2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

Overheal

AllForIt wrote: »

So, the police should do it then. But are they.

Last I checked?

You must admit that's very hard to manage, where on the one hand you have 'peaceful' protests but on the other non-peaceful protests. How to tell which is which until it's too late.

Naturally. That's another reason why not wise to act as a vigilante toward people in a public assembly.

Richard Hillman

For the first time in a couple of months Biden and Trump are now level on the Betting odds with Paddy Power. Both 10/11.

Trump was 6/4 last week. Went to Evens yesterday and now 10/11. This is before any debates and now the BLM/Antifa Riots are becoming increasingly violent.

Seems to me the Democrats are just saying things to keep the extreme end of their party happy. As opposed to trying to appeal to the floating voter.

Leroy42

Richard Hillman wrote: »

For the first time in a couple of months Biden and Trump are now level on the Betting odds with Paddy Power. Both 10/11.

Trump was 6/4 last week. Went to Evens yesterday and now 10/11. This is before any debates and now the BLM/Antifa Riots are becoming increasingly violent.

Seems to me the Democrats are just saying things to keep the extreme end of their party happy. As opposed to trying to appeal to the floating voter.

And Trump is doing what exactly?

Biden is targeting the floating voter. Those than regret voting Trump, those that don't vote normally. It is why there is so few undecided so far out from the election.

Jesus, the entire RNC was spent appealing directly to his base, never mind the last 4 years from Trump himself.

dwayneshintzy

Overheal wrote: »

Supply evidence please.

The "evidence" they seem to often give is Biden supporting peaceful protests, and a wilful conflation of protestors to imply that all are collectively violent.

dwayneshintzy

AllForIt wrote: »

So, the police should do it then. But are they.

You must admit that's very hard to manage, where on the one hand you have 'peaceful' protests but on the other non-peaceful protests. How to tell which is which until it's too late.

Very often, the single biggest determining factor as to whether a protest turns violent is the actions of the police towards that protest.

Kidchameleon

The DNC, whilst having higher TV ratings, was overshadowed by the RNC which had higher combined TV and online views. It appears that Americans are sick of the democrats and their identity politics fueled riots. I'd go so far as to say Trump is heading for a landslide.

The Trump campaign, the Republican National Committee and their joint-fundraising committees raked in $76 million during the 2020 Republican National Convention whilst the Biden campaign brought in just $70 million during the DNC

The Trump campaign’s efforts exceeded those of the Biden campaign.

The Republican National Convention brought in 147.9 million total views across television and online between Monday and the end of Thursday night's programming whilst The DNC convention had a mere 122 million total viewers through television and online.

More information:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-campaign-millions-republican-national-convention

ThunbergsAreGo

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Exactly as I said, Trump claims to be against white suoremacists... while praising attendees of a white supremacist organised rally as 'very fine people'.

Replace the KKK/Spencer with Al Qaeda/ISIS, and Trump with Obama, and there would rightfully have been absolute uproar. But because it's Trump, his supporters feel the dutiful need to defend him to the hilt no matter what.

If there is one thing that Trump has said that is completely true, it is that he could shoot a man in the street and not lose supporters.

This is why Trump never denounced white supremacist support from the likes of Charlottesville organiser Richard Spencer, because he knows well that his supporters who are not racists are more than happy to mingle with them, and defend them if it means defending Trump. Such is the nature of cultism.

Thats actually the first time i have heard that. What he said makes alot more sense now. And is alot less contraversial than has been suggested many times... Bit if you repeat a lie enough

He literally disassociated the comment and himself from white nationalists in that video.

Trump being elected no doubt showed up divisions in Ameruca, but the media seems intent on pushing peoole further apart with sensationalist reporting (on both sides)

extra gravy

Kidchameleon wrote: »

It appears that Americans are sick of the democrats and their identity politics fueled riots.[/URL]

But they're not sick of the fact that the Republican administration's inept response to the pandemic has resulted in the deaths of 170k of their fellow Americans?

LessOutragePlz

extra gravy wrote: »

But they're not sick of the fact that the Republican administration's inept response to the pandemic has resulted in the deaths of 170k of their fellow Americans?

According to data released by the CDC 94% of those people that are listed as covid deaths, died with a serious underlying condition so it's safe to say that they died with covid rather than from covid alone.

So how many Americans died as a direct result of covid? Around 10,000 but I'm sure people will claim if they died with covid then covid was the cause of death :rolleyes: .

http://nbc25news.com/news/local/cdc-94-of-covid-19-deaths-had-underlying-medical-conditions

LessOutragePlz

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

According to data released by the CDC 94% of those people that are listed as covid deaths, died with a serious underlying condition so it's safe to say that they died with covid rather than from covid alone.

So how many Americans died as a direct result of covid? Around 10,000 but I'm sure people will claim if they died with covid then covid was the cause of death :rolleyes: .

http://nbc25news.com/news/local/cdc-94-of-covid-19-deaths-had-underlying-medical-conditions

The majority of them would be alive if they had not caught covid. So trying to rewrite it to only 10,000 covid deaths is the height of dishonesty.

LessOutragePlz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The majority of them would be alive if they had not caught covid.

Can you provide any evidence for this claim?

Leroy42

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The DNC, whilst having higher TV ratings, was overshadowed by the RNC which had higher combined TV and online views. It appears that Americans are sick of the democrats and their identity politics fueled riots. I'd go so far as to say Trump is heading for a landslide.

The Trump campaign, the Republican National Committee and their joint-fundraising committees raked in $76 million during the 2020 Republican National Convention whilst the Biden campaign brought in just $70 million during the DNC

The Trump campaign’s efforts exceeded those of the Biden campaign.

The Republican National Convention brought in 147.9 million total views across television and online between Monday and the end of Thursday night's programming whilst The DNC convention had a mere 122 million total viewers through television and online.

More information:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-campaign-millions-republican-national-convention

Trumps whole sthick is identity politics. Labelling everyone else as left wing socialists and rioters.

Without identity politics Trump has nothing to talk about.

He has just changed the traditional identities to new ones. Minorities, gun owners, freedom lovers, neo nazis etc

Leroy42

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The DNC, whilst having higher TV ratings, was overshadowed by the RNC which had higher combined TV and online views. It appears that Americans are sick of the democrats and their identity politics fueled riots. I'd go so far as to say Trump is heading for a landslide.

The Trump campaign, the Republican National Committee and their joint-fundraising committees raked in $76 million during the 2020 Republican National Convention whilst the Biden campaign brought in just $70 million during the DNC

The Trump campaign’s efforts exceeded those of the Biden campaign.

The Republican National Convention brought in 147.9 million total views across television and online between Monday and the end of Thursday night's programming whilst The DNC convention had a mere 122 million total viewers through television and online.

More information:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-campaign-millions-republican-national-convention

Trumps whole sthick is identity politics. Labelling everyone else as left wing socialists and rioters.

Without identity politics Trump has nothing to talk about.

He has just changed the traditional identities to new ones. Minorities, gun owners, freedom lovers, neo nazis etc

ohnonotgmail

Danzy wrote: »

Whatever about the right or wrong of Kyle's shooting or his character.

We can all surely agree that the world is a nicer and safer place for kids and women now that those 2 pricks are dead.

we can all certainly agree that the world will be a nicer and safer place when Kyle spends the rest of his life in prison.

LessOutragePlz

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Can you provide any evidence for this claim?

Excess deaths indicates as much.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-excess-deaths-tally-in-the-us-is-204691-in-7-months-so-covid-19-deaths-might-be-undercounted-2020-08-13

Leroy42

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

According to data released by the CDC 94% of those people that are listed as covid deaths, died with a serious underlying condition so it's safe to say that they died with covid rather than from covid alone.

So how many Americans died as a direct result of covid? Around 10,000 but I'm sure people will claim if they died with covid then covid was the cause of death :rolleyes: .

http://nbc25news.com/news/local/cdc-94-of-covid-19-deaths-had-underlying-medical-conditions

you can pretty much excuse anything using that logic.

People get murdered, well they would have died eventually. Euthanasia, sure why not, the old haven't got much time left anyway.

Sure many of those killed in 9/11 had health problems or would have developed them so did they really lose out?

What are the excess death numbers vs say the average of the last 5 years? Over 200k according to protonmikes link. Obviously you have different numbers that indicate hardly any excess deaths. Perhaps you could provide a link?

But even if we take your point as reasonable. Surely that implies that Trump was even more irresponsible to have done nothing about the virus for so long, pretending it was all a hoak, or would simply go away, knowing how it would impact on those with current health problems?

namloc1980

Leroy42 wrote: »

you can pretty much excuse anything using that logic.

People get murdered, well they would have died eventually. Euthanasia, sure why not, the old haven't got much time left anyway.

Sure many of those killed in 9/11 had health problems or would have developed them so did they really lose out?

What are the excess death numbers vs say the average of the last 5 years? Over 200k according to protonmikes link. Obviously you have different numbers that indicate hardly any excess deaths. Perhaps you could provide a link?

Excess deaths are over 200k and is the most accurate measure of the impact of Covid-19. Trumpists trying to obfuscate things as usual with the co-morbidity stuff, "sure, they would've died anyway".

ThunbergsAreGo

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

According to data released by the CDC 94% of those people that are listed as covid deaths, died with a serious underlying condition so it's safe to say that they died with covid rather than from covid alone.

So how many Americans died as a direct result of covid? Around 10,000 but I'm sure people will claim if they died with covid then covid was the cause of death :rolleyes: .

http://nbc25news.com/news/local/cdc-94-of-covid-19-deaths-had-underlying-medical-conditions

Thats just wrong, many of the other illness there were likely caught as a direct consequence of COVID. So you are right they didnt die with COVID alone, but that is not the same at all as not dieing from COVID.

The actual mortality rate of COVID and the balance of the economy vs lockdown are for other threads.

ohnonotgmail

namloc1980 wrote: »

Excess deaths are over 200k and is the most accurate measure of the impact of Covid-19. Trumpists trying to obfuscate things as usual with the co-morbidity stuff, "sure, they would've died anyway".

we are all going to die anyway so the point that trumpists make is particularly stupid. it does show that the party that considers itself pro-life is spectacularly callous when it comes to deaths. they basically have a 9/11 every couple of days and they dont give a monkeys.

namloc1980

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

we are all going to die anyway so the point that trumpists make is particularly stupid. it does show that the party that considers itself pro-life is spectacularly callous when it comes to deaths. they basically have a 9/11 every couple of days and they dont give a monkeys.

57% of Republicans think that c.180k deaths from Covid is acceptable. The "pro-life" party! https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/08/23/poll-57-of-republicans-find-coronavirus-death-toll-now-over-176000-acceptable/#565e540e46c6

duploelabs

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

we are all going to die anyway so the point that trumpists make is particularly stupid. it does show that the party that considers itself pro-life is spectacularly callous when it comes to deaths. they basically have a 9/11 every couple of days and they dont give a monkeys.

That's because 9/11 was done by foreigners who have a different faith and skin colour than them

LessOutragePlz

namloc1980 wrote: »

57% of Republicans think that c.180k deaths from Covid is acceptable. The "pro-life" party! https://www.forbes.com/sites/nicholasreimann/2020/08/23/poll-57-of-republicans-find-coronavirus-death-toll-now-over-176000-acceptable/#565e540e46c6

The death per million figure of 552 for the USA is similar to the death per million figure of the UK, Sweden, France and Italy.

So the US ain't doing a terrible job at dealing with it despite people constantly talking about the total deaths.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=table

Eric Cartman

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Very often, the single biggest determining factor as to whether a protest turns violent is the actions of the police towards that protest.

The biggest determining factor in protests getting violent is the maturity and attitudes of the protestors, groups like antifa or blm are most often comprised of people living off their parents or the welfare state who have nothing to lose and a jealous distaste for businesses and the wealthy, they dont see how short sighted property damage is and fail fo see the immorality of looting.

Protestors get violent to things they don't have respect for , its why right wing groups have no issue attacking counter protests and left wing groups have no issue attacking property, police, businesses, counter protests, white people, wealthy people, Non aligned politicians, flags, monuments and statues etc...

ohnonotgmail

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

The death per million figure of 552 for the USA is similar to the death per million figure of the UK, Sweden, France and Italy.

So the US ain't doing a terrible job at dealing with it despite people constantly talking about the total deaths.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=table

the difference is that the deaths per million rate for the US is still on a vertical trajectory. the others (with the exception of the UK) have leveled out. it is september tomorrow and they still have not got a grip on the virus. there is no will from trump to solve the problem. he didnt even mention it during the RNC. 180,000 and not a word about them.

LessOutragePlz

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

The death per million figure of 552 for the USA is similar to the death per million figure of the UK, Sweden, France and Italy.

So the US ain't doing a terrible job at dealing with it despite people constantly talking about the total deaths.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=table

The UK, Sweden and France were hit badly because they handled it terribly. Italy was one of the first hit countries and simply wasn't equipped to cope with it. So, why are you classifying it as a not terrible job?

Igotadose

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The biggest determining factor in protests getting violent is the maturity and attitudes of the protestors, groups like antifa or blm are most often comprised of people living off their parents or the welfare state who have nothing to lose and a jealous distaste for businesses and the wealthy, they dont see how short sighted property damage is and fail fo see the immorality of looting.

Protestors get violent to things they don't have respect for , its why right wing groups have no issue attacking counter protests and left wing groups have no issue attacking property, police, businesses, counter protests, white people, wealthy people, Non aligned politicians, flags, monuments and statues etc...

Murderer in Wisconsin was 17. His mother drove him to the protest so he could play cop, and while at it murder two people
Alt-right types with Proud in their names typically live in their basements or on the dole. Ammon Bundy, recently arrested, lives at home.

Who are Antifa, exactly? Have you got a link?

Fiery mutant

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

The death per million figure of 552 for the USA is similar to the death per million figure of the UK, Sweden, France and Italy.

So the US ain't doing a terrible job at dealing with it despite people constantly talking about the total deaths.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=table

The US is doing a terrible job. The comparison with the other countries you mention is that the US numbers are still moving at a high rate. The other countries you mention put in significant efforts to curtail the effects, massive lockdowns etc. The US came out of lockdown far too early, the president made little to no effort to control or eradicate the virus, spent the entire time talking about himself, accepting no responsibility while blaming everyone else, and generally being a racist a-hole.

LessOutragePlz

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The UK, Sweden and France were hit badly because they handled it terribly. Italy was one of the first hit countries and simply wasn't equipped to cope with it. So, why are you classifying it as a not terrible job?

They all handled it as best they could same as the US and Trump that why I'm not classifying it as a terrible job.

Igotadose

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

They all handled it as best they could same as the US and Trump that why I'm not classifying it as a terrible job.

Same as the US and Trump is debatable. Why take so long to get PPE to health workers? The other countries were faster at it. Why delay months after hearing about it from China like Trump did.

Trump had the Intel and sat on it because he'd been told he'd have to lock down.

Oh, countries that moved more aggressively to wear masks, all did better than the US.

greenfield21

Fiery mutant wrote: »

The US is doing a terrible job. The comparison with the other countries you mention is that the US numbers are still moving at a high rate. The other countries you mention put in significant efforts to curtail the effects, massive lockdowns etc. The US came out of lockdown far too early, the president made little to no effort to control or eradicate the virus, spent the entire time talking about himself, accepting no responsibility while blaming everyone else, and generally being a racist a-hole.

What a load of nonsense, why don't you tell us about Spain and how effective their lockdown was in curtailing the virus?