Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

amacca

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

It seems hauliers have already elected to bypass the landbridge, with the two Rosslare-Dunkirk ferries tomorrow, along with the reverse journey the same day, fully booked out:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/first-day-of-sailings-between-rosslare-and-dunkirk-booked-out-1.4448217

It's the only sensible option when you are faced with uncertain timelines via the landbridge.

I hope it's not too costly for these firms and they can continue to trade profitably and thrive.

Maybe even capture some of the business the UK loses.

Tell me how

This is what I've been saying the future will look like.

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1344971129371430912

People like Farage will continue to see the EU as something he despises and we can expect to see continued coverage in the UK media of people like him commenting on EU issues and when various member states are negotiating certain agreements to have him and others like him in the sidelines bleating on about how they should leave and do a deal with the UK. It'll become very tiresome very quickly.

We need more Guy Verhofstadt's to respond to him appropriately.

Irish Praetorian

Strazdas wrote: »

I notice that the Brexit disciples in the Daily Mail comments have all bought into the sovereignty stuff. So they are going to have to perform some mental gymnastics not to blame their hero Johnson if things start getting dicey in the next year.

Also, it will be very hard for the press to control the narrative if it becomes clear that Brexit UK is lagging behind the EU.

As a connoisseur of the Daily Mail comments section, I've been surprised in recent weeks at the number of uprated anti-Johnson or anti-Brexit comments. I wouldn't for a second suggest a massive shift in attitudes but I wouldn't see the same lock step support for Faraga/Brexit/sticking to Johnny forEUginer as I used to.

Tell me how

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

As a connoisseur of the Daily Mail comments section, I've been surprised in recent weeks at the number of uprated anti-Johnson or anti-Brexit comments. I wouldn't for a second suggest a massive shift in attitudes but I wouldn't see the same lock step support for Faraga/Brexit/sticking to Johnny forEUginer as I used to.

I've noticed similar in responses to various commentators on Twitter but, I think there is probably some element of the Brexiteers having 'won' and so don't feel the need to engage where as Remainers still feel cheated given everything that has emerged about the Leave campaign and has gone on since 2016 with it being obvious there isn't been a majority for any agreement or strategy up until this weeks vote.

Jess Philips has a piece in a UK Paper today and responses to her tweet on it was mostly people saying they refuse to stop saying this is a bad idea, just because it has now happened.

yagan

amacca wrote: »

It's the only sensible option when you are faced with uncertain timelines via the landbridge.

I hope it's not too costly for these firms and they can continue to trade profitably and thrive.

Maybe even capture some of the business the UK loses.

From now on GB hauliers won't be able to offer internal EU services, the can only pick up and drop off UK/EU trade. It's the same as UK airlines not being able to offer internal EU routes, just routes between GB and the EU.

Sierra Oscar

Does Britannia rule the waves yet?

Interesting times ahead. No longer can UK MP's, particularly Conservative MP's, blame the baddies in Europe for their mishandling of domestic matters. Mind you they'll still try their best to do so.

It's going to be fascinating to watch Brexiteers in the years ahead when it becomes clear that the Empire is never returning.

ancapailldorcha

Tell me how wrote: »

We need more Guy Verhofstadt's to respond to him appropriately.

Why? The UK is now a third country so the prattling of their media isn't relevant. Even Farage himself, aside from spooking Cameron in 2015 isn't relevant.

Brexit has been nothing but an international humiliation for the UK. Why would any other EU member state want to leave right now when we can see what happened to a major member like the UK?

Professor Moriarty

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Why? The UK is now a third country so the prattling of their media isn't relevant. Even Farage himself, aside from spooking Cameron in 2015 isn't relevant.

Brexit has been nothing but an international humiliation for the UK. Why would any other EU member state want to leave right now when we can see what happened to a major member like the UK?

In fact, across the EU, polls have shown increased satisfaction with the EU. No doubt many people are watching how the UK is imploding, has destroyed its credibility and is sabotaging its own economy. They're thinking, 'Christ no, I don't want that for my country'.

yagan

AutoTuning wrote: »

However, those tabloids always have someone to target. So if they go into post brexit mode it's very likely they could end up driving agendas in terms of class war against social welfare recipients. It's almost inevitable they'll continue to bang the anti immigration drum and if things get economically harder both due to COVID issues and Brexit that may well just get worse and worse.

There's loads of ways I can see it going in the long term. According to the English rabid Brexit media the neblus EU has been sent packing, so to continue bitching about the EU is to undermine their own victory. So therefore anti Europe tirades will now concentrate on individual countries as they do something that deeply offends British sensibilities like Spain ferreting undocumented overstayer Brits out of the costas.

There'll be some sob story about how heartless Spain ruined poor Doris's retirement plans because she didn't bother with the silly trivial registration of her residency in time etc.. The British media will call it petty Spanish vindictiveness or something.. Then a campaign will start that specifically targets settled Spanish in blighty "kick out Manuel", missing the irony that Britain is Fawlty Towers.

All the while they'll continue to pit the poor white and minorities against eachother. Won't be surprised if there's troops on English within a year.

tubercolossus

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

In fact, across the EU, polls have shown increased satisfaction with the EU. No doubt many people are watching how the UK is imploding, has destroyed its credibility and is sabotaging its own economy. They're thinking, 'Christ no, I don't want that for my country'.

Yes, if there's one upside to Brexit for the EU is it's done a magnificent pour encourager les autres job of putting any other members off any kind of -exit for good.

fash

Happy4all wrote: »

The zero VAT rate applies in Ireland for years. How was that possible for Ireland if it was something the EU blocked for the UK?

Because you are "locked in" to non zero rated VAT if you didn't have zero rated VAT to begin with. Ireland "grandfathered" its zero rate VAT.

tubercolossus

Good grief. Ian Duncan Smith today.


https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1344959271742615553?s=19

Just Rejoice! IDS: “I just wish I was 21 again, frankly, because my goodness what prospects lie ahead of us for young people now: to be out there buccaneering, trading, dominating the world again.”

yagan

tubercolossus wrote: »

Good grief. Ian Duncan Smith today.


https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1344959271742615553?s=19

Just Rejoice! IDS: “I just wish I was 21 again, frankly, because my goodness what prospects lie ahead of us for young people now: to be out there buccaneering, trading, dominating the world again.”

If there was any doubt remaining that the UK only ever saw the European market as a replacement for Empire.

alchemist33

tubercolossus wrote: »

Good grief. Ian Duncan Smith today.


https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1344959271742615553?s=19

Just Rejoice! IDS: “I just wish I was 21 again, frankly, because my goodness what prospects lie ahead of us for young people now: to be out there buccaneering, trading, dominating the world again.”

I suppose doubling down is his only option at this stage, but I hope he gains insight at some point in his life.

Shelga

tubercolossus wrote: »

Good grief. Ian Duncan Smith today.


https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1344959271742615553?s=19

Just Rejoice! IDS: “I just wish I was 21 again, frankly, because my goodness what prospects lie ahead of us for young people now: to be out there buccaneering, trading, dominating the world again.”

I turned on LBC when I woke up this morning, out of habit, and first thing I heard was a middle-aged Brexiter woman listing fantasy ways that the EU has cheated the UK. I realised in that moment that it's January 1st, they are gone; I do not have to listen to these lies, I never did.

I switched off after about 20 seconds, made a nice cup of coffee, felt so much better. I'm going to aim to not pay quite as much attention to this thread in 2021 either, no offence everyone :pac:

Five Eighth

Just Rejoice! IDS: “I just wish I was 21 again, frankly, because my goodness what prospects lie ahead of us for young people now: to be out there buccaneering, trading, dominating the world again.”

Tell that to the Japanese, Chinese, Americans, Germans, Koreans....delusional.

Hermy

tubercolossus wrote: »

Just Rejoice! IDS: “I just wish I was 21 again, frankly, because my goodness what prospects lie ahead of us for young people now: to be out there buccaneering, trading, dominating the world again.”

So they'll recoup their losses by resorting to piracy...

Sam Russell

IDS was 21 in 1975.

I doubt he was part of any British buccaneering, trading or dominating the world when he was 21.

In fact 1975 was the year the the UK voted to remain in the EU. So not so much of any of the dominating the world - certainly not IDS.

Tell me how

tubercolossus wrote: »

Good grief. Ian Duncan Smith today.


https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/1344959271742615553?s=19

Just Rejoice! IDS: “I just wish I was 21 again, frankly, because my goodness what prospects lie ahead of us for young people now: to be out there buccaneering, trading, dominating the world again.”

That's why they have Brexit. Because people who grew up on stories of such imagery being their absolute right and the sun never setting on their empire got in to a position where they could fool enough people that this was possible again 50 years later.

The absolute insolence of IDS to state this as freedom of movement to work and study was removed from millions of 21 year olds must be genuinely so depressing for them to have to listen to today.

tubercolossus

Hermy wrote: »

So they'll recoup their losses by resorting to piracy...

Told you. Like in Python's Meaning of Life. Sailing around the world, a'pillaging and a'dominatin...

breezy1985

tubercolossus wrote: »

Told you. Like in Python's Meaning of Life. Sailing around the world, a'pillaging and a'dominatin...

I was about to post a picture of that sketch as soon as I read the IDS quote but then remembered the rules

tubercolossus

I read a good piece somewhere which theorised that the generation that actually experienced the war maintained a proportionate view of it, especially the actual participants. There was little in the way of romanticism about 'Britain's finest hour'. But the succeeding generations, now middle-aged or elderly themselves are the ones peddling this ridiculous imperial-nostalgia twaddle that has resulted in Brexit.

tubercolossus

I suppose you could see it as a gestalt of two famous dictums: that those who forget history are condemned to repeat it, and that history repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce.

A cohort of this Brit generation are trying to recapture the WWII spirit, but all they can come up with is a farce called Brexit.

Jizique

breezy1985 wrote: »

I was about to post a picture of that sketch as soon as I read the IDS quote but then remembered the rules

And the sad part of the Monty Python bit is that Cleese is still alive and has emerged as a nasty and bitter anti-Irish and other immigrant little englander

Tell me how

Jizique wrote: »

And the sad part of the Monty Python bit is that Cleese is still alive and has emerged as a nasty and bitter anti-Irish and other immigrant little englander

And the fact that he is living in the Caribbean being the cherry on the icing on top of the Brexit cake of hypocrisy and selfishness.

paul71

Jizique wrote: »

And the sad part of the Monty Python bit is that Cleese is still alive and has emerged as a nasty and bitter anti-Irish and other immigrant little englander

I did not know he was of that persuasion, is he?

Imreoir2

salonfire wrote: »

If paperwork is in order, why would there be delays?

But yes, it could be the case those businesses may no longer be viable. But other businesses will be created at the same time just like business always evolves.

If.

Getting that paperwork in order is expensive, making a mistake is more expensive. Even if it is right, you can be delayed behind others who don't have it right.

Some businesses will close, more will have to lay off staff due to reduced demand and reduced profits. Brexit will cause economic damage to the UK, already has.

breezy1985

paul71 wrote: »

I did not know he was of that persuasion, is he?

If you love Python or any of his other work save yourself now and don't google him ever again

Imreoir2

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

You could argue that by taking some of these people from the dole queues you are mitigating the net cost of employing them. But I'm looking at it from a profit and loss perspective. 31st December, the UK does not employ 50,000 customs officers to facilitate trade. 1st January, the UK employs 50,000 customs officers to facilitate trade.

Many of them won't be coming from the dole queue, a significant number of them will be coming from the active labour force, diverting competant and skilled workers from the productive economey to public sector paper pushing, and creating many more unemployed people as a result of their activities.

Imreoir2

Strazdas wrote: »

It strikes me that the Tories and their right wing press pals have created a big problem for themselves. They have completely exorcised the EU and Europe from all aspects of British life - to the point where all of the bad stuff that happens from now on can only possibly be blamed on Westminster.

If anything, they have overdone the 'We are free, we are independent, we are sovereign' stuff. They are nearly forgetting this will leave themselves 100% in the firing line.

Not to wory, only a few weeks away from discovering all the dasterdly European traps that have been hidden in the deal.

Much like the Withdrawl Agreement, the Brexit FTA will go from feast to famine in the Tory perception in due course and the public will line up behind whatever narrative their betters feed them. Blaming the EU just feels to natural to be seriously questioned anyway.