Brexit discussion thread XIII (Please read OP before posting)

The Raging Bile Duct

sondagefaux wrote: »

Canadian beef exporters have been largely geared towards supplying the US market. The requirements for the US market are radically different to the requirements for the EU market.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ceta-beef-export-canada-europe-not-what-was-expected-1.5312594

British producers have been producing within the EU system for decades. Despite that, the requirements for exporting as a third country are clearly hitting them very hard.

Life outside the Single Market is tough for exporters to the EU.

But the UK Food Industry were told that red tape was going to end after Brexit, I'm truly baffled.

https://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Article/2017/01/05/Food-industry-red-tape-to-be-halted-after-Brexit

Unless they meant that red tape was going to end because they were going to go out of business...

prawnsambo

sondagefaux wrote: »

Brits in Spain worrying about cheddar imports being too difficult.

https://www.thelocal.es/20210114/opinion-sue-wilson-spain-brexit-eu-imports-cheese

Not to worry lads. There's plenty of Irish-made cheddar for ye to enjoy.

Biggest export market for Irish cheddar is actually GB. So it's not even as though they'd have to get used to something different.

The Raging Bile Duct

sondagefaux wrote: »

Brits in Spain worrying about cheddar imports being too difficult.

https://www.thelocal.es/20210114/opinion-sue-wilson-spain-brexit-eu-imports-cheese

Not to worry lads. There's plenty of Irish-made cheddar for ye to enjoy.

'You can take our freedom of movement but you can never take our chedd... wait, what? Seriously?!?! Ah, now... this is going too far. It's just not cricket!'

An Ciarraioch

Interestingly, the Irish government's analysis of the impact of the fishing deal mentions Rockall haddock and cod quotas, so seems Scotland doesn't have a leg to stand on:

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/21e48-analysis-of-reduction-of-fisheries-quota-shares-under-euuk-trade-and-cooperation-agreement/

sondagefaux

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

'You can take our freedom of movement but you can never take our chedd... wait, what? Seriously?!?! Ah, now... this is going too far. It's just not cricket!'

In future, British pubs on the Costas will staffed by Irish people serving 'Full English Breakfasts' made with Irish sausages, bacon and black pudding. Sky Sports won't be available* so they'll show live GAA matches on Eir Sport instead. Definitely not cricket!

Lunch menus will include gammon with chips (on their shoulders).

*https://www.sky.com/help/articles/viewing-sky-content-in-the-eu-faqs

sondagefaux

The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »

But the UK Food Industry were told that red tape was going to end after Brexit, I'm truly baffled.

https://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Article/2017/01/05/Food-industry-red-tape-to-be-halted-after-Brexit

Unless they meant that red tape was going to end because they were going to go out of business...

You'd have to be as thick as pigshít to believe that crap.

ancapailldorcha

sondagefaux wrote: »

You'd have to be as thick as pigshít to believe that crap.

The thing that irks me about this sort of thing is that surely each industry has its own publication, journal or something that would inform those who work in it with analysis and projects bespoke to that industry and not based on opinion pieces in the red tops.

sondagefaux

forgottenhills wrote: »

Well hopefully Irish exporters can start picking up some of these opportunities and get embedded with new customers, particularly as all such opportunities may not last for ever.

Exports of meat products (including bacon, sausage, black pudding) from Britain to Spain and the rest of the EU and other food exports, especially products of animal origin (meat, fish, poultry, dairy, eggs) have become far more difficult.

There are huge opportunities for Irish producers and NI producers to take over from British producers in agri-foods and many other sectors, including services.

The British have effectively imposed sanctions on their exports to the EU in goods and services.

It's the most idiotic self-inflicted harm that any country has carried out.

sondagefaux

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Similarly, the British pork sector is blaming the Commission for being "over-zealous" in checking exports:

https://www.foodandfarmingfutures.co.uk/PrestoMobile#/details/ZWVhNzBlY2QtZWJjNi00YWZiLWE1MTAtNWExOTFiMjJjOWU1LjI1MDI2

Aleady posted and discussed in thread. The whining is head-spinning.

sondagefaux

RobMc59 wrote: »

Until the UK gets its act together and looks into the system used by Switzerland which another poster mentioned yesterday it seems these delays will remain. It remains to be seen to what extent they can be streamlined although i do remember you commenting about delays at the Swiss border some time ago (despite Switzerland being quite on the ball)

There are constant delays on the borders between Switzerland and the EU.

As I ('another poster') already said to you, no amount of efficiency makes up for being outside the EU.

Delays are inevitable no matter how well the systems are implemented.

joeysoap

sondagefaux wrote: »

Brits in Spain worrying about cheddar imports being too difficult.

https://www.thelocal.es/20210114/opinion-sue-wilson-spain-brexit-eu-imports-cheese

Not to worry lads. There's plenty of Irish-made cheddar for ye to enjoy.

Pilgrims choice? Quote from the piece

While I regret this situation, I can live with buying my favourite British foods here at a premium, or savouring them when I visit England. I might be hooked on my Pilgrim’s Choice Vintage or Davidstow Cornish Cheddar, but I’d swap them in a second for my freedom of movement. I might be a cheese addict, but I’m not completely bonkers!

Pilgrims Choice is a cheese brand owned by Irish dairy exporter Ornua, with UK operations based in Wincanton, Somerset, England. Despite an Identification Code of UK LK002, Pilgrims Choice is substantially sourced from Irish-produced cheese.

Might have change that code back to an Irish one

sondagefaux

RobMc59 wrote: »

No,I retract nothing,allowing embarkation without the correct paperwork is cutting corners.I understand Ireland is doing this to help alleviate a situation caused by British hauliers being unprepared but they aren't doing it to help them,Ireland is doing it in its own interests.

It's not a breach of any rule. The EU rules require the relevant documentation to be presented on arrival, not during transit. If goods aren't sccompanied by the reauired on arrival they cannot be released into free circulation.

A ferry from Britain to Ireland takes several hours to arrive, plenty of time for the relevant documentation to be made available.

Goods which still don't have required documentation on arrival are not allowed to leave the ports until it is made available. This meets the requirements of EU law not to permit such goods into free circulation.

sondagefaux

Leroy42 wrote: »

What you are failing to understand is that any concerns were waved away as Project Fear. Brexit had no downsides, they need us more than we need them.

In terms of fishing, all that was going to happen was that Scottish fishermen would get sole access to Uk fishing waters. The Spanish, French etc would be kicked out, leaving massive increased capacity to the UK fishermen to catch and then sell.

There would be no barriers, no issues. A simply taking back control, it was nothing but positive.

Place yourself into a fishermans position. He has seen foreign vessels take the vast majority of quotas for years, leaving them with basic levels of income. Along comes the Brexit movement promising that al that will be sorted, and that you will now have the ability, no the right, to catch as much as you want and sell it all. Imagine the profits. Imagine the new boats. Finally my kids will want to stay in the industry. The port will boom.

That is the lie that they were voting under. Once you understand how they were manipulated it is actually very understandable why they opted for BRexit.

Nah.

These people were warned time and time again that being outside the EU, being outside the Single Market, being outside a customs union, would make it incredibly difficult to sell their fish into the EU.

Their greed got the better of them.

They were active participants in the Leave campaign, not passive dupes.

The EU Commission has published dozens of Notices To Stakeholders setting out in great detail the consequences of Brexit outside the SM and CU, aimed at specific sectors, including the UK fishing industry.



You won't find these on any of these on any of the UK fishing sector's websites, because they were completely ignored by them.

These people are adults (at least in age) so their 'a big boy made me do it' excuses are a sign of irresponsible immaturity

What responsible self-employed person or employer would fail to at least check what being outside the SM/CU might mean for 80% of sales?

If 80% of your sales were to the EU wouldn't you at least have checked what rules would apply from outside the EU before you made a decision?

Either people who sold 80% of their products to the EU were grossly irresponsible or especially stupid to vote for Brexit.

Claiming they fell for pie-in-the-sky nonsense suggests you believe the latter.

FrancieBrady

sondagefaux wrote: »

It's not a breach of any rule. The EU rules require the relevant documentation to be presented on arrival, not during transit. If goods aren't sccompanied by the reauired on arrival they cannot be released into free circulation.

A ferry from Britain to Ireland takes several hours to arrive, plenty of time for the relevant documentation to be made available.

Goods which still don't have required documentation on arrival are not allowed to leave the ports until it is made available. This meets the requirements of EU law not to permit such goods into free circulation.

Fairly simple test...do the goods pass the point of entry? As has been said over and over, the answer is no they don't.

sondagefaux

Why does this woman dislike her grandchildren so much?



https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1183363/brexit-news-no-deal-boris-johnson-wales-fisheries-nerys-edwards-syren-shellfish/



https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-wales-politics-55631622

Leroy42

sondagefaux wrote: »

Nah.

These people were warned time and time again that being outside the EU, being outside the Single Market, being outside a customs union, would make it incredibly difficult to sell their fish into the EU.

Their greed got the better of them.

They were active participants in the Leave campaign, not passive dupes.

The EU Commission has published dozens of Notices To Stakeholders setting out in great detail the consequences of Brexit outside the SM and CU, aimed at specific sectors, including the UK fishing industry.

You won't find these on any of these on any of the UK fishing sector's websites, because they were completely ignored by them.

These people are adults (at least in age) so their 'a big boy made me do it' excuses are a sign of irresponsible immaturity

What responsible self-employed person or employer would fail to at least check what being outside the SM/CU might mean for 80% of sales?

If 80% of your sales were to the EU wouldn't you at least have checked what rules would apply from outside the EU before you made a decision?

Either people who sold 80% of their products to the EU were grossly irresponsible or especially stupid to vote for Brexit.

Claiming they fell for pie-in-the-sky nonsense suggests you believe the latter.

But they were led to believe that Cameron had basically given in to Brussels, same with TM. It was all simply that the UK needed to stand up for itself. As soon as they vote to leave, which then became as soon as the triggered A50, which then became as soon as we threaten to walk away, which then became the 11th hour nonsense. As soon as that happened the EU would crumble and the UK would have direct, free, and unfettered access to the EU SM whilst taking back control.

It was, and still is, down to UK arrogance that everyone needed them so much that faced with losing them the EU would give them whatever they wanted.

The warnings you talk about were made by EU types, anti-UK types, or simply Project Fear. 'Of course they are going to say Brexit is a bad idea, they want to keep us chained to the EU so they can continue to take all our money and control ius'

And as we saw throughout the ref and since, trying to argue against that is easily knocked back by a combination of calls to believe in Britain together with not being able to prove it as it hasn't happened.

sondagefaux

Leroy42 wrote: »

But they were led to believe that Cameron had basically given in to Brussels, same with TM. It was all simply that the UK needed to stand up for itself. As soon as they vote to leave, which then became as soon as the triggered A50, which then became as soon as we threaten to walk away, which then became the 11th hour nonsense. As soon as that happened the EU would crumble and the UK would have direct, free, and unfettered access to the EU SM whilst taking back control.

It was, and still is, down to UK arrogance that everyone needed them so much that faced with losing them the EU would give them whatever they wanted.

The warnings you talk about were made by EU types, anti-UK types, or simply Project Fear. 'Of course they are going to say Brexit is a bad idea, they want to keep us chained to the EU so they can continue to take all our money and control ius'

And as we saw throughout the ref and since, trying to argue against that is easily knocked back by a combination of calls to believe in Britain together with not being able to prove it as it hasn't happened.

Fishermen, fish wholesalers and exporters, fish processors in the UK almost uniformly believed that leaving the EU would be fantastic for them.

Who led them to this belief?

Their own fishing organisations, the membership of which is themselves!

The fishing organisations and their members weren't conned by the Leave campaign.

In their sector, in their communities, they were the Leave campaign.

Every person who voted to remain saw and heard the same lies and misinformation from Leave campaigners.

Unless you believe that leave voters are very naive and child-like compared to remain voters, there is no excuse for absolving them of their adult responsibilities for the consequences of their votes.

The UK fishing industry wasn't conned, it was the con.

sondagefaux

Why aren't we seeing long queues at Dover? Because they've been moved inland to a different part of Kent.

KentOnline
NEWS TRAVEL SPORT BUSINESS WHATS
By: Dan Wright dwright@thekmgroup.co.uk
Published: 11:42, 14 January 2021

Updated: 16:01, 14 January 2021

Truckers have been left queuing for hours at a new Brexit lorry park as they wait for border paperwork to be cleared.

Transport chiefs say a photo showing a long line of hauliers at the Waterbrook Park facility in Ashford proves the government "isn't fully prepared" for disruption in Kent.

The site - which is set to be used until the end of February - opened on January 1 and has been getting busier in recent days at the end of the Christmas lull.

HMRC is currently carrying out customs checks on the plot while construction continues on a neighbouring 66-acre facility.

On Twitter, Rod McKenzie, director of policy and public affairs at the Road Haulage Association (RHA), said drivers had been queuing for up to eight hours yesterday to get their border paperwork signed off, describing the situation as "shocking"

.


https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/amp/horrendous-queues-as-truckers-wait-for-brexit-paperwork-clearance-240726/

prawnsambo

sondagefaux wrote: »

Why aren't we seeing long queues at Dover? Because they've been moved inland to a different part of Kent.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/ashford/news/amp/horrendous-queues-as-truckers-wait-for-brexit-paperwork-clearance-240726/

And by all accounts it's waiting time piled on waiting time piled on queues.

Edit: On top of all that, 407 drivers have been fined for not having the Kent Access Permit. The fine is £300 :eek:

bob mcbob

sondagefaux wrote: »

Fishermen, fish wholesalers and exporters, fish processors in the UK almost uniformly believed that leaving the EU would be fantastic for them.

Who led them to this belief?

Their own fishing organisations, the membership of which is themselves!

The fishing organisations and their members weren't conned by the Leave campaign.

In their sector, in their communities, they were the Leave campaign.

Every person who voted to remain saw and heard the same lies and misinformation from Leave campaigners.

Unless you believe that leave voters are very naive and child-like compared to remain voters, there is no excuse for absolving them of their adult responsibilities for the consequences of their votes.

The UK fishing industry wasn't conned, it was the con.

I cannot believe I am posting this but it is true -

Jacob Rees-Mogg, the Commons leader, later went on to argue that the fish were now happier being British. “The key is that we’ve got our fish back. They’re British fish and they’re better and happier fish for it,” he told parliament.

This is beyond satire but great response from the French

Nathalie Loiseau, France’s former Europe minister, tweeted on Thursday afternoon: “An MP who says the fish are happier because they are now British, a fisheries minister who admits she hasn’t read the agreement with the EU in her field: happily in Europe, we at least took fishermen seriously.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/14/mps-fishing-areas-criticise-government-brexit-red-tape

sondagefaux

prawnsambo wrote: »

And by all accounts it's waiting time piled on waiting time piled on queues.

Edit: On top of all that, 407 drivers have been fined for not having the Kent Access Permit. The fine is £300 :eek:

These are the EU-bound queues in Kent.

The British are delaying full implementation of their border controls until 1st July.

Once they're in place...

Will it be worth the while of EU road freight operators serving Britain if their trucks and drivers are caught up in long queues to enter and depart Britain?

Only if they put their prices up significantly.

Also worth checking this thread:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ColdChainShane/status/1349701863965421568

Seth Brundle

prawnsambo wrote: »

Edit: On top of all that, 407 drivers have been fined for not having the Kent Access Permit. The fine is £300 :eek:

So Brexit will make some money for GOV.UK?

sondagefaux

Seth Brundle wrote: »

So Brexit will make some money for GOV.UK?

Minus the loss of tax revenue as UK corporate profits fall.

May just be a tad higher than the few grand generated by fining truck drivers.

Professor Moriarty

sondagefaux wrote: »

Minus the loss of tax revenue as UK corporate profits fall.

May just be a tad higher than the few grand generated by fining truck drivers.

Going to have to tax a lot of trucks to pay for 50,000 new customs officials.

sondagefaux

An Export Health Certificate. Must be verified and signed off by a qualified vet.

Just one of the requirements that must be met to export food of animal origin to the EU from outside.

Seth Brundle

Former Brexit Secretary and current Foreign Secretary, Dominic Rabb didn't read the Belfast Agreement.
Fisheries minister Victoria Prentis ddn't read the Brexit Bill because she was busy with a childrens community event (during a pandemic :rolleyes:)
Now we have this...
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson_MP/status/1349714350236454912


Is there anyone with a scintilla of competence in Westminster?

listermint

sondagefaux wrote: »

These are the EU-bound queues in Kent.

The British are delaying full implementation of their border controls until 1st July.

Once they're in place...

Will it be worth the while of EU road freight operators serving Britain if their trucks and drivers are caught up in long queues to enter and depart Britain?

Only if they put their prices up significantly.

Also worth checking this thread:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ColdChainShane/status/1349701863965421568

It's not worth their while which is why the largest operators have pulled he plug.

Professor Moriarty

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Former Brexit Secretary and current Foreign Secretary, Dominic Rabb didn't read the Belfast Agreement.
Fisheries minister Victoria Prentis ddn't read the Brexit Bill because she was busy with a childrens community event (during a pandemic :rolleyes:)
Now we have this...
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson_MP/status/1349714350236454912


Is there anyone with a scintilla of competence in Westminster?

He was fired a few months ago. I think his name was Dominic something.

sondagefaux

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Former Brexit Secretary and current Foreign Secretary, Dominic Rabb didn't read the Belfast Agreement.
Fisheries minister Victoria Prentis ddn't read the Brexit Bill because she was busy with a childrens community event (during a pandemic :rolleyes:)
Now we have this...
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson_MP/status/1349714350236454912


Is there anyone with a scintilla of competence in Westminster?

Not even Larry, the Downing Street cat, can get results...

https://youtu.be/fqF4q9mjW-E

Seth Brundle

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

He was fired a few months ago. I think his name was Dominic something.

You mean that fella that failed to read the covid lockdown and isolation rules properly?