Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

sondagefaux

Slideways wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/11/dutch-officials-seize-ham-sandwiches-from-british-drivers?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other


Surely this borders on pettiness. I take great joy from seeing what the uk has done to itself but taking a truckies lunch off them is a bit too Jobsworth for me

Try forgetting that you've got a piece of fruit in your luggage when you arrive in New Zealand if you think the EU is bad. NZ$400 fine.

scorbles2 · 65 forum posts
Ubud, Indonesia
9 years ago
So I bought a couple of oranges in the airport before I departed for NZ and forgot about one so it was in my carry-on when I landed. It was a single orange. I understand the rules but also the $400 fine seems pretty harsh for such an obvious mistake. I'm not asking about the right-vs-wrong of bringing fruit into NZ (obviously it is wrong), I am just asking about the potential consequences of not paying such a fine?

Does anyone know the ramifications if I just ignore this? I am only in NZ for a week.

Thanks

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g255104-i125-k4958308-o170-400_Fine_For_Bringing_Fruit_To_NZ_Should_I_Pay-New_Zealand.html

Don't bring food across biosecurity borders without permission.

Sam Russell

ambro25 wrote: »

Something that is growing very annoying very quickly, is how the British MSM is currently portraying long-foretold, and now-unfurling, consequences of the hard Brexit pursued by the UK as 'news'.

This main BBC article about Brit immigrants in Spain is doing the retweeting rounds today.

Any hard-up British looking for a quick sale of their Spanish villa reading this post, feel free to enquire within.

Clearly the BBC have not been following this thread in all its iterations.

The article says it is time for the British immigrants to exchange their UK driving licences - surely that ship has sailed - well it has here. Now UK licence holders need to start with a provisional permit, and learn the rules of the road.

All of this was predicted years ago.

The only thing we got wrong was the queues of trucks at Dover - instead, the trucks are parked up at logistics depots all over the country - unwilling to move without the correct paperwork, that is of course not there.

Reports that NI is having to bring back empty trucks because the backfill loads are not available - perhaps more paperwork causing this.

Enzokk

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I wouldn't be an international jet-setter by any means, but coming back from a handful of trips to Asia or USA I've never seen those rules applied at Dublin airport. Wasn't even aware of them to be honest.
Clearly from timetogo1's post above it is an actual rule though.

A thought : Going forward should Dublin/Rosslare officials also be doing these checks/confiscations on people coming back from the UK?

Just to echo what others have said, if you have nothing worthy of inspection in your luggage you are unlikely to be stopped. But bring lots of food back when coming into Dublin your luggage is scanned and if they pick up any suspicious items you will be asked to open your bag. Bring back fresh food and you are breaking the rules. The fact that this is only now a realization for people is not an excuse for not having the rules enforced.

sondagefaux

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I wouldn't be an international jet-setter by any means, but coming back from a handful of trips to Asia or USA I've never seen those rules applied at Dublin airport. Wasn't even aware of them to be honest.
Clearly from timetogo1's post above it is an actual rule though.

A thought : Going forward should Dublin/Rosslare officials also be doing these checks/confiscations on people coming back from the UK?

If you forget you've got fruit in your luggage on arrival in New Zealand, you face a NZ$400 fine.

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowTopic-g255104-i125-k4958308-o170-400_Fine_For_Bringing_Fruit_To_NZ_Should_I_Pay-New_Zealand.html

The Irish authorities should be enforcing these rules now on all arrivals from Britain, ports and airports. The Common Travel Area applies to people, not goods.

Why is the Netherlands applying the EU food safety rules so rigourously?

For starters, because it's a global hub for the import of all sorts of products so has to be extra careful.

Secondly the spread of Foot & Mouth disease from Britain to the Netherlands cost it a fortune, over 270,000 farm animals had to be slaughtered to contain the outbreak.

sondagefaux

Sam Russell wrote: »

Clearly the BBC have not been following this thread in all its iterations.

The article says it is time for the British immigrants to exchange their UK driving licences - surely that ship has sailed - well it has here. Now UK licence holders need to start with a provisional permit, and learn the rules of the road.

All of this was predicted years ago.

The only thing we got wrong was the queues of trucks at Dover - instead, the trucks are parked up at logistics depots all over the country - unwilling to move without the correct paperwork, that is of course not there.

Reports that NI is having to bring back empty trucks because the backfill loads are not available - perhaps more paperwork causing this.

Ireland has signed a bilateral agreement with the UK. UK driving licenses can be swapped for Irish ones indefinitely.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/a8d16-bilateral-agreement-on-exchange-of-driving-licences-with-uk/#

sondagefaux

View wrote: »

Opinion polls can be a poor guide as to how people will actually vote on a referendum day.

Polls here at the start of the Nice I and Lisbon I referenda showed the Yes side having significant margins over the No side, yet both referenda were lost after a blizzard of misinformation, much of it recycled from previous referenda (so there is no excuse for people not knowing that it was BS).

Likewise, in the U.K. 2016 referendum, in the first two weeks of the campaign, when the focus was largely on economics, polls showed the Remain side in the lead, only for that to disappear as soon as the Leave side played the Immigration card in the last two weeks.

As such, isolated opinion polls cannot be regarded as being indicative of anything, particularly if they show majority support for a position confined to one social group but not another as that can’t be classified as “broad support” for the position.

You've completely missed my point. Never mind.

sondagefaux

More evidence that British food producers have failed to come to terms with being outside of the Single Market.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LBC/status/1348589701972844546

LuckyLloyd

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I think they've completely outmanoeuvred Labour and have painted them into a corner. Starmer is better than Corbyn but not a whole lot better it would seem.

How is he better? Because he looks better in a suit?

Sam Russell

sondagefaux wrote: »

Ireland has signed a bilateral agreement with the UK. UK driving licenses can be swapped for Irish ones indefinitely.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/a8d16-bilateral-agreement-on-exchange-of-driving-licences-with-uk/#

Yes, the UK licence can be exchanged, but it is not valid for driving by Irish residence - at least that is what the press release says.

So, if you are Irish resident and hold a UK driving licence you must exchange it asap.

However, for anyone in this situation who didn’t exchange their UK licence by the deadline, their UK licence will no longer be valid to drive here in Ireland, it is only valid for exchange purposes. It is imperative that it be exchanged immediately.

sondagefaux

Sam Russell wrote: »

Yes, the UK licence can be exchanged, but it is not valid for driving by Irish residence - at least that is what the press release says.

So, if you are Irish resident and hold a UK driving licence you must exchange it asap.

The point is that UK driving licenses can still be swapped for Irish ones.

It means that UK license holders who come to live in Ireland will not have to get learners' permits and do a driving test to get an Irish license as you claimed.

All they have to do is book an appointment and swap their UK licenses for Irish ones.

sondagefaux

Worth reading every word if you're interested in the effects of Brexit on Formula 1 and other motorsports, and much more...

Nor is it just motorsport which is going to be affected in this way. Music gigs have already been mentioned in this context, but show-jumping, cycle touring, film-making, exhibitions and many other activities – sporting and non-sporting will be caught in the net.

http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87850

An explanation of what the ATA Carnets featured in the above blog post are:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA_Carnet

Enzokk

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

How is he better? Because he looks better in a suit?

I don't know how voters in seats Labour needs feel, but if they see Starmer talking about reversing Brexit in 4 years when it has been all of 12 days since they left, he will risk losing them forever. Why allow yourself to be painted as trying to reverse Brexit now when in 4 years time when the next election comes around the effects of Brexit will do your work for you?

I mean we all seem to agree it will be terrible in 4 years time with the slow decline of the UK, so why the hand wringing about his words recently?

The more I think about it the better his words were. He is not saying anything about stopping or reversing Brexit. He is talking about the current deal that the Tories negotiated. So he is switching the responsibility to where it belongs and he is not allowing himself to be painted as trying to do anything right now in regards to Brexit. It seems more and more to me that he did the right thing by not allowing himself to be drawn on what he will do in 4 years time. He took the fuel out a potential fire.

Doesn't mean you have to like it, but taking a step back I see more downsides had he gone down the route of proclaiming that he will try to make a better deal in 4 years time. It would be interpreted as him trying to change the Brexit deal.

Padre_Pio

sondagefaux wrote: »

Worth reading every word if you're interested in the effects of Brexit on Formula 1 and other motorsports, and much more...

It may affect local racing teams, but larger teams should be well used to shipping equipment around the globe.

The date of British F1 may change, so it's not in the middle of the European tour, but apart from that, I wouldn't foresee too much difficulty.

Maybe I'm wrong?

Sam Russell

sondagefaux wrote: »

The point is that UK driving licenses can still be swapped for Irish ones.

It means that UK license holders who come to live in Ireland will not have to get learners' permits and do a driving test to get an Irish license as you claimed.

All they have to do is book an appointment and swap their UK licenses for Irish ones.

Well, the change in the rules of exchanging the licences was dated 31st Dec 2020. Up until then, it was as I posted. I am not on E. Ryan's mailing list.

CelticRambler

Padre_Pio wrote: »

It may affect local racing teams, but larger teams should be well used to shipping equipment around the globe.

The date of British F1 may change, so it's not in the middle of the European tour, but apart from that, I wouldn't foresee too much difficulty.

Maybe I'm wrong?

As with other sectors, yes, the Really Big Boys will have people who are used to handling these challenges, but those players make up only a fraction of the overall year-round activity. It's another slow-burning effect - in sport, the small British teams that compete in the EU to gain experience and exposure provide the pool of talent from which the mid-level teams build their presence, who go on to generate support for the major actors. If you cut the legs out from under the small teams, that will inevitably have a knock-on effect on the evolution of the sport.

And as the article points out, this applies to more than just F1, more than motorsport. This evening, I'll be doing an analysis on the effect this same "carnet carnage" is likely to have on a trad music festival held here in France, at which we have several UK instrument-makers. Each one would typically be carrying 5000 documentable items in their van, some destined to be sold, some destined to be used up, some for display and intended to be returned to the workshop in England ... but might get swapped/sold/re-purposed over the course of the four days of the festival. Covid will determine whether or not the event takes place this year, but Brexit is very likely to wipe most of our UK participants off the programme.

Hurrache

sondagefaux wrote: »

Worth reading every word if you're interested in the effects of Brexit on Formula 1 and other motorsports, and much more...

Apparently the UK turned down offers of visa free tours for musicians and bands etc by the EU for up to 90 days, despite the UK been lobbied for months about it. The reason believed to be is because the UK didn't want to make a reciprocal offer.

Padre_Pio

CelticRambler wrote: »

It's another slow-burning effect - in sport, the small British teams that compete in the EU to gain experience and exposure provide the pool of talent from which the mid-level teams build their presence, who go on to generate support for the major actors. If you cut the legs out from under the small teams, that will inevitably have a knock-on effect on the evolution of the sport.

Didn't think about that. Lewis Hamilton rose to fame off the back of his European Karting wins.
I wonder would it have happened if he faced the Brexit bureaucracy.

ambro25

sondagefaux wrote: »

The point is that UK driving licenses can still be swapped for Irish ones.

It means that UK license holders who come to live in Ireland will not have to get learners' permits and do a driving test to get an Irish license as you claimed.

All they have to do is book an appointment and swap their UK licenses for Irish ones.

This valid-for-exchange arrangement is available for British residents in most (all?) EU27 member states under the WA and associated deadline, AFAIK.

My wife recently swapped her British driving license for a Luxembourgish one under that same requirement (it had only been 'registered' with LU authorities before then, wherein outright exchanging remains optional for EU27 residents).

lawred2

ambro25 wrote: »

This valid-for-exchange arrangement is available for British residents in most (all?) EU27 member states under the WA and associated deadline, AFAIK.

My wife recently swapped her British driving license for a Luxembourgish one under that same requirement (it had only been 'registered' with LU authorities before then, wherein outright exchanging remains optional for EU27 residents).

WA is passed now no?

sondagefaux

Padre_Pio wrote: »

It may affect local racing teams, but larger teams should be well used to shipping equipment around the globe.

The date of British F1 may change, so it's not in the middle of the European tour, but apart from that, I wouldn't foresee too much difficulty.

Maybe I'm wrong?

Perhaps you didn't read every word?

sondagefaux

ambro25 wrote: »

This valid-for-exchange arrangement is available for British residents in most (all?) EU27 member states under the WA and associated deadline, AFAIK.

My wife recently swapped her British driving license for a Luxembourgish one under that same requirement (it had only been 'registered' with LU authorities before then, wherein outright exchanging remains optional for EU27 residents).

Sam said that the deadline for UK licenses to be swapped for Irish licenses had passed and that UK license holders who wanted an Irish driving license would have to pass an Irish driving test.

I provided a link to the Irish government's web page about the bilateral agreement between Ireland and the UK which permits UK license holders to exchange their licences for Irish ones indefinitely.

I have made no claims about the situation in other EU countries.

As far as the Withdrawal Agreement is concerned, the deadline was 31st December 2020. That deadline has obviously passed

That doesn't mean individual EU states may have unilaterally extended their deadlines or signed agreements with the UK, as Ireland has done.

I have no knowledge of any such extensions or other agreements apart from the one with Ireland.

schmoo2k

sondagefaux wrote: »

Sam said that the deadline for UK licenses to be swapped for Irish licenses had passed and that UK license holders who wanted an Irish driving license would have to pass an Irish driving test.

I provided a link to the Irish government's web page about the bilateral agreement between Ireland and the UK which permits UK license holders to exchange their licences for Irish ones indefinitely.

I have made no claims about the situation in other EU countries.

As far as the Withdrawal Agreement is concerned, the deadline was 31st December 2020. That deadline has obviously passed

That doesn't mean individual EU states may have unilaterally extended their deadlines or signed agreements with the UK, as Ireland has done.

I have no knowledge of any such extensions or other agreements apart from the one with Ireland.

Here is a list of non EU countries that can swap:

If it was issued by a country that is outside the EU or EEA, you can apply to exchange it for an Irish licence if your licence was issued by:

Australia
Canada (but not from all provinces – see note below)
Gibraltar
Guernsey
Isle of Man
Japan
Jersey
South Africa
Republic of Korea (South Korea)
Switzerland
New Zealand
Taiwan

To be fair if Gibraltar, Jersey and the Isle of Man can exchange theirs, then no reason the UK couldn't get added to the list above?

listermint

schmoo2k wrote: »

Here is a list of non EU countries that can swap:


To be fair if Gibraltar, Jersey and the Isle of Man can exchange theirs, then no reason the UK couldn't get added to the list above?

Anything can be agreed as such but it's a matter of agreeing.

That's how deals are made..

schmoo2k

listermint wrote: »

Anything can be agreed as such but it's a matter of agreeing.

That's how deals are made..

True and down the old TODO list I suspect.

ambro25

ambro25 wrote: »

This valid-for-exchange arrangement is available for British residents in most (all?) EU27 member states under the WA and associated deadline, AFAIK.

My wife recently swapped her British driving license for a Luxembourgish one under that same requirement (it had only been 'registered' with LU authorities before then, wherein outright exchanging remains optional for EU27 residents).

lawred2 wrote: »

WA is passed now no?

Its effects endure, and they are not restricted to the Protocol applicable to NI. The deadline to qualify for continuing rights was 'in the country by 31 Dec 20', but the deadline for the admin side extends into June/July 2021 in many EU member states, as it does in the UK for EU27 applying for settled status.

Exchanging driving licenses (and a myriad further admin headaches of the sort, e.g. professional quals recognition) falls into that same context and timescales, all to be sorted out at the "intersection" of the WA and each EU member state's respective legislation about 3rd party nationals.

ambro25

sondagefaux wrote: »

Sam said that the deadline for UK licenses to be swapped for Irish licenses had passed and that UK license holders who wanted an Irish driving license would have to pass an Irish driving test.

I provided a link to the Irish government's web page about the bilateral agreement between Ireland and the UK which permits UK license holders to exchange their licences for Irish ones indefinitely.

I have made no claims about the situation in other EU countries.

As far as the Withdrawal Agreement is concerned, the deadline was 31st December 2020. That deadline has obviously passed

That doesn't mean individual EU states may have unilaterally extended their deadlines or signed agreements with the UK, as Ireland has done.

I have no knowledge of any such extensions or other agreements apart from the one with Ireland.

Just to be clear here, my comment was in passing for extra context, and absolutely not meant to take you to task on things that you posted and/or did not.

Leroy42

As each day goes by the complete insanity of not seeking an extension to the the roll out of any new agreement is laid bare as almost criminal.

The previous 'transition' was nothing, since nothing actually changed. But to expect that things could be done smoothly with only a few days notice was reckless.

ArmaniJeanss

Leroy42 wrote: »

As each day goes by the complete insanity of not seeking an extension to the the roll out of any new agreement is laid bare as almost criminal.

The previous 'transition' was nothing, since nothing actually changed. But to expect that things could be done smoothly with only a few days notice was reckless.

I think there's enough evidence to suggest that a delay of X months would just have led to X more months of 'it'll be grand', 'they need us more', 'nothing much will actually change' etc with absolutely nothing getting done on the UK side & businesses making no preparation.
And we would just have ended up exactly where we are now after those X months.

yagan

Leroy42 wrote: »

As each day goes by the complete insanity of not seeking an extension to the the roll out of any new agreement is laid bare as almost criminal.

The previous 'transition' was nothing, since nothing actually changed. But to expect that things could be done smoothly with only a few days notice was reckless.

They were never going to be ready for Brexit as they never had a vision beyond fantasies for it.

LuckyLloyd

Enzokk wrote: »

I don't know how voters in seats Labour needs feel, but if they see Starmer talking about reversing Brexit in 4 years when it has been all of 12 days since they left, he will risk losing them forever. Why allow yourself to be painted as trying to reverse Brexit now when in 4 years time when the next election comes around the effects of Brexit will do your work for you?

I mean we all seem to agree it will be terrible in 4 years time with the slow decline of the UK, so why the hand wringing about his words recently?

The more I think about it the better his words were. He is not saying anything about stopping or reversing Brexit. He is talking about the current deal that the Tories negotiated. So he is switching the responsibility to where it belongs and he is not allowing himself to be painted as trying to do anything right now in regards to Brexit. It seems more and more to me that he did the right thing by not allowing himself to be drawn on what he will do in 4 years time. He took the fuel out a potential fire.

Doesn't mean you have to like it, but taking a step back I see more downsides had he gone down the route of proclaiming that he will try to make a better deal in 4 years time. It would be interpreted as him trying to change the Brexit deal.

Seems to me those who invested a lot over the past few years in Blairism wresting control of the Labour Party back from Momentum will always find an excuse not to oppose the Conservatives in any fundamental way. Starmer had 9 months to formulate an opposition on Brexit. Moving Labour to a full on Brexit supporting party is absolutely ridiculous.