and Portugal on GMT now.

So this is when the French force us to an hour forward

Dr Cockhound

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Slán agus beannacht.

Thank you Francie. May we all go well into whatever 2021 brings our way.

paul71

Harry Palmr wrote: »

So this is when the French force us to an hour forward

Nope unlike the UK we do actually know what the EU is about we are sovereign, we can choose to back to the old Irish time if we want and go back a half hour from GMT. ;)

yagan

It's a weird emotion, to be sitting on a couch indoors on new years because of a pandemic thinking back on British army rifles aimed at me at the old border and watching big ben mark a border retreat.

While the covid nightmare is raging it feels like another nightmare is ending.

FrancieBrady

Happy New year to the contributors here too. Don't think I missed a post...incredibly educational.

Capt'n Midnight

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I guess Brexit is finally over. Perhaps its time for a new thread on EU-UK relations. If there is any interest in such things.

Brexit isn't over. The UK won't be implementing full import controls till the middle of the year.

And the ink's barely dry.

And there are lots of committees to setup and minutia to unravel.

And all the Overseas Territories to try for deals.

looksee

I love the final irony - the UK left on EU time, control or what!

I wish them well, I have family there and would hope daily life will not be too messed up.

Seasoft

Spotted in the small ads:
"One flagpole for sale. One previous owner. Genuine reason for selling."
Seller is a U van der Leyen.

Jizique

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

I made mistake putting on bbc news, brexiteer after brexiteer ranting with usual lies and delusions, so tiring

Awful way to end the year; avoided all bbc news today

Valhallapt

yagan wrote: »

Have you ever arrived from a British airport into an Irish airport? You have to present ID.

Also in recent years arriving into Dublin and Rosslaire has included ID checks.

I've never seen ID checks on the British side except when arriving from another EU country.

Britain has pulled the CTA back to the Irish Sea before so its pliable.

Yea lots of times from lots of different airports. I always thought It was more so a structural thing that the airport was designed to have a single entry / exit point. Everyone, even domestic passengers get their passport checked.

Usually no checks on the British side, save for the occasional operational reason you get chucked into the general passport queue.

Never been checked on the ferry either side, last time I was on the ferry was February.

I would love Ireland to be in schengen, to me it makes far more sense than being part of the cta.

Irish Praetorian

Jizique wrote: »

Awful way to end the year; avoided all bbc news today

Don't want to as much as peek at Brexiteer-twitter (or Brexitwitter) until tomorrow, I can just sense the nationalism overflowing.

ancapailldorcha

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I guess Brexit is finally over. Perhaps its time for a new thread on EU-UK relations. If there is any interest in such things.

I think it's only really beginning to be honest. We've years ahead where the British and the EU are going to have to define their relationship as the economic and geographical forces push London towards Brussels and we wait for the government to realise that close alignment is always going to be necessary because of those forces.

ElJeffe

Well fair play to them. They said they'd leave and they have. I wish them well once it's not at our expense.

BorneTobyWilde

And so it begins

' wheres your fcking paperwork !! ''

https://twitter.com/ladyjaggar/status/1344798305679769601

reslfj

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I guess Brexit is finally over. Perhaps its time for a new thread on EU-UK relations. If there is any interest in such things.

Brexit will never* be over.

The first many months expect many 'oops' and 'this cant be true (but likely is)'

Then some success stories of some one outsmarting the system and very many more about 'this must change' as in particular smaller companies are hid hard by the many new NTBs. The auto industry will survive for some years on fossil engines , but lookout for new investment in production of electric cars - not likely - imo

The agreement will accumulate a long list of 'we have to have this changed'

Lars

* at least until the UK is SM/CU/ECJ member and very possible until UK is again a full EU member.

schmoo2k

As Douglas Adams said - "So long, and thanks for all the fish..."

BlitzKrieg

small potatoes but family was quick to feel the touch of brexit this morning in a minor first world sort of way. Lived with my sister in the UK together for a few years, she's moved back to Ireland for work just this year. But she had an amazon prime account while here in UK. She kept it when she moved back to ireland as it made little difference

Until today, Cant use amazon prime UK abroad anymore under Brexit (at least not fully).


I expect we will see lots of little pokes like this annoy people where it'll be laughed off, while the really big cuts go mostly unnoticed outside of those looking for it in threads like this until its too late.

johnnyskeleton

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I think it's only really beginning to be honest. We've years ahead where the British and the EU are going to have to define their relationship as the economic and geographical forces push London towards Brussels and we wait for the government to realise that close alignment is always going to be necessary because of those forces.

There is a crucial difference though. For the last 4 years they have been able to command the attention of the EU and Ireland in a disproportionate manner, as Brexit was ongoing.

Now they are a third country, so any issues regarding trade problems should be about as newsworthy as trade with Canada or Japan, and less newsworthy as trade with the US or Russia

Hermy

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

And a constitution, a republic not monarchy, prstv not first past the post, upper house not made of hereditary caste of lords and finally media that hasn’t dropped the ball and acts as the 4th leg of the democratic table.

Last few years of madness either side of us make me proud to be Irish

Like you, I too am proud to be Irish, particularly in light of recent events, but lets not forget that that constitution was written by religious zealots, despite this supposedly being a republic, and that zealotry casts a long shadow, meaning, among other things, I, and many like me, unlike my fellow adoptees in the UK, am not allowed to know who my parents are.

But I digress.

CelticRambler

Hermy wrote: »

lets not forget that that constitution was written by religious zealots, despite this supposedly being a republic, and that zealotry casts a long shadow

Maybe, but those same zealots provided for a mechanism by which their version of the constitution could be updated in a well-ordered manner, something which has been done several times over the last decade to make Ireland a less "zealous" country. Our transatlantic cousins have a similarly fundamentalist constitution that's damn near impossible to update, while our "friends and partners" (to cite a certain zealous if unprincipled PM) in Britain have nothing but a collection of napkins and fag-packets to protect them against the modern world.

ancapailldorcha

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

There is a crucial difference though. For the last 4 years they have been able to command the attention of the EU and Ireland in a disproportionate manner, as Brexit was ongoing.

Now they are a third country, so any issues regarding trade problems should be about as newsworthy as trade with Canada or Japan, and less newsworthy as trade with the US or Russia

I think they'll continue to command some degree of attention though in a diminished capacity as the body of the whole Brexit saga is "done" now. However, I do think there may be a risk of the Swiss situation with multiple bilateral treaties which I think would be perhaps best for both sides as the EU can use this to secure LPF arrangements across a variety of sectors.

I disagree with your comment about Canada or Japan because geography will mean the UK receiving more attention than either. If the libertarians are successful in slashing regulations and trying to undermine the single market then that's a serious problem for Brussels and indeed the main reason they wanted and got the LPF commitment. We don't know what's next for the government now that it'll be a bit less focused on covid and much less so on Brexit but I think they need to be watched nonetheless.

Sam Russell

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I think they'll continue to command some degree of attention though in a diminished capacity as the body of the whole Brexit saga is "done" now. However, I do think there may be a risk of the Swiss situation with multiple bilateral treaties which I think would be perhaps best for both sides as the EU can use this to secure LPF arrangements across a variety of sectors.

I disagree with your comment about Canada or Japan because geography will mean the UK receiving more attention than either. If the libertarians are successful in slashing regulations and trying to undermine the single market then that's a serious problem for Brussels and indeed the main reason they wanted and got the LPF commitment. We don't know what's next for the government now that it'll be a bit less focused on covid and much less so on Brexit but I think they need to be watched nonetheless.

I think we will see the major negatives of Brexit being unpicked one by one.

There are some problems that will soon be agreed without fanfare, but move closer back to what was the situation. For example, the Erasmus scheme could be implemented by a UK version quietly aligning with Erasmus, but not, heaven forefend, being Erasmus.

Many of the various EU institutions that supervise the workings of the EU, like the EMA, EBA, Euratom, etc. could become useful for the UK to rejoin (quietly) and gradually increase the useful part (to them) of the EU. Eventually, they could find themselves back where they started.

Pragmatism could win out.

schmoo2k

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

small potatoes but family was quick to feel the touch of brexit this morning in a minor first world sort of way. Lived with my sister in the UK together for a few years, she's moved back to Ireland for work just this year. But she had an amazon prime account while here in UK. She kept it when she moved back to ireland as it made little difference

Until today, Cant use amazon prime UK abroad anymore under Brexit (at least not fully).


I expect we will see lots of little pokes like this annoy people where it'll be laughed off, while the really big cuts go mostly unnoticed outside of those looking for it in threads like this until its too late.

That boat has sailed. To be fair its the Brexiters who will need to stop talking and start working for the better of the new economy

Hermy

CelticRambler wrote: »

Maybe, but those same zealots provided for a mechanism by which their version of the constitution could be updated in a well-ordered manner, something which has been done several times over the last decade to make Ireland a less "zealous" country. Our transatlantic cousins have a similarly fundamentalist constitution that's damn near impossible to update, while our "friends and partners" (to cite a certain zealous if unprincipled PM) in Britain have nothing but a collection of napkins and fag-packets to protect them against the modern world.

Agreed.

There's no doubt but that the "zealousness" I speak of is slowly but surely being consigned to the history books and more importantly, and very relevant to this thread, being done without much of the chaos we've witnessed in those other two jurisdictions.

prawnsambo

CelticRambler wrote: »

Maybe, but those same zealots provided for a mechanism by which their version of the constitution could be updated in a well-ordered manner, something which has been done several times over the last decade to make Ireland a less "zealous" country. Our transatlantic cousins have a similarly fundamentalist constitution that's damn near impossible to update, while our "friends and partners" (to cite a certain zealous if unprincipled PM) in Britain have nothing but a collection of napkins and fag-packets to protect them against the modern world.

To protect them from their own government. And they're easily binned napkins and fag packets. I've always believed that the 'sovereignty' issue with the EU was more to do with government freedom to do what it likes than any perceived inability of the hoi polloi to do what it likes. No individual in the UK has gained the slightest bit of sovereignty today, but they've lost a lot of protections.

salonfire

trellheim wrote: »

Official UK Gov case studies for exporting and importing after tomorrow

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949044/BordersOpModel_Case_Studies.pdf


Look at for example at Journey 7 - moving Fish to france. Head melting stuff

Once people are familiar with the process to export to the EU, it will become more streamlined. No delays reported today.

Brexit is going as I feared, the UK is going to gain a lot of advantages with fewer costs.

When others costs are imposed on business - rates, insurance, parental leave, increasing minimum wage - business absorbs and adapts and don't just pull down the shutters. The same will be for additional export costs.

The EU rolled over like a puppy, giving them tariff free access and kicked the Services can down the road allowing the UK to continue with services as well.

So much for nothing is agreed until every thing is agreed.