2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

extra gravy · 26-08-2020 6:49pm

Rittenhouse sounds like the kind of guy that the Young Republicans would be interested in.

Irishman80 · 26-08-2020 6:51pm

Tell me how wrote: »

We're all seeing the images of the shooter calmly walking amongst and past police officers while holding his weapon and nobody challenging him.

Takes some neck to look at the situation and blame the Democrats.

Even Democrats can see how this reflects on them and helps Trump. Too late now though, Wisconsin is back in play from been essentially locked down by Biden.

namloc1980 · 26-08-2020 6:53pm

Irishman80 wrote: »

What an absolute s--tshow from the Democrats in Wisconsin.

Yesterday, they refused Federal Assistance to manage the rioting in Kenosha. The city board of Kenosha requested substantial NG support (1500 NG) to help protect the city. The Democrat governor refused and sent 200 men.

City burning to the ground, Democrats pandering to rioters, now people are dead. Today, the Govenor accepted substantial federal assistance. Even Don Lemon is calling for the Democrats to speak against the riots.

If people don't think these images will be beamed into the homes of people across the US in the next few months, they are asleep.

People shot by one of those fine 2nd Amendment armed eejits. Takes some absolute neck to blame the democrats for that.

namloc1980 · 26-08-2020 6:54pm

Irishman80 wrote: »

Even Democrats can see how this reflects on them and helps Trump. Too late now though, Wisconsin is back in play from been essentially locked down by Biden.

Do you have a poll or anything to back this up or is it just made up in your head?

Sean.3516 · 26-08-2020 6:56pm

Overheal wrote: »

Was Farrakhan there? I must have missed it.

What anti-semites were there?

They'd never be stupid enough to put Farrakhan there but they continually tolerate people who support him and/or say anti-semitic things themselves. People like Corey Booker, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Tamika Mallory and Linda Sarsour (who the Biden campaign distanced themselves from after her speech and then promptly apologised for doing so).

Overheal wrote: »

In other words, it's better for all that Trump stays in his bunker. Got it.

He doesn't need to stay there in order to boost his chances, but he does need to be disciplined. Polls have continually shown that when people hear from him less or when he stays on teleprompter, or when he's abroad, not only does his unfavorability decrease but his favourability actually increases. This is why his most well received speeches have consistently been foreign policy speeches given abroad. Because Trump is less ensconced in the personality-politics of Twitter when he gives these speeches.

I would say the correlation is less to do with him not saying anything and more to do with him not saying stupid things.

Overheal wrote: »

Is that the same Nikki Haley that excoriated Trump for using 'language I don't teach my own children to use?' Or the one who abruptly abandoned her post as governor to be an ambassador only to swiftly disappear from that job because she was about to be investigated for serious ethics violations?

Sooo??
She was governor of SC for six years before becoming UN ambassador and she was succeeded by her own handpicked lt. governor. It wasn't like she just abandoned her state.
This seems to be a favourite tactic among some people. Accuse the person of various forms of misbehaviour (without evidence) as a substitute for an actual argument against their position.

Haley was born to Indian immigrants and grew up in the Deep South and managed to become governor of South Carolina and we're supposed to believe this is a deeply racist country?

Overheal wrote: »

Scott is the party's token minority senator, they will cast him off as a RINO the minute he steps off the party line.

Wow, he's a black Republican, therefore he's a token. How racist. Yes, I'm sure all the racist hicks in South Carolina elected a black man to the Senate because they wanted a token.

extra gravy · 26-08-2020 7:00pm

https://twitter.com/Peter_Grinspoon/status/1298444030137835522?s=19

Their playbook is so transparent to everyone except their brainwashed base.

Irishman80 · 26-08-2020 7:01pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Do you have a poll or anything to back this up or is it just made up in your head?

Keep your head buried in the sand and ignore what Democrat strategists are now saying.

Democrats should be talking about Covid19, healthcare, economy, racial division - they shouldn't be running defence for groups they supported who are now burning and looting cities.

Overheal · 26-08-2020 7:02pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

People shot by one of those fine 2nd Amendment armed eejits. Takes some absolute neck to blame the democrats for that.

I think its at least fair to say both candidates will need to pick Wisconsin as a battleground after the weeks events. Democrats can still win there, but they must address the current issue. Outrage from Republicans scorching the authority of the governorship on their way out the door after losing in 2018 won't be enough at this juncture.

duploelabs · 26-08-2020 7:06pm

Irishman80 wrote: »

Keep your head buried in the sand and ignore what Democrat strategists are now saying.

Democrats should be talking about Covid19, healthcare, economy, racial division - they shouldn't be running defence for groups they supported who are now burning and looting cities.

So thats a no then?

Sean.3516 · 26-08-2020 7:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

They have multiple Q-Anon believers running in the election... And the president basically said he likes them since they like him. So the loons are running the asylum tbh.

Yes and that's a bad thing. But at least the Republican national leadership has shown their disapproval of them by dropping that speaker.

As regards Trump in that clip where he was asked about QAnon, it's perfectly obvious that Trump hadn't the foggiest idea what QAnon was. Yet, Trump is happy to say nice things about almost anybody who says nice things about him.

jamule · 26-08-2020 7:08pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

What's the point in electing Trump again? I mean if parts of the country are getting wrecked, as you say, then this President is not very good is he. Did we see cities burning under Obama? Did we see cities burning under Clinton or Bush? No. Then why is it happening under this President? I know Trumpists are desperately trying to focus the blame elsewhere but this is happening under him.

Bush Snr was the last time of big riots. His AG sorted it out, helped him get re-elected too, wonder what happened that lad .

Irishman80 · 26-08-2020 7:13pm

duploelabs wrote: »

So thats a no then?

The funny thing about people like yourself, who are tied to a candidate, is ye can't seem to realise when something is bad for a candidate or good for a candidate. The candidate is always right no matter what.

In Minnesota, Biden was miles ahead. After the BLM riots and unrest, the last month has produced polls which put the race at a dead heat.

But, but, but what evidence do you have that it will affect Biden in Wisconsin?

Cody montana · 26-08-2020 7:13pm

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Yes and that's a bad thing. But at least the Republican national leadership has shown their disapproval of them by dropping that speaker.

As regards Trump in that clip where he was asked about QAnon, it's perfectly obvious that Trump hadn't the foggiest idea what QAnon was. Yet, Trump is happy to say nice things about almost anybody who says nice things about him.

Except

'HONORED' Trump invites QAnon-supporting Republican candidate Marjorie Taylor Greene to the White House for his RNC speech.

namloc1980 · 26-08-2020 7:14pm

jamule wrote: »

Bush Snr was the last time of big riots. His AG sorted it out, helped him get re-elected too, wonder what happened that lad .

Bush Snr was a one term President.

jamule · 26-08-2020 7:16pm

namloc1980 wrote: »

Bush Snr was a one term President.

must have been his AGs fault then, funny how history (hopefully) repeats itself.

dwayneshintzy · 26-08-2020 7:18pm

Irishman80 wrote: »

The funny thing about people like yourself, who are tied to a candidate, is ye can't seem to realise when something is bad for a candidate or good for a candidate. The candidate is always right no matter what.

In Minnesota, Biden was miles ahead. After the BLM riots and unrest, the last month has produced polls which put the race at a dead heat.

But, but, but what evidence do you have that it will affect Biden in Wisconsin?

Have you a source for this, then?

Looking at 538's tracking doesn't remotely reflect what you're saying. 49.8% Biden, 45.2% Trump on May 24th (day before George Floyd's death). 49.9% Biden, 44.8% Trump today;

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/minnesota/

Sean.3516 · 26-08-2020 7:19pm

extra gravy wrote: »

But when AOC or Ilhan Omar overcome the odds to build a better life for themselves, they are insulted and derided by Republicans as horrible people who hate their country. More hypocritical rubbish.

Yes! Because they are women from minority backgrounds who have led highly successful lives and turn around and call their country systemically racist!

Ilhan Omar was born in MOGADISHU, SOMALIA. A total hell hole of a country in perpetual civil war and she is now a sitting in the US Congress. Yet she has the temerity to call America institutionally racist.

AOC literally went from serving drinks in a bar to serving in the US Congress and she calls America a place were women and minorities can't get ahead.

Republicans despise them because they are the most ungrateful people on planet earth.

ancapailldorcha · 26-08-2020 7:20pm

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Yes! Because they are women from minority backgrounds who have led highly successful lives and turn around and call their country systemically racist!

Ilhan Omar was born in MOGADISHU, SOMALIA. A total hell hole of a country in perpetual civil war and she is now a sitting in the US Congress. Yet she has the temerity to call America institutionally racist.

AOC literally went from serving drinks in a bar to serving in the US Congress and she calls America a place were women and minorities can't get ahead.

Republicans despise them because they are the most ungrateful people on planet earth.

Why should they be grateful? They enjoyed success because they worked for it. They didn't have the luxury of being born into wealthy white families.

Irishman80 · 26-08-2020 7:21pm

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Have you a source for this, then?

Looking at 538's tracking doesn't remotely reflect what you're saying. 49.8% Biden, 45.2% Trump on May 24th (day before George Floyd's death). 49.9% Biden, 44.8% Trump today;

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/minnesota/

Last two polls conducted this month have the race at 47-47 and 51-49 (Biden). It's a dead heat now.

Timberrrrrrrr · 26-08-2020 7:21pm

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Yes! Because they are women from minority backgrounds who have led highly successful lives and turn around and call their country systemically racist!

Ilhan Omar was born in MOGADISHU, SOMALIA. A total hell hole of a country in perpetual civil war and she is now a sitting in the US Congress. Yet she has the temerity to call America institutionally racist.

AOC literally went from serving drinks in a bar to serving in the US Congress and she calls America a place were women and minorities can't get ahead.

Republicans despise them because they are the most ungrateful people on planet earth.

And the Republicans hate her for this.

Overheal · 26-08-2020 7:24pm

Sean.3516 wrote: »

People like Corey Booker, Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Tamika Mallory and Linda Sarsour (who the Biden campaign distanced themselves from after her speech and then promptly apologised for doing so).

Not to be obtuse, genuine ask: can you walk me through what antisemitic things each has said? I know Omar and/or Tlaib have been pilloried before, with comments about Israel, but I hardly find that to be as antisemitic as many of the things one ordinarily associates with Antisemitism. It's one thing to criticize the policies of Israel, another to lament "the Jew run media" etc.

He doesn't need to stay there in order to boost his chances, but he does need to be disciplined. Polls have continually shown that when people hear from him less or when he stays on teleprompter, or when he's abroad, not only does his unfavorability decrease but his favourability actually increases. This is why his most well received speeches have consistently been foreign policy speeches given abroad. Because Trump is less ensconced in the personality-politics of Twitter when he gives these speeches.

I agree and I have been saying so since 2016 but Trump is Trump, and will be Trump. He never grew into the whole 'be presidential' thing, like he teased he would do after securing the election. And it would have been the easiest thing for him to do, just read the lines, act stoic, and feck off to golf, his approval would have been 10-15 points higher I would think.

Sooo??
She was governor of SC for six years before becoming UN ambassador and she was succeeded by her own handpicked lt. governor. It wasn't like she just abandoned her state.

Her handpicked Lt Gov (Henry McMaster) vetoed emergency funds passed by the legislature to replace schoolbusses that were literally catching themselves on fire while being driven around with children in them. He's not been a total disaster, I admit, but he's not not a piece of **** either. He's actually a decent governor when it comes to doing crisis management, except, you know, the crisis of putting schoolkids in the way of imminent danger. And his first pick for acting Lt Gov. (Kevin Bryant) was a disaster, pro-life alt right nutjob that ended up running against him. Now he's back in the private sector running some small local business, I'm frankly just glad I don't have to address another one of his conspiracy theories about planned parenthood or migrant caravans.

This seems to be a favourite tactic among some people. Accuse the person of various forms of misbehaviour (without evidence) as a substitute for an actual argument against their position.

In a way yes I'm playing the ball. It is what Republicans do, and I expect them to take it how they serve it. I do have evidence for what I said though.

Haley was born to Indian immigrants and grew up in the Deep South and managed to become governor of South Carolina and we're supposed to believe this is a deeply racist country?

Shifting the goalpost a bit there aren't we. You can simultaneously elect a minority governor and have problems of racism.

Wow, he's a black Republican, therefore he's a token. How racist. Yes, I'm sure all the racist hicks in South Carolina elected a black man to the Senate because they wanted a token.

That's not a fair characterization, ultimately it was Scott's compunction to run and join the Republican ideology. However, Republicans clearly have hoisted him to undue prominence because of his particulars. If you look at who else joined the Senate Republicans in 2013 it was him, Ted Cruz (also minority particulars) and - Deb Fischer, who nobody talks about. The only person with minority creds iirc that is more senior in the senate republicans is Marco Rubio.

It's not racist, it's just a fact that they have catapulted Tim Scott to the forefront of their party brand. And it's no wonder: peruse yourself the long historical list of all Black Americans who have served in our Congress, you'll note surely that one party in particular seems to dominate the enfranchisement of Black Americans:

https://history.house.gov/Exhibitions-and-Publications/BAIC/Historical-Data/Black-American-Representatives-and-Senators-by-Congress/

Sean.3516 · 26-08-2020 7:25pm

Overheal wrote: »

Source?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/31/upshot/a-2016-review-why-key-state-polls-were-wrong-about-trump.html

Trump received less votes in Wisconsin than Mitt Romney did in 2012.
Romney lost the state.
Trump won it.

dwayneshintzy · 26-08-2020 7:25pm

Irishman80 wrote: »

Last two polls conducted this month have the race at 47-47 and 51-49 (Biden). It's a dead heat now.

Which two polls? Are they the only two polls which have been conducted?

The Trafalgar Group doesn't seem to be a particularly prominent or well rated poll, if that's what you're putting your stock in.

Overheal · 26-08-2020 7:26pm

Irishman80 wrote: »

The funny thing about people like yourself, who are tied to a candidate, is ye can't seem to realise when something is bad for a candidate or good for a candidate. The candidate is always right no matter what.

In Minnesota, Biden was miles ahead. After the BLM riots and unrest, the last month has produced polls which put the race at a dead heat.

But, but, but what evidence do you have that it will affect Biden in Wisconsin?

Be more interesting to see where the polls go in a couple weeks there. Naturally if you polled it right as protests and rioting was happening things are going to be skewed. I'm more interested in if that shift holds up past the news cycles 15 minutes of fame.

Eric Cartman · 26-08-2020 7:27pm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

And the Republicans hate her for this.

No, republicans hate her because her solution to a lot of things is 'socialism' and she constantly picks at republican policies, corporations and all of the structures that made America financially excel.

Overheal · 26-08-2020 7:29pm

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Yes! Because they are women from minority backgrounds who have led highly successful lives and turn around and call their country systemically racist!

Ilhan Omar was born in MOGADISHU, SOMALIA. A total hell hole of a country in perpetual civil war and she is now a sitting in the US Congress. Yet she has the temerity to call America institutionally racist.

AOC literally went from serving drinks in a bar to serving in the US Congress and she calls America a place were women and minorities can't get ahead.

Republicans despise them because they are the most ungrateful people on planet earth.

You are thinking about this all backwards. Some minority woman making it to Congress doesn't disprove that there are systemic and institutional barriers to women and minorities achieving prosperity in the United States. You are staring at the glass ceiling when you should be looking at where the floor is.

Overheal · 26-08-2020 7:31pm

Sean.3516 wrote: »

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/31/upshot/a-2016-review-why-key-state-polls-were-wrong-about-trump.html

Trump received less votes in Wisconsin than Mitt Romney did in 2012.
Romney lost the state.
Trump won it.

Not your fault but NYT paywalls even its archived articles so I cannot access that. This is why I loathe NYT, at least WaPo leaves some **** free.

namloc1980 · 26-08-2020 7:31pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

No, republicans hate her because her solution to a lot of things is 'socialism' and she constantly picks at republican policies, corporations and all of the structures that made America financially excel.

Can you list out what you believe are her socialist solutions? Republicans accuse her of advocating socialism and communism while not understanding what either are. And to be honest most people who bang on about socialism actually don't know what socialism is and just use it as a buzzword.

Sean.3516 · 26-08-2020 7:33pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Why should they be grateful? They enjoyed success because they worked for it. They didn't have the luxury of being born into wealthy white families.

And if America were as sexist and as racist as they claim it is on a daily basis, they wouldn't have succeeded no matter how hard they worked.

Surely that's something to be grateful for.

Tim Scott and Nicki Haley were elected as an African-American Senator and an Indian-American governor by the state that started the Civil War. Both of them have encountered discrimination in their lives and have enough humility to recognise their success would not have been possible in a nation that despised them for their colour as AOC and Omar believe.

Irishman80 · 26-08-2020 7:34pm

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Which two polls? Are they the only two polls which have been conducted?

The Trafalgar Group doesn't seem to be a particularly prominent or well rated poll, if that's what you're putting your stock in.

It's on the link you provided. Trafalgar and Emerson. Both pollsters had Biden up a couple of months ago. By the way, you can't argue about me putting my stock in such polls when you are doing the same thing by providing the same polls I'm addressing.

Sample sizes of 700 and 1200 are pretty decent sample sizes too. Polls closer to the date today also highlight trend patterns in poll averages, as can be seen from the graph you posted.

Minnesota is firmly in play. I'd expect over the next month to see a trend towards Trump in Wisconsin also.

2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

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