Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

murphaph

I've seen several small producers and retailers in my chosen hobby suspend shipments to the EU indefinitely. Too much paperwork for these small operations.

Sexual Chocolate

murphaph wrote: »

I've seen several small producers and retailers in my chosen hobby suspend shipments to the EU indefinitely. Too much paperwork for these small operations.

Could be coincidence but ASOS are not allowing shipping on any of their sale lines today (or some of the branded stuff anyways) ? Can't remember if DPD deliver for them though and that maybe why or a website glitch.

murphaph

Sexual Chocolate wrote: »

Could be coincidence but ASOS are not allowing shipping on any of their sale lines today (or some of the branded stuff anyways) ? Can't remember if DPD deliver for them though and that maybe why or a website glitch.

I had to Google them. It looks like they sell clothes from the UK into the EU which is a dead business model now due to rules of origin.

I never really noticed how much stuff on Amazon.de comes from UK retailers using the marketplace. I had to skip over the first three items when looking for Loctite 603 yesterday as they were all UK shops. I don't need the hassle for something that costs a € or two more from a local German shop.

Now I'm consciously checking where these small items are fulfilled from to avoid UK shops where possible. They've really shot themselves in the foot.

BonnieSituation

I just checked up on a delivery there that I had from Schuh.

Went to store on NYE and they didn't have my size in stock but of course they have always done they ship it to you i that case if you want. So I agreed as I always have done when that's occurred. But they're coming from their English warehouse...

This is going to be a nice experiment of where I didn't order the runners online but in a store in Dublin and I could potentially be hit with import charges. Gonna be interesting.

Fionn1952

Ordered a few things for delivery from Argos last week, it still hasn't been shipped, but when chasing it up, I was informed that despite ordering on the Irish site that my items are being shipped from the UK. I've no idea where that leaves me with regards to import charges.

Also had a package delivered from Amazon last week which had been opened and resealed with a note stating that it had been inspected by Customs.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Ordered a few things for delivery from Argos last week, it still hasn't been shipped, but when chasing it up, I was informed that despite ordering on the Irish site that my items are being shipped from the UK. I've no idea where that leaves me with regards to import charges.

Also had a package delivered from Amazon last week which had been opened and resealed with a note stating that it had been inspected by Customs.

Cancelled an Amazon.co.uk order and bought the same thing on Amazon.de. Took q week door to door, product was cheaper and delivery was slightly dearer. Happy with that for the future.

Sexual Chocolate

murphaph wrote: »

I had to Google them. It looks like they sell clothes from the UK into the EU which is a dead business model now due to rules of origin.

I never really noticed how much stuff on Amazon.de comes from UK retailers using the marketplace. I had to skip over the first three items when looking for Loctite 603 yesterday as they were all UK shops. I don't need the hassle for something that costs a € or two more from a local German shop.

Now I'm consciously checking where these small items are fulfilled from to avoid UK shops where possible. They've really shot themselves in the foot.

Asos are registered with the Irish tax man so it's business as usual. My latest order came from Germany.

Went back there and looked again, seems that it was just stuff I so happened to click into that wouldn't ship, eg Nike hoodie for 15 or a Vans T shirt but will allow shipping to the US but not even UK. I dunno ?

It's all ****ed up imo and the negatives of Brexit are really starting to show now. It seems theres confusion and panic in the motor industry as the tariff free part of the trade deal only applies to stuff that falls under the Rules of Orgin such as Jaguar, Land Rover and anything that's assembled in the UK like Nissan and Honda. That's just one example.


I honestly dunno whether from the broader spectrum who Brexit screws over more at this stage, us or them ?

Seth Brundle

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Cancelled an Amazon.co.uk order and bought the same thing on Amazon.de. Took q week door to door, product was cheaper and delivery was slightly dearer. Happy with that for the future.

The OH was looking at buying a laptop case a week ago and was browsing amazon.co.uk
Prices were expensive but any she liked would not ship to Ireland.
I told her to look on Amazon.de and she found one she liked and including postage it was much less than the .co.uk site. Ordered on Sunday and arrived on Thursday (from DE) via courier.

sondagefaux

Gerry T wrote: »

Exactly, so they would hace left the EU list after that


There would be zero

No they didn't. Screenshot taken from
https://ec.europa.eu/info/food-farming-fisheries/food-safety-and-quality/certification/quality-labels/geographical-indications-register/

at 17:34 on Sunday 10th January 2020

sondagefaux

Well now.

BREXIT - SHIPPING UPDATE
The Northern Ireland Protocol means that we are able to send items throughout the UK, Ireland and to other EU regions without the need for declarations or customs charges. Usual shipping rates apply - please read more here.

ABOUT US
Founded by Laura McPolin in Banbridge, Northern Ireland

https://walkinwardrobeonline.com/pages/brexit-shipping-update

lawred2

sondagefaux wrote: »

Well now.




https://walkinwardrobeonline.com/pages/brexit-shipping-update

it can't be that easy surely...

sondagefaux

View wrote: »

Except, just as a prosperous Ireland would have little reason to vote to re-unite with the U.K., so too a prosperous NI would have little reason to vote to unite with the rest of Ireland.

If you look at voting trends in Northern Ireland, there's now a significant cohort of voters who don't regard themselves as either nationalist or unionist, but who are more open to a united Ireland.

They tend to be more middle-class and educated than the average in NI. The greater the percentage of these people in NI's population (which a more prosperous NI would facilitate), the more likely there is to be a majority for a united Ireland.

sondagefaux

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah, that's the usual problem. Generally people selling stuff on eBay do not provide an invoice with the goods or in fact any indication of the value of the goods. That leaves it up to customs to assess a value. And if the item comes in its original box (something that happens quite regularly) they'll be assuming it's new and value accordingly. Even assessing a S/H price is problematic for them. And of course if you're using Address Pal, the seller just thinks they're selling to someone in the UK and won't see the need to provide any value declaration.

Bottom line, steer well clear of eBay UK.

Apart from the price shown in the listing itself, the email you get from ebay when you buy an item and the proof you have of what you paid if you use PayPal of course.

All of these can be used as proof of the actual purchase price and to over-ride any Revenue valuation.

If Revenue are being stupid about valuations, contact the Ombudsmans Office to make a complaint.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/corporate/information-about-revenue/customer-service/statutory-appeal-procedures/ombudsman.aspx

You'd be surprised how quickly state agencies cop themselves on once the Ombudsman gets involved! 😄

sondagefaux

lawred2 wrote: »

it can't be that easy surely...

NI is in a unique position due to the Protocol.

NI is in the Single Market for goods and is covered by the EU's Universal Customs Code.

NI is also part of the UK's internal market and customs territory.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/moving-qualifying-goods-from-northern-ireland-to-the-rest-of-the-uk

Essentially, goods produced in NI will have 'unfetterred access' to Britain. Goods imported into NI from outside the EU and re-exported to Britain will be in free circulation within the whole UK once any UK tariffs are paid. Those tariffs (if there are any) will be the same as if the goods were imported from non-EU countries directly into Britain.

EU goods imported into Northern Ireland and then sold in Britain can qualify for tariff waiver if they remain under customs control using transit procedures while they transit through Northern Ireland.

EU goods imported into Northern Ireland can be re-exported back to the EU without incurring tariffs, unlike EU goods imported into Britain which are re-exported to the EU.

This makes it more advantageous to use Northern Ireland as a production and distribution centre for goods to be sold in Britain and the EU, than to use Britain.

RobMc59

sondagefaux wrote: »

If you look at voting trends in Northern Ireland, there's now a significant cohort of voters who don't regard themselves as either nationalist or unionist, but who are more open to a united Ireland.

They tend to be more middle-class and educated than the average in NI. The greater the percentage of these people in NI's population (which a more prosperous NI would facilitate), the more likely there is to be a majority for a united Ireland.

If NI is having the best of both worlds why on earth would it want to change the status quo?It`s got nothing to do with which class you are,it`s common sense.

lawred2

sondagefaux wrote: »

NI is in a unique position due to the Protocol.

NI is in the Single Market for goods and is covered by the EU's Universal Customs Code.

NI is also part of the UK's internal market and customs territory.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/moving-qualifying-goods-from-northern-ireland-to-the-rest-of-the-uk

Essentially, goods produced in NI will have 'unfetterred access' to Britain. Goods imported into NI from outside the EU and re-exported to Britain will be in free circulation within the whole UK once any UK tariffs are paid. Those tariffs (if there are any) will be the same as if the goods were imported from non-EU countries directly into Britain.

EU goods imported into Northern Ireland and then sold in Britain can qualify for tariff waiver if they remain under customs control using transit procedures while they transit through Northern Ireland.

EU goods imported into Northern Ireland can be re-exported back to the EU without incurring tariffs, unlike EU goods imported into Britain which are re-exported to the EU.

This makes it more advantageous to use Northern Ireland as a production and distribution centre for goods to be sold in Britain and the EU, than to use Britain.

A great deal that the Irish government achieved for the people of NI.

To be clear though, rules of origin would apply to goods imported in to NI from outside the EU?

sondagefaux

Gerry T wrote: »

Honestly im no expert, but there is something registering thst i read months back thst the UK didnt secure GI protection. Yes the EU would support this position but they wouldnt do the work for the UK. while im not claiming the UK havent protected thir GI status i havent seen that they have.
I do take your point on board but would like to see how thos pans out

You are mistaken Gerry. All UK GIs registered with the EU before the end of the transition period will remain protected by the EU.

Current EU scheme: UK GIs registered under the European scheme before the end of the transition period should continue to receive protection in the EU, but applications that are pending with the EU at the end of the transition period will no longer cover the UK.
...

...From 1 January 2021, Great Britain producers (but not Northern Ireland producers – see below) will be treated as a “third country” under the EU scheme, and will first need to secure protection for new GIs under the UK scheme before applying under the EU scheme. The criteria applied to determine registration of an application from a GB producer are otherwise the same as those which apply to products originating from the EU as outlined in the relevant EU regulations. Once registered, a GB GI under the EU scheme will benefit from the same level of protection as EU GIs.
...

According to the Withdrawal Agreement (and unless an alternate agreed position is reached regarding GIs), the EU regulations that govern the EU scheme will be directly retained in UK law (save for any amendments made by a statutory instrument to deal with deficiencies). Therefore, the criteria for obtaining protection under the UK scheme should in theory be the same as that required under the EU scheme, though in practice it is possible that the criteria could be applied differently.

...

Protection in Northern Ireland (NI): For new applications for protection in Northern Ireland and the EU from 1 January 2021, an application will need to be made under the EU scheme. Northern Ireland producers will need to make a separate application under the UK scheme for protection in Great Britain. Unlike EU producers, Northern Ireland producers will not need to be protected first under the EU scheme before applying for protection under the UK scheme.

In addition, registered GIs in relation to products that can be produced anywhere on the island of Ireland (including Irish Whiskey, Irish Cream and Irish Poteen) will continue to be protected and protectable under both the EU and the new UK schemes.

...

Continued use of EU logos: Food and agricultural GI products of EU origin must, under existing EU regulations, display the relevant EU logos. The same will continue to apply to food and agricultural GI products of Northern Ireland origin that are registered under the EU scheme.

As noted above, for food and agricultural GI products produced and for sale in Great Britain that were protected under the EU scheme before the end of the transition period, the EU logo may continue to be used until 1 January 2024, after which these producers will need to add the UK logos to the relevant packaging and marketing materials. Great Britain GI products that are protected in the EU can continue to use the EU logo on products sold in GB (but it will no longer be mandatory under the EU regulations) in addition to the mandatory UK logo.

...

Authors

Joel Smith
Joel Smith
Partner, IP, London
+44 20 7466 2331
Julie Chiu
Julie Chiu
Senior Associate (Australia), London
+44 20 7466 2658
Rachel Montagnon
Rachel Montagnon
Professional Support Consultant, IP, London
+44 20 7466 2217
© Herbert Smith Freehills 2021

https://hsfnotes.com/ip/2020/11/16/geographical-indications-a-new-scheme-for-the-uk-from-1-january-2021/

sondagefaux

lawred2 wrote: »

A great deal that the Irish government achieved for the people of NI.

To be clear though, rules of origin would apply to goods imported in to NI from outside the EU?

Rules of Origin apply to *all* goods in the trade agreement.

They are used to determine whether a sufficient proportion of the stuff in a product has been produced in the UK/EU (or sufficient extra processing of a non-UK/non-EU good has been done in the UK/EU), for it to qualify as a UK/EU good for the purposes of being exempt from tariffs when being traded between the UK and EU.

A finished good imported into NI from outside the UK/EU may incur UK import tariffs (if it's a good on which the UK charges tariffs) but these will be the same as if it was imported into Britain, so there's no disdvantage when importing non-UK/non-EU goods into NI compared to importing them into Britain

lawred2

sondagefaux wrote: »

Rules of Origin apply to *all* goods in the trade agreement.

They are used to determine whether a sufficient proportion of the stuff in a product has been produced in the UK/EU (or sufficient extra processing of a non-UK/non-EU good has been done in the UK/EU), for it to qualify as a UK/EU good for the purposes of being exempt from tariffs when being traded between the UK and EU.

A finished good imported into NI from outside the UK/EU may incur UK import tariffs (if it's a good on which the UK charges tariffs) but these will be the same as if it was imported into Britain, so there's no disdvantage when importing non-UK/non-EU goods into NI compared to importing them into Britain

Yeah but they can't just bang those goods imported from outside the EU on in to the EU via Ireland without adding some value correct?

Hurrache

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Even if you order stuff in EU the Irish Revenue will try it on and rinse you for a few euros to line their pockets.
Didn't take long for rip off Ireland to spring into action on the back of Brexit

No, no they don't. This is just made up stuff.

Hurrache

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I just checked up on a delivery there that I had from Schuh.

Went to store on NYE and they didn't have my size in stock but of course they have always done they ship it to you i that case if you want. So I agreed as I always have done when that's occurred. But they're coming from their English warehouse...

This is going to be a nice experiment of where I didn't order the runners online but in a store in Dublin and I could potentially be hit with import charges. Gonna be interesting.

I wonder how they'd manage ordering on-line and collecting in store in this instance, staff asking for excise would require the store to register as agents, or they just drop collecting in store?

sondagefaux

Another hassle for UK consumers due to Brexit.

TV streaming
UK TV streaming subscribers can no longer access live sport when in EU
Sky, Amazon, Netflix and BT Sport lose right to let UK viewers automatically watch all content after Brexit transition

Hilary Osborne and Miles Brignall
Sun 10 Jan 2021 11.08 EST

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/jan/10/uk-tv-streaming-sport-eu-sky-amazon-netflix-bt-sport

Professor Moriarty

Interesting discussion between Marr and Starmer this morning. In the context of what would happen if Labour won the next general election, this line from Starmer is eye-opening:

"I don’t think that there’s scope for major renegotiation. We’ve just had four years of negotiation. We’ve arrived at a treaty and now we’ve got to make that treaty work."

So there it is. Labour and the Tories are in agreement. This Brexit deal is going to shape Britain's future relationship with the EU.

ancapailldorcha

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Interesting discussion between Marr and Starmer this morning. In the context of what would happen if Labour won the next general election, this line from Starmer is eye-opening:

"I don’t think that there’s scope for major renegotiation. We’ve just had four years of negotiation. We’ve arrived at a treaty and now we’ve got to make that treaty work."

So there it is. Labour and the Tories are in agreement. This Brexit deal is going to shape Britain's future relationship with the EU.

That's one interpretation. Another is to wait and see how things pan out with the Conservative party being stuck with the blame for the damage.

You don't interrupt your enemy while he's making a mistake. There's nothing for Starmer to gain by stamping his foot about Erasmus, free movement or closer alignment. Let Johnson have his deal and bide your time until 2024.

lawred2

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Interesting discussion between Marr and Starmer this morning. In the context of what would happen if Labour won the next general election, this line from Starmer is eye-opening:

"I don’t think that there’s scope for major renegotiation. We’ve just had four years of negotiation. We’ve arrived at a treaty and now we’ve got to make that treaty work."

So there it is. Labour and the Tories are in agreement. This Brexit deal is going to shape Britain's future relationship with the EU.

You could hardly have expected otherwise really..

They are only 10 days into their new arrangements with the EU after 5 years of time wasting.

There is little appetite in the UK at this stage for going at it all again so soon you'd have to think.

I know I couldn't bear it.

Sam Russell

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Interesting discussion between Marr and Starmer this morning. In the context of what would happen if Labour won the next general election, this line from Starmer is eye-opening:

"I don’t think that there’s scope for major renegotiation. We’ve just had four years of negotiation. We’ve arrived at a treaty and now we’ve got to make that treaty work."

So there it is. Labour and the Tories are in agreement. This Brexit deal is going to shape Britain's future relationship with the EU.

I think that is Starmer leaving Brexit to the Tories. If he wins the next election, well then, we'll see.

Professor Moriarty

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That's one interpretation. Another is to wait and see how things pan out with the Conservative party being stuck with the blame for the damage.

You don't interrupt your enemy while he's making a mistake. There's nothing for Starmer to gain by stamping his foot about Erasmus, free movement or closer alignment. Let Johnson have his deal and bide your time until 2024.

So why didn't he say that? Why not say: We will certainly look to see how we can renegotiate this deal in a way that preserves sovereignty but allows our economy and society to gain from a better relationship with our neighbours. If I was a Labour-voting Remainer, to put it mildly, I would be very disillusioned with Labour hearing what he actually said. In fact, I'd be sick to my stomach.

Professor Moriarty

lawred2 wrote: »

You could hardly have expected otherwise really..

They are only 10 days into their new arrangements with the EU after 5 years of time wasting.

There is little appetite in the UK at this stage for going at it all again so soon you'd have to think.

I know I couldn't bear it.

Yes, but this was in the context of Starmer resiling on his commitment to FOM last year and in the context of what would Labour do in four years' time if they won the election.

Professor Moriarty

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think that is Starmer leaving Brexit to the Tories. If he wins the next election, well then, we'll see.

But all of this was said in response to actually being asked what would Labour do if they win in four years' time.

Sam Russell

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

But all of this was said in response to actually being asked what would Labour do if they win in four years' time.

But that is a hypothetical question and any answer, whatever it was, would be twisted ad would be used against him. It is four years before an election will be called, and any response will be used against him in the future. Better to just bat it away.