Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

BorneTobyWilde

Ebay germany needs an english version. Has everything ebay uk has and more, even better value . But it's in German !

Igotadose

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Ebay germany needs an english version. Has everything ebay uk has and more, even better value . But it's in German !

Been using it for years. Google translate is your friend.

Sam Russell

Igotadose wrote: »

Been using it for years. Google translate is your friend.

It can translate automatically - but not the graphics.

peter kern

sondagefaux wrote: »

Because Irish importers who have just relied on buying stuff from the UK because it was the closest and easiest rather than the cheapest or better quality will now be forced to buy from other EU countries if they want to remain competitive. And buying from 26 other EU countries means far better choice and range of prices than just buying from the UK, as individual Irish consumers are finding out.

EG: https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058148203/1/#post115862410

i agree the convininece shopper will likely do better .
but the more advanced google search shopper is going to lose out overall.

on a personal level i have less choice now . as i still bought about 50 % of my bike gear in the uk whilst always checking out the continent.

therefore i cant really wait the uk joining the eu again ,as it gives more options.

kowloon

Sam Russell wrote: »

It can translate automatically - but not the graphics.

This is an act of desperation, but if you're stuck use the google translate app on your phone and use the camera on your screen. Stupid but it works.

Capt'n Midnight

yagan wrote: »

I'd never really thought of that as I've usually just used an adapter, but having googled the options I can see wall sockets that take both UK and EU plugs becoming the norm in Ireland.

UK plug is the safest type. Has a fuse. Neutral and live are never swapped. Earth pin makes contact first, breaks last. But it's on the worst mains wiring. Any problems wiring a socket could lead to overloading on one half of the ring.

There are LOTS of EU plug types. But if you are going to Europe take the German adaptor for your UK stuff because you'll get a local adaptor for the German one far easier than you'll get a UK adaptor.




Someone posted earlier about screw in bulbs rather than UK type bayonet fittings. I've a valve grinder. It's got little rubber suckers at the end of a short stick. Very handy when you have to tighten screw in ceiling bulbs every few months instead of using a chair or stepladder. Something you never ever have to do with other bulb types.

I digress. But it shows how screwed places like B&Q might be. Since most of what they sell is screw in which is obviously imported they'll need some supply chain adjustments.


And the big one. Irish mains voltage is 230V +/- 10% ( 207 Volts to 253 Volts EN50160 ) enough to cover both the EU 220V and the UK 240V.

Be interesting to see if Ireland and Malta go towards 220V over time

Not as big an issue as it was when a tiny over voltage would drastically reduce the life of incandescent bulbs and under voltage dropped their efficiency.

Capt'n Midnight

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

UK plug is the safest type. Has a fuse. Neutral and live are never swapped. Earth pin makes contact first, breaks last. But it's on the worst mains wiring. Any problems wiring a socket could lead to overloading on one half of the ring.

There are LOTS of EU plug types. But if you are going to Europe take the German adaptor for your UK stuff because you'll get a local adaptor for the German one far easier than you'll get a UK adaptor.




Someone posted earlier about screw in bulbs rather than UK type bayonet fittings. I've a valve grinder. It's got little rubber suckers at the end of a short stick. Very handy when you have to tighten screw in ceiling bulbs every few months instead of using a chair or stepladder. Something you never ever have to do with other bulb types.

I digress. But it shows how screwed places like B&Q might be. Since most of what they sell is screw in which is obviously imported they'll need some supply chain adjustments.


And the big one. Irish mains voltage is 230V +/- 10% ( 207 Volts to 253 Volts EN50160 ) enough to cover both the EU 220V and the UK 240V.

Be interesting to see if Ireland and Malta go towards 220V over time

Not as big an issue as it was when a tiny over voltage would drastically reduce the life of incandescent bulbs and under voltage dropped their efficiency.

UK style plugs are widely used around the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets:_British_and_related_types#International_usage_of_Type_G

The IEC World Plugs lists Type G[38] as being used in the following locations: Bahrain, Bangladesh, Belize, Bhutan, Botswana, Brunei Darussalam, Cambodia, Cyprus, Dominica, Falkland Islands, Gambia, Ghana, Gibraltar, Grenada, Guyana, Hong Kong, Iraq, Ireland, Isle of Man, Jordan, Kenya, Kuwait, Lebanon, Macau, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Myanmar, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Saudi Arabia, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Sri Lanka, Tanzania, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Vanuatu, Vietnam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

The recent harmonisation of electrical standards in Europe settled on 230v, so there is no need to transition to 220v.



Anyway, another issue is that in the future there is a requirement for a low voltage DC system that integrates with home battery storage solutions as the original requirement for 240V AC was entirely due to the transfer of energy from central power stations to the individual consumer. In the future more and more consumers are going to be using solar panels and battery storage systems to power their properties and the vast majority of household appliances (excluding laundry & kitchen) and lights are low power and run on low voltage DC so in reality it will make sense to cable up houses with 48V DC or similar to provide a far safer supply as well as saving energy in avoiding losses in voltage conversions. Such a system would require yet another standard for plugs & sockets.


Such a standard really needs to be defined at a global (not just EU) level to avoid another round of incompatible connectors.

L1011

I think the industry has already decided our low voltage DC format is 5V USB, which is awful but we're stuck with it.

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

The recent harmonisation of electrical standards in Europe settled on 230v, so there is no need to transition to 220v.

Only done as a fudge for the UK. We were 220V because got the Germans in and setup a national grid before the UK did.

Malta is now the only country in the EU that might actually need the 230V fudge.

Otherwise it could be 220 +/- 5% , like most of the other countries in Europe, Asia and Africa, other than former UK colonies.

Such a standard really needs to be defined at a global (not just EU) level to avoid another round of incompatible connectors.

And that's why the 230V fudge needs to go.

Most countries are at 220V or half of that at 110V. That means that things which aren't auto-switching like heaters, some motors, and transformers with a split secondary can be changed over with a single switch that changes from parallel to series operation. Changing 240V <--> 110V isn't so neat.


Connectors are a very different issue though. Edison screw bulbs come in E27 and E26 sizes. Physically the same except the higher voltage version has a slightly higher minimum insulation distance. And both work themselves slowly out of the socket over time because of thermal expansion cycles. There is no point in having an internation standard if there are better ones. A backwards adaptor or mis-wired Edison screw adaptor is lethal.


With the UK out, the EU can drop the fudges and concessions given only to the UK.

Seth Brundle

Eurotunnel apparently have been providing truckers with an incorrect postal code for a Kent lorry park...

https://twitter.com/KentishExpress/status/1347524535772475393?s=19

prawnsambo

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Only done as a fudge for the UK. We were 220V because got the Germans in and setup a national grid before the UK did.

We are actually 240v. I know because I was having problems back in the last century with failing hard drives. Clocked my voltage as high as 249v. Got on to the ESB who told me it was in range for 240v. They eventually changed the transformer and I dropped down to an average of about 238v. I don't think I've ever seen my voltage drop below 230v.

L1011

L1011 wrote: »

I think the industry has already decided our low voltage DC format is 5V USB, which is awful but we're stuck with it.

Agreed, It would be better to run with the 48V POE standard (enhanced to 15amp) that the IT industry has adopted for many network connected low powered devices.

LED lights, TV's and other home entertainment systems could easily run on such a supply, just have the 230V mains for high powered devices.

PS 48V was chosen as it was the standard voltage used in analogue phone systems to ring the bell.

Anyway I'll stop there, back to bashing Brexit!

Capt'n Midnight

L1011 wrote: »

I think the industry has already decided our low voltage DC format is 5V USB, which is awful but we're stuck with it.

Grand for short distances.

Historically 5V +/- 5% was what powered TTL logic chips which would latch and self destruct at 6V. So was universal on smaller computers, with 12V for the spiny things like motors for drives and fans.

Leaning on industry to use a common connector was a EU thing.
A single lithium cell gets to maybe 4.05V fully charged so 5V was handy enough for phone chargers.

USB C can go up to 20V but only if the device being powered can talk to a compatible charger. So only for smart devices which adds costs but they reduce over time.

The other standard is PoE. It will go further. But despite being old enough to vote and using standard Cat5 cabling it's more expensive and doesn't offer more power. But it's as easy as replacing your network switch with a switch that can inject power. Or you can get separate PoE injectors.


The simplest wiring would be something like 12V as used by car industry (12.1V ? or 13.8-14.4V ?) and fuses. Possibly using 1-Wire control. Not using cigarette lighter sockets.

And we are back to whether to use a ring system or wiring each port back to a single point of failure hub.



I'd expect any other standards will be more expensive and difficult.

But unlike the UK trading with the EU, consumers can choose which standard to use.

Capt'n Midnight

Nature Magazine's summary on BrexitUK will remain in cost neutral Horizon. Any country that gets too much will have to pay it back. It looses Galileo but stays with the Copernicus Earth observation programs. So the UK will get data and some satellite work.

At a cost of £100m the new Turing Scheme will replace Erasmus which used to benefit the economy by £245. The difference being the number on that red bus.

More talks on nuclear, but good news on QC on medicines.

the United Kingdom will also now become an associate member of the Euratom ... It may be months before a separate agreement for this association is reached
...
the United Kingdom and EU have agreed to recognize each other’s quality standards and inspections of medicines.

And the one that might bite hard and fast and upset multiple apple carts.

Separate to the deal, the United Kingdom is still waiting for the EU to decide whether its data-protection regulations are “adequate”.

sondagefaux

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Nature Magazine's summary on BrexitUK will remain in cost neutral Horizon. Any country that gets too much will have to pay it back. It looses Galileo but stays with the Copernicus Earth observation programs. So the UK will get data and some satellite work.

At a cost of £100m the new Turing Scheme will replace Erasmus which used to benefit the economy by £245. The difference being the number on that red bus.

More talks on nuclear, but good news on QC on medicines.



And the one that might bite hard and fast and upset multiple apple carts.

The UK's pre-Brexit data protection rules were on shaky enough ground as far as the EU was concerned.

Even if the Commission grants equivalence, any agreement on data transfers from the EU to the UK will have to be compliant with the Schrems and Schrems II rulings from the CJEU.

If the agreement is not watertight, we can expect it to be struck down by a Schrems III ruling.

sondagefaux

peter kern wrote: »

i agree the convininece shopper will likely do better .
but the more advanced google search shopper is going to lose out overall.

on a personal level i have less choice now . as i still bought about 50 % of my bike gear in the uk whilst always checking out the continent.

therefore i cant really wait the uk joining the eu again ,as it gives more options.

Northern Ireland based retailers can sell into the UK *and* EU without any barriers. The barriers within the UK are for GB to NI trade, not the other way around.

Over time, the more savvy UK producers and online retailers will realise this, and set up in Northern Ireland.

Detritus70

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Ebay germany needs an english version. Has everything ebay uk has and more, even better value . But it's in German !

Chrome will translate webpages and it's quite good.

Igotadose

kowloon wrote: »

This is an act of desperation, but if you're stuck use the google translate app on your phone and use the camera on your screen. Stupid but it works.

copy the listing to ebay.co.uk, look at the images there, order on the .de site.

Charles Babbage

Deleted User wrote: »

Agreed, It would be better to run with the 48V POE standard (enhanced to 15amp) that the IT industry has adopted for many network connected low powered devices.

LED lights, TV's and other home entertainment systems could easily run on such a supply, just have the 230V mains for high powered devices.

PS 48V was chosen as it was the standard voltage used in analogue phone systems to ring the bell.

Anyway I'll stop there, back to bashing Brexit!

Talk of 48v rang a bell, but I couldn't quite remember where.

This lockdown would be less fun if all you had was a local battery magneto phone.

sondagefaux

GRMA Brexiteers. Nice of ye to encourage British chains to buy Irish.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/marks-spencer-may-buy-more-irish-goods-as-it-seeks-ways-to-avoid-tariff-confusion-1.4453608?mode=amp

yagan

sondagefaux wrote: »

Northern Ireland based retailers can sell into the UK *and* EU without any barriers. The barriers within the UK are for GB to NI trade, not the other way around.

Over time, the more savvy UK producers and online retailers will realise this, and set up in Northern Ireland.

Isn't the lack of documentation for Ni > GB only temporary, until June or so?

Igotadose

sondagefaux wrote: »

Northern Ireland based retailers can sell into the UK *and* EU without any barriers. The barriers within the UK are for GB to NI trade, not the other way around.

Over time, the more savvy UK producers and online retailers will realise this, and set up in Northern Ireland.

Brexit always had the potential to make NI a gateway like you describe. If they went for May's original plan where NI stayed in the SM and CU, I'd imagine they'd do quite well there and maybe, for once, with some job prosperity they'd calm down and coolly discuss reunification.

Then came the DUP, and the rest is where we are today, not as good as it could have been, business-opportunity wise, than it is. Oh well.

road_high

sondagefaux wrote: »

GRMA Brexiteers. Nice of ye to encourage British chains to buy Irish.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/marks-spencer-may-buy-more-irish-goods-as-it-seeks-ways-to-avoid-tariff-confusion-1.4453608?mode=amp

Aldi and Lidl have massively done this. It’s infinitely possible. Tariffs are a no no really, make things completely uncompetitive

Capt'n Midnight

yagan wrote: »

Isn't the lack of documentation for Ni > GB only temporary, until June or so?

Not just NI.

EU > GB won't have full checks either until later in the year. Because the systems aren't fully setup yet and won't be until July when they go into stage 3

So Johnny Foreigner knows what they can get away in the meantime.
But plucky British exporters got to face full EU controls on day 1.

L1011

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Talk of 48v rang a bell, but I couldn't quite remember where.

This lockdown would be less fun if all you had was a local battery magneto phone.

48V is still an option (often added price, not default) on professional grade network equipment, microwave links, broadcast kit and so on - all far more power consumptive than PoE but picked because it was the DC standard that somewhere might have already due to having had telephony gear.

sondagefaux

yagan wrote: »

Isn't the lack of documentation for Ni > GB only temporary, until June or so?

Not according to gov.uk:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/moving-qualifying-goods-from-northern-ireland-to-the-rest-of-the-uk

Essentially, goods produced in NI will have 'unfetterred access' to Britain. Goods imported into NI from outside the EU and re-exported to Britain will be in free circulation within the whole UK once any UK tariffs are paid. Those tariffs (if there are any) will be the same as if the goods were imported from non-EU countries directly into Britain.

EU goods imported into Northern Ireland and then sold in Britain can qualify for tariff waiver if they remain under customs control using transit procedures while they transit through Northern Ireland.

EU goods imported into Northern Ireland can be re-exported back to the EU without incurring tariffs, unlike EU goods imported into Britain which are re-exported to the EU.

This makes it more advantageous to use Northern Ireland as a production and distribution centre for goods to be sold in Britain and the EU, than to use Britain.

sondagefaux

road_high wrote: »

Aldi and Lidl have massively done this. It’s infinitely possible. Tariffs are a no no really, make things completely uncompetitive

Tariffs are not an issue for goods produced in Britain and sold in the EU.

Tariffs are an issue for goods not produced in Britain but sold in the EU.

Non-tariff barriers, such as the requirement for each consignment of foods of animal origin, or ingredients of animal origin, to be accompanied by an Export Health Certificate signed off by a vet, and for foods imported into the EU to meet all the EU's packaging and labelling requirements, are causing problems for some ill-prepared British retailers with branches in NI, Ireland or elsewhere in the EU.

M&S seem to be the worst prepared:

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1187807/

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/politics/ms-temporarily-withdraws-hundreds-items-sale-northern-ireland-due-irish-sea-border-red-tape-3089599

RobMc59

sondagefaux wrote: »

Not according to gov.uk:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/moving-qualifying-goods-from-northern-ireland-to-the-rest-of-the-uk

Essentially, goods produced in NI will have 'unfetterred access' to Britain. Goods imported into NI from outside the EU and re-exported to Britain will be in free circulation within the whole UK once any UK tariffs are paid. Those tariffs (if there are any) will be the same as if the goods were imported from non-EU countries directly into Britain.

EU goods imported into Northern Ireland and then sold in Britain can qualify for tariff waiver if they remain under customs control using transit procedures while they transit through Northern Ireland.

EU goods imported into Northern Ireland can be re-exported back to the EU without incurring tariffs, unlike EU goods imported into Britain which are re-exported to the EU.

This makes it more advantageous to use Northern Ireland as a production and distribution centre for goods to be sold in Britain and the EU, than to use Britain.

All of which is great news for NI as it will stimulate the economy but not so great news for those hoping for a UI.There will be a part of the UK having their cake and eating it.

kowloon

Igotadose wrote: »

copy the listing to ebay.co.uk, look at the images there, order on the .de site.

I assumed the trouble they were having was with the likes of images with text in them on Ebay.de rather than raw text which will be translated on Ebay. Same goes for other sites.

sondagefaux

RobMc59 wrote: »

All of which is great news for NI as it will stimulate the economy but not so great news for those hoping for a UI.There will be a part of the UK having their cake and eating it.

A more prosperous Northern Ireland which is more integrated economically with the republic and wider EU will be easier to reunite with than a basket-case economy with a weak private sector, reliant on subsidies from Britain.