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2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

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    #3452
    extra gravy
    Registered Users Posts: 22,625 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    "Work ethic". He works hard on his golf swing alright.


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    #3453
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,674 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Biker79 wrote: »
    He is a seasoned businessman, who became president of the US.

    That is about as clear evidence of competence, work ethic and drive as you'll get.

    But its his ability to withstand the blast furnace of irrational hatred that I find particularly impressive. It suggests a rare strength of character.

    Not so common these days.

    You could use the exact same arguments for Biden though. A season politician, clear evidence of competence, work ethic and drive.

    Has withstood the furnace of GoP during the eight years of VP, and instead of decrying the Deep State managed to get through the Healthcare Act, so good that neither Trump of the entire GoP could think of anything better.

    I assume you are torn on you to vote for!


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    #3454
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,682 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Here's the thing about all the Trump arguments about "The Deep State" and all the supposed Criminals between Clinton , Obama , Comey and everybody else.

    Let's imagine a scenario where it's all true - All the claims they make about criminality and corruption are true.

    What does the fact that not a single person has been convicted of a crime say about the effectiveness and abilities of the GOP?

    They've been going on about this in one form or another for years , yet despite holding all 3 branches of Government for 2 years and still holding the White House , the Senate and having filled the Judicial benches with "friendly" judges they haven't managed to achieve ANYTHING in their fight against this evil cabal.

    There are really only two possible conclusions that one can come to on that basis.

    Either

    None of it is true and they are just whiny idiots looking to blame anyone and everything for their own failings.

    OR

    It is True but they are utterly incapable of doing anything about it due to their chronic ineffectiveness and incompetence.

    Neither is a good reflection on the GOP now is it?


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    #3455
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,314 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Biker79 wrote: »
    Looks fantastic - especially the great work he has been doing on human trafficking and not pandering to the military industrial complex/ overseas conflict.

    Apart from the fact he's massively increased military spending over the last 3 years. :pac:


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    #3456
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    "A seasoned businessman" who won't publish his tax returns despite repeated promises to do so. This is fun.


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    #3457
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,374 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    To be honest, you can rebut Biker and Outlaw Pete and Kidmach all day long but the only thing Trump fans will understand is losing. All of the pro Trump / pro Brexit stuff ultimately revolves back to 'well we won and you can't take it'. So the only thing that will rebut it in the end is a) a decisive electoral victory supplanted by b) people taking to the streets after that electoral victory to make it clear in no uncertain terms that they expect the result to be honoured and implemented.

    That's it. Win at all costs and all of these Trump voters and their disingenuous arguments will be gone for good.


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    #3458
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,038 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    "A seasoned businessman" who won't publish his tax returns despite repeated promises to do so. This is fun.
    He is not required to do so.


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    #3459
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    ELM327 wrote: »
    He is not required to do so.

    But he repeatdly promised he would. And wouldn't it disprove the assertion that he's a failed businessman? Truth is, he got a massive loan from his father to start his business career, his father then went guarantor for loans, then his father bailed him out when his casinos were tanking. Plus it would show that the NYT are liars when they say he's up to his neck in debt. He should publish and show how fabulous he is at being a businessman. Because right now it looks like he has the business acumen of a headless chicken.


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    #3460
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,475 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    ELM327 wrote: »
    He is not required to do so.

    apart from the subpoena you are probably right.


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    #3461
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,038 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    But he repeatdly promised he would. And wouldn't it disprove the assertion that he's a failed businessman? Truth is, he got a massive loan from his father to start his business career, his father then went guarantor for loans, then his father bailed him out when his casinos were tanking. Plus it would show that the NYT are liars when they say he's up to his neck in debt. He should publish and show how fabulous he is at being a businessman. Because right now it looks like he has the business acumen of a headless chicken.
    He got a small loan and took advantage of bankruptcy laws. If he's still using that to avoid paying taxes that makes him smart.
    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    apart from the subpoena you are probably right.
    I'm sure if it is legally required then he will have to publish.


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    #3462
    frag420
    Registered Users Posts: 6,158 ✭✭✭frag420


    ELM327 wrote: »
    He got a small loan and took advantage of bankruptcy laws. If he's still using that to avoid paying taxes that makes him smart.

    I'm sure if it is legally required then he will have to publish.

    Define small loan?


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    #3463
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,038 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    frag420 wrote: »
    Define small loan?
    Trump has defined it as $1mn.
    Which in the super rich circles he and his father run in, would likely be a small loan for business purposes.


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    #3464
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    ELM327 wrote: »
    He got a small loan and took advantage of bankruptcy laws. If he's still using that to avoid paying taxes that makes him smart.

    A million dollars 50 years ago was a small loan? Yea, no. And you advocate that a POTUS using bankruptcy laws ad nauseam is admirable? Kinda sad.

    His father gave him a shed load of money, went guarantor for a shed load more and bailed him out every time he failed. Trump's problem is that daddy isn't around anymore to bail him out so he's in deep financial sh1t. Because he has the business acumen of a lemming.


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    #3465
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,606 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    To be honest, you can rebut Biker and Outlaw Pete and Kidmach all day long but the only thing Trump fans will understand is losing. All of the pro Trump / pro Brexit stuff ultimately revolves back to 'well we won and you can't take it'. So the only thing that will rebut it in the end is a) a decisive electoral victory supplanted by b) people taking to the streets after that electoral victory to make it clear in no uncertain terms that they expect the result to be honoured and implemented.

    That's it. Win at all costs and all of these Trump voters and their disingenuous arguments will be gone for good.

    I wish, the reality is it will be four years of whinging about how Trump was robbed and the election was "rigged". Four years of youtube video's full of "evidence" that the "deep state" rigged it for Trump to lose.


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    #3466
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    I wish, the reality is it will be four years of whinging about how Trump was robbed and the election was "rigged". Four years of youtube video's full of "evidence" that the "deep state" rigged it for Trump to lose.

    Or militias storming various government buildings.


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    #3467
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,464 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    ELM327 wrote: »
    He is not required to do so.

    No, but he said he would. In fact he said he'd do a lot of stuff, but so far none of those deliverables have been achieved. If you hired a builder to renovate your house on a 4 year fixed contract, and you're still waiting three and a half years later for them to complete the job they said they'd complete on their very first day, they'd be out on their ear, let alone get the next 4 year contract


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    #3468
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,464 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Trump has defined it as $1mn.
    Which in the super rich circles he and his father run in, would likely be a small loan for business purposes.

    Indeed Trump did define it as little as that. However we've no way of verifying that have we? In fact, it's indicated by many sources that it's actually a lot lot bigger than that. And indeed Trump himself has been known to fluctuate certain assets, depending whom he's talking to, particularly pertinent in the current Tax fraud case. Not to mention his other constant, proveable lies.

    So who to believe.....


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    #3469
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,682 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    ELM327 wrote: »
    He is not required to do so.

    Just as Obama was under no obligation to release his Birth Certificate , but Trump demanded that almost daily and claimed to have seen incontrovertible evidence that Obama was not born in the US.

    Obama eventually made the information available just to shut everyone up and because it proved that what everyone was saying was rubbish.

    Trump is likely heading for the Supreme court a second time to stop people seeing his Tax returns.

    What is he so terrified of people seeing??


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    #3470
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ELM327 wrote: »
    He got a small loan and took advantage of bankruptcy laws. If he's still using that to avoid paying taxes that makes him smart.

    I'm sure if it is legally required then he will have to publish.

    You don't find it odd that he seems actively afraid of the public knowing the details?


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    #3471
    Pedro K
    Registered Users Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭Pedro K


    Biker79 wrote: »
    He is a seasoned businessman, who became president of the US.

    That is about as clear evidence of competence, work ethic and drive as you'll get.

    But its his ability to withstand the blast furnace of irrational hatred that I find particularly impressive. It suggests a rare strength of character.

    Not so common these days.

    He tried to bully Greta Thunberg, who was 16 at the time, because she won an award that he wanted.*





    *And she absolutely destroyed him.


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    #3472
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,682 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You don't find it odd that he seems actively afraid of the public knowing the details?

    Well - So far every single time that information that Trump tried to hide has become Public knowledge it was bad news for Trump.

    There isn't a single example where Trump has refused to share information "Because he wasn't obliged to" that when it became public , it made Trump look good.

    If his Tax returns confirmed his status as the Ultra Successful Billionaire he claims to be , Trump would be taking out full pages adverts in every newspaper showing the information. He is far too much of a Narcissist to hide a good news story.


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    #3473
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,682 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Biker79 wrote: »
    He is a seasoned businessman, who became president of the US.

    That is about as clear evidence of competence, work ethic and drive as you'll get.

    But its his ability to withstand the blast furnace of irrational hatred that I find particularly impressive. It suggests a rare strength of character.

    Not so common these days.
    Pedro K wrote: »
    He tried to bully Greta Thunberg, who was 16 at the time, because she won an award that he wanted.*


    *And she absolutely destroyed him.


    He's also currently headed for the Supreme court to get permission to be able to block people that are being mean to him on Twitter

    And he just started that court case last Thursday - THAT is what is occupying his mind as a thousand Americans a day are dying from a virus.

    Strength of Character my arse , he is a spoiled petulant child.


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    #3474
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,018 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    He's also currently headed for the Supreme court to get permission to be able to block people that are being mean to him on Twitter

    And he just started that court case last Thursday - THAT is what is occupying his mind as a thousand Americans a day are dying from a virus.

    Strength of Character my arse , he is a spoiled petulant child.

    Why is this a matter for the supreme court? Doesn't he only use his own account?

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #3475
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,475 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    duploelabs wrote: »
    Indeed Trump did define it as little as that. However we've no way of verifying that have we? In fact, it's indicated by many sources that it's actually a lot lot bigger than that. And indeed Trump himself has been known to fluctuate certain assets, depending whom he's talking to, particularly pertinent in the current Tax fraud case. Not to mention his other constant, proveable lies.

    So who to believe.....

    how many million in chips did Trumps father buy with cash to stop one of trumps casinos going bankrupt?


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    #3476
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,475 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Why is this a matter for the supreme court? Doesn't he only use his own account?

    his own account is considered an official government account as he uses it for official business. as such he is not allowed to block anybody


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    #3477
    Carfacemandog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Trump has defined it as $1mn.
    Which in the super rich circles he and his father run in, would likely be a small loan for business purposes.
    You're doing that thing again, where you take the man of 20,000 lies in 42 months at face value.

    His claim of $1mn was (shock!) a complete lie. In 2018 money, Donald was given $140mn or $413mn by mommy and daddy, depending on how you want to look at it. Had he just put the lower $140mn amount into a S&P plan and left it, that alone would now be $1.97bn.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html


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    #3478
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,475 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You don't find it odd that he seems actively afraid of the public knowing the details?

    he is afraid because his tax returns would prove he has committed wire fraud.


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    #3479
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,018 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    his own account is considered an official government account as he uses it for official business. as such he is not allowed to block anybody

    So he's running crying to a figure of authority asking them to let him block the mean people on the internet. A rather pathetic look for an authoritarian strongman IMO.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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    #3480
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,682 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Why is this a matter for the supreme court? Doesn't he only use his own account?
    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    So he's running crying to a figure of authority asking them to let him block the mean people on the internet. A rather pathetic look for an authoritarian strongman IMO.

    That's it in a nutshell basically.

    He's in this position because just like every other part of his time in the White House , he continues to freely mix his personal and public activities without any concern for propriety or the normal rules.


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    #3481
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,018 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    That's it in a nutshell basically.

    He's in this position because just like every other part of his time in the White House , he continues to freely mix his personal and public activities without any concern for propriety or the normal rules.

    What did Trump and his acolytes think would happen when he made triggering people his shtick? What did they expect? I don't get this.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



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