Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

BonnieSituation

Dymo wrote: »

Not totally true he won European elections

UK Parliament elections
1994 by-election Not elected
1997 general election Not elected
2001 general election Not elected
2005 general election Not elected
2006 by-election Not elected
2010 general election Not elected
2015 general election Not elected

European Parliament elections
1994 European election Not elected
1999 European election Elected
2004 European election Elected
2009 European election Elected
2014 European election Elected
2019 European election Elected

Only because of the List system in place. No way would he have been elected if he stood in a constituency constructed like ours are.

Quin_Dub

Dymo wrote: »

Not totally true he won European elections

UK Parliament elections
1994 by-election Not elected
1997 general election Not elected
2001 general election Not elected
2005 general election Not elected
2006 by-election Not elected
2010 general election Not elected
2015 general election Not elected

European Parliament elections
1994 European election Not elected
1999 European election Elected
2004 European election Elected
2009 European election Elected
2014 European election Elected
2019 European election Elected

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Only because of the List system in place. No way would he have been elected if he stood in a constituency constructed like ours are.

Exactly - His name wasn't on the ballot for the European Parliament.

The ballots in the UK just listed the party name.

yagan

M&S closing their Chechia outlet citing Covid restrictions which do seem to affect other retailers there.

Until now, Marks and Spencer has only been operating its food sections, which could operate as they were selling essential supplies. However, these too have become depleted due to import and export issues resulting from Britain’s recent exit from the European Union.

Was in a local Tesco earlier and all their meat and veg products were well stocked but solely Irish supplied, whereas their prepacked ready meals shelves were empty.

RobMc59

yagan wrote: »

M&S closing their Chechia outlet citing Covid restrictions which do seem to affect other retailers there.


Was in a local Tesco earlier and all their meat and veg products were well stocked but solely Irish supplied, whereas their prepacked ready meals shelves were empty.

Thats the good thing about tesco,I noticed the same thing in tesco branches in letterkenny,derry and North Wales, they seem to stock local produce which suit's everyone I think.

A Dub in Glasgo

Johnson treating Scottish concerns about Brexit with utter contempt today

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1349337263805788161

sondagefaux

CelticRambler wrote: »

The same could be said about the British Right. The problem is with the political system (FPTP), not either party. Just look at current administration - all those on the right who would have compromised or taken a centrist stance have been purged, from within prior to the last election, or by the voters when they stood up to be counted.

Again I would say that the very fact that we, on this thread, have nothing better/more dramatic to discuss this week, than good ol' Labour vs. Tory headbutting means that Johnson's gamble paid off: Brexit is done and the sky didn't fall on anyone's head (or at least not that anyone other than a few truckers and Scottish fishermen and eel-exporters would notice).

In a way, it's almost reassuring (almost) that this thread has morphed into a tangent of the British Politics thread while the exciting stuff has now moved to the Ireland in the Single Market thread, and maybe the Scottish Independence thread. I reckon that's a perfect metaphor for the post-Brexit Britain - the rest of Europe getting on without them, the Scots making a concerted effort to plough their own furrow, and the English noisily squabbling amongst each other to no great effect.

So apart from the minor detail that the British state might not exist in a few years, Brexit isn't an issue in British politics?

Truly awesome take!

sondagefaux

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Johnson treating Scottish concerns about Brexit with utter contempt today

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1349337263805788161

The Tories are going to be as gutted as a fish in Scotland if this carries on.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1349381418804195328

Lemming

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Johnson treating Scottish concerns about Brexit with utter contempt today

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1349337263805788161

Those responses from the blonde blob ... Jesus, that was something else to have the misfortune of watching. There's contempt and then there's contempt; he didn't even bother trying to dress it up and I'm [not?] surprised that the speaker didn't censure him for showing contempt for parliamentary proceedings.

As I've said earlier, the SNP don't need to do anything - the Tories are the gift that keeps on giving regards building a case/popular support for independence. An inanimate carbon rod could have mounted a better response.

Headshot

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Johnson treating Scottish concerns about Brexit with utter contempt today

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1349337263805788161

Absolute disgraceful by BJ but not surprising because he cannot answer Ian Blackford's questions and just tries to change the subject.

BJ is really a nasty piece of work and I look very much forward to the day when he gets his just deserts like his best friend Trump

sondagefaux

Lemming wrote: »

Those responses from the blonde blob ... Jesus, that was something else to have the misfortune of watching. There's contempt and then there's contempt; he didn't even bother trying to dress it up and I'm [not?] surprised that the speaker didn't censure him for showing contempt for parliamentary proceedings.

As I've said earlier, the SNP don't need to do anything - the Tories are the gift that keeps on giving regards building a case/popular support for independence. An inanimate carbon rod could have mounted a better response.

This is basically a party political broadcast on behalf of the SNP.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1349381418804195328

eire4

Lemming wrote: »

Those responses from the blonde blob ... Jesus, that was something else to have the misfortune of watching. There's contempt and then there's contempt; he didn't even bother trying to dress it up and I'm [not?] surprised that the speaker didn't censure him for showing contempt for parliamentary proceedings.

As I've said earlier, the SNP don't need to do anything - the Tories are the gift that keeps on giving regards building a case/popular support for independence. An inanimate carbon rod could have mounted a better response.

We are only 2 weeks into the reality of brexit and at this rate and with responses like this from London I can see an SNP landslide coming in May.

Fr Tod Umptious

sondagefaux wrote: »

The Tories are going to be as gutted as a fish in Scotland if this carries on.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LochfyneLangous/status/1349381418804195328

Scottish fishermen supported Brexit

Now it's not working out for them

Are we supposed to have sympathy for them and not for their English counterparts ?*

Seriously , f**K them, they got what's coming to them.


*Not specifically directed at the poster I quoted.

sondagefaux

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Scottish fishermen supported Brexit

Now it's not working out for them

Are we supposed to have sympathy for them and not for their English counterparts ?*

Seriously , f**K them, they got what's coming to them.


*Not specifically directed at the poster I quoted.

I don't have any sympathy for them either.

But that's not the point.

They used to be one of the most anti-independence sectors of the Scottish electorate.

Listen to the rage against the 'Wesrminster government' and the support for the SNP in this guy's video.

Their political allegiances are changing rapidly...

Enzokk

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Scottish fishermen supported Brexit

Now it's not working out for them

Are we supposed to have sympathy for them and not for their English counterparts ?*

Seriously , f**K them, they got what's coming to them.


*Not specifically directed at the poster I quoted.

James O'Brien's words are appropriate here, "compassion for the conned, contempt for the conmen." These people were lied to again and again and were told repeatedly that there are only upsides to Brexit and there will not be any problems if they left. Sure, they should have known better but there is a reason why conmen are still prospering in the world. It is easy to fall for a scam, and that is what Brexit will always be.

Fr Tod Umptious

Enzokk wrote: »

James O'Brien's words are appropriate here, "compassion for the conned, contempt for the conmen." These people were lied to again and again and were told repeatedly that there are only upsides to Brexit and there will not be any problems if they left. Sure, they should have known better but there is a reason why conmen are still prospering in the world. It is easy to fall for a scam, and that is what Brexit will always be.

But see very little sympathy for the English people here who supported Brexit.

The term "Little Englanders", that they want to get rid of "Johnny Foreigner" assertions that they are xenophobic, racists etc etc are common here.

But suddenly when it the Scots who supported Brexit we are talking about we need to have sympathy for them ?

sondagefaux

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Lochfyne Seafoods did not support Brexit. In fact, most of the processors and in shore fishing in Scotland did not support Breixt. The ones that did are the Tory families who run some of the major fishing out of Peterhead and the rest of Aberdeenshire. That is why every time a Tory came to Scotland to discuss fishing they went to Peterhead

The majority of people in Scotland did not support Brexit

Another example of how carelessly the UK government has dealt with Brexit.

Fishing minister Victoria Prentis, appearing before a House of Lords committee, admitted “things are tricky at the moment” but said her team is “working hard” to resolve issues as they arose.

During her appearance Ms Prentis raised eyebrows by telling peers she did not read the fisheries deal when it was published on Christmas Eve because she was “very busy organising the local Nativity trail”.

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/scotland/brexit-fisheries-minister-did-not-read-deal-as-she-was-very-busy-organising-local-nativity-trail/

sondagefaux

One of the largest freight companies in Europe, DB Schenker, has emailed customers to say it has suspended transport goods by truck between the UK and continental Europe 'until further notice'.

Dear Customer,
We are currently forced to temporarily suspend international land transport services from continental Europe to the UK with Immediate effect.
The arrangements agreed under the Brexit deal have meant enormous bureaucratic regulations, particularly for recipients in the UK, which they are currently unable to handle In a legally compliant manner. Most of the recipients (Importers or Consignee’s) In the UK have never dealt with customs procedures before, and need further guidance on the new regulations (e.g. the confirmation of the correct ten-digit commodity codes, providing Power of Attorney).
Therefore, we need to advise you to postpone all shipments until further notice.

https://postandparcel.info/131462/news/freight/db-schenker-suspends-international-land-transport-services-from-continental-europe-to-the-uk/

RobMc59

Enzokk wrote: »

Not sure what you are trying to say here. Are there different tables at the EU? Which table are we at? Will a similarly sized Scotland not be at the same table? There is one table and all EU nations sit around it. Scotland will take the seat left vacant by the UK if the SNP gets their way. Really unsure what you are trying to show.





Not the right thread. Not sure how a map showing the UK in green when they have had a head start in vaccinations is a way to prove a point.

The UK had a head start because they took it upon themselves to clear the vaccine for use whilst the majority of EU nations sat round waiting for the ok from Brussels,except Germany as kermit pointed out who ,along with France do as they please.
Do you refuse to acknowledge there is a hierarchy within the EU with Germany and France at the top?

CelticRambler

sondagefaux wrote: »

So apart from the minor detail that the British state might not exist in a few years, Brexit isn't an issue in British politics?

Truly awesome take!

If today's British papers (website versions) are anything to go by, that's exactly what I'm saying:
The Times (politics section) - one story amongst dozens, and way down the page: "Brexit challenges will transform City, says Sunak"
The Telegraph (politics section) - one story amongst dozens, and way down the page: "Speeding British drivers to evade fines in Europe after Brexit"
The Independent (UK politics section) - one story amongs dozens, and way down the page (seeing a pattern here?): "Boris Johnson dismisses post-Brexit food supply chaos in Northern Ireland as ‘teething problems’"
The Daily Mail (no politics section ): no Brexit story (or at least not as far as scrolled before my eyes started bleeding from CAPS-LOCK assault)

So yes, I would maintain my assertion that the Tories/ERG/Brexit Party have hit the jackpot with Covid happening alongside Brexit. The people who wanted Brexit "done" because they didn't want to hear any more about it on the news voted for the party that promised to get it off the front pages, and Johnson has done just that.

The majority of those voters are going to be at least one step removed from the direct impact of Brexit, so they are not going to put it back on the political agenda; and in this age of focus-group reactionary politics, it's going to be very difficult for any other party to get it back onto the front pages.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: We have a whole forum for covid matters. Off topic posts deleted.

Padre_Pio

Is there an end date in sight for this customs malarkey?

I presume it's just a case of businesses figuring out what docs they need and how to organise shipments?

sondagefaux

CelticRambler wrote: »

If today's British papers (website versions) are anything to go by, that's exactly what I'm saying:
The Times (politics section) - one story amongst dozens, and way down the page: "Brexit challenges will transform City, says Sunak"
The Telegraph (politics section) - one story amongst dozens, and way down the page: "Speeding British drivers to evade fines in Europe after Brexit"
The Independent (UK politics section) - one story amongs dozens, and way down the page (seeing a pattern here?): "Boris Johnson dismisses post-Brexit food supply chaos in Northern Ireland as ‘teething problems’"
The Daily Mail (no politics section ): no Brexit story (or at least not as far as scrolled before my eyes started bleeding from CAPS-LOCK assault)

So yes, I would maintain my assertion that the Tories/ERG/Brexit Party have hit the jackpot with Covid happening alongside Brexit. The people who wanted Brexit "done" because they didn't want to hear any more about it on the news voted for the party that promised to get it off the front pages, and Johnson has done just that.

The majority of those voters are going to be at least one step removed from the direct impact of Brexit, so they are not going to put it back on the political agenda; and in this age of focus-group reactionary politics, it's going to be very difficult for any other party to get it back onto the front pages.

I think they might notice the break-up of the British state though... Could possibly make headlines if Scotland leaves the UK.

An Ciarraioch

DB Schenker, a German logistics company, temporarily halts deliveries to the UK.

tubercolossus

RobMc59 wrote: »

Do you refuse to acknowledge there is a hierarchy within the EU with Germany and France at the top?

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

it's complete folly for Irish people to support an independent Scotland in the EU.
Scotland will be a competitor to Ireland in the EU, not some sort of a friend.

It's an article of faith among Brexiters and anti-EUers in general, that France and Germany run the EU and ride roughshod over the other member states. "Leo bends the knee to Angela and Macron" yada yada. And yes, of course those two huge populations/economies exert a gravitational effect, of course they do. But the EU is specifically constructed so that each member has an equal say and an equal vote. But because of that gravitational effect, the smaller member states tend to band together against the big guns. So Scotland, far from being "a competitor to Ireland", if that were even possible within the CU/SM, would be a natural ally to us. Same language, similar culture/population.

sondagefaux

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Is there an end date in sight for this customs malarkey?

I presume it's just a case of businesses figuring out what docs they need and how to organise shipments?

No, there's no end date. It's the new reality. Even if all paperwork is in order, there will be constant queues as traffic levels move back to normal.

It's a constant feature on all borders between EU and non-EU neighbours.

Take a look at @donnyc1975's twitter feed.

And it's already happening in Kent, on the M20, the main road route to linking to Dover and the Channel Tunnel.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrDavidCatt1/status/1349411277739855872

bob mcbob

sondagefaux wrote: »

No, there's no end date. It's the new reality. Even if all paperwork is in order, there will be constant queues as traffic levels move back to normal.

It's a constant feature on all borders between EU and non-EU neighbours.

Take a look at @donnyc1975's twitter feed.

And it's already happening in Kent, on the M20, the main road route to linking to Dover and the Channel Tunnel.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrDavidCatt1/status/1349411277739855872

Apparently part of the problems are to do with a new system (untried and untested) which went live 2 weeks ago on the 28th Dec. This takes incompetence to whole new levels.

Jimmy Buchan, the chief executive of the Scottish Seafood Association, told the Guardian the problems were partly caused by the “untried and untested” new IT system, which went live on 28 December when the industry was on holiday. “We were thrown in at the deep end. We’ve had two years to prepare for this and government are standing back and saying: ‘This is what you wished for.’”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/13/fresh-seafood-exports-scotland-eu-halted-fishing-brexit

listermint

bob mcbob wrote: »

Apparently part of the problems are to do with a new system (untried and untested) which went live 2 weeks ago on the 28th Dec. This takes incompetence to whole new levels.

Jimmy Buchan, the chief executive of the Scottish Seafood Association, told the Guardian the problems were partly caused by the “untried and untested” new IT system, which went live on 28 December when the industry was on holiday. “We were thrown in at the deep end. We’ve had two years to prepare for this and government are standing back and saying: ‘This is what you wished for.’”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/13/fresh-seafood-exports-scotland-eu-halted-fishing-brexit

It's nothing to do with that any everything to do with the fishing industries lack of understanding of what a trade deal would mean.

They wanted out of CU and SM yet were not briefed on what paperwork they'd need after it....

Nothing to do with IT system. This is all on the fishermen themselves.

embraer170

sondagefaux wrote: »

Another example of how carelessly the UK government has dealt with Brexit.



https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/scotland/brexit-fisheries-minister-did-not-read-deal-as-she-was-very-busy-organising-local-nativity-trail/

Sounds like something out of a comedy piece.

sondagefaux

listermint wrote: »

It's nothing to do with that any everything to do with the fishing industries lack of understanding of what a trade deal would mean.

They wanted out of CU and SM yet were not briefed on what paperwork they'd need after it....

Nothing to do with IT system. This is all on the fishermen themselves.

Indeed. Jimmy Buchan is one of the most prominent members of the Scottish Fishermens Federation (despite the name, only represents a minority) and was very vocal in his calls for Brexit.

fly_agaric

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Is there an end date in sight for this customs malarkey?

I presume it's just a case of businesses figuring out what docs they need and how to organise shipments?

Am sure businesses will learn and get better at doing it + organise themselves to minimise it, but it (Customs bureaucracy/paperwork and goods checks) is a permanent feature of life post-Brexit that will hamper all UK trade with the EU (and vice versa) and increase costs/slow things down.

Never going away unless UK rejoins the single market & Customs union.

Will get worse (and cause us here in Ireland more trouble too) if the UK diverges very strongly from the EU in the years to come.