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2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,603 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    So you don't know his policies and couldn't care less it seems.

    Just another Trump obsessed keyboard person.

    They were posted here earlier, you commented on the post!

    On the flip side

    So you don't know Trumps policies and couldn't care less it seems.

    Just another Biden obsessed keyboard person.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,625 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    You'd think Trump supporters would be pro-life.

    Nah they're just pro-birth because that's something they can try and control, they don't give a shiit about you once you're born.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    They all handled it as best they could same as the US and Trump that why I'm not classifying it as a terrible job.

    they all got a handle on the problem (with perhaps the exception of the UK) and deaths have leveled off. that is not the case with the US. trump doesn't even mention it any more. covid doesnt exist according to him. it involves doing actual work so he isn't interested.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,751 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    So you don't know his policies and couldn't care less it seems.

    Just another Trump obsessed keyboard person.

    You do know everyone can see the posts which you have commented on?
    Have you forgotten you already quoted Biden's policies?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    Can you provide any evidence for this claim?
    Covid is listed as the underlying cause of death ('dying from covid) 'in 95% of Covid deaths in the US, only in 5% is it listed as a contributing cause ('dying with covid').

    For the majority of deaths where COVID-19 is reported on the death certificate (approximately 95%), COVID-19 is selected as the underlying cause of death.

    The source is the same CDC that you cited in your initial post: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Yeah here's their website.

    www.antifa.com

    Bringing that level of discourse is truly pathetic


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    Thats actually the first time i have heard that. What he said makes alot more sense now. And is alot less contraversial than has been suggested many times... Bit if you repeat a lie enough

    He literally disassociated the comment and himself from white nationalists in that video.

    Trump being elected no doubt showed up divisions in Ameruca, but the media seems intent on pushing peoole further apart with sensationalist reporting (on both sides)
    Except he didn't - after days of refusing to comment on the incident at all, he came out and said essentially "apart the Nazis there were good people on both sides here", while ignoring the fact that the entire rally was organised by neo Nazis.

    On top of that, the person I was responding to was trying to claim that one of the neo Nazi organisers of that (Richard Spencer) had endorsed Biden and so that must mean Biden is racist too. Except Biden's campaign immediately came out and denounced Spencer and rejected his support. Trump on the other hand refused to reject Spencer's support in 2016, refused to criticise his 'Heil Trump!' speeches after the election, refused to condemn him by name for his organising of the 2017 Nazi march (or to even acknowledge that it was Nazi organised), and instead hired a very close associate of his who is also a white supremacist - Steven Miller - to be a close advisor in the White House.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Can you give us a link to Trumps?

    Here you go:
    Building on the incredible achievements of President Donald J. Trump’s first term in office, the President’s re-election campaign today released a set of core priorities for a second term under the banner of “Fighting for You!” President Trump’s boundless optimism and certainty in America’s greatness is reflected in his second-term goals and stands in stark contrast to the gloomy vision of America projected by Joe Biden and Democrats.

    President Trump will further illuminate these plans during his acceptance speech Thursday at the Republican National Convention. Over the coming weeks, the President will be sharing additional details about his plans through policy-focused speeches on the campaign trail.

    President Trump: Fighting for You!

    JOBS
    • Create 10 Million New Jobs in 10 Months
    • Create 1 Million New Small Businesses
    • Cut Taxes to Boost Take-Home Pay and Keep Jobs in America
    • Enact Fair Trade Deals that Protect American Jobs
    • "Made in America" Tax Credits
    • Expand Opportunity Zones
    • Continue Deregulatory Agenda for Energy Independence

    ERADICATE COVID-19
    • Develop a Vaccine by The End Of 2020
    • Return to Normal in 2021
    • Make All Critical Medicines and Supplies for Healthcare Workers in The United States
    • Refill Stockpiles and Prepare for Future Pandemics

    END OUR RELIANCE ON CHINA
    • Bring Back 1 Million Manufacturing Jobs from China
    • Tax Credits for Companies that Bring Back Jobs from China
    • Allow 100% Expensing Deductions for Essential Industries like Pharmaceuticals and Robotics who Bring Back their Manufacturing to the United States
    • No Federal Contracts for Companies who Outsource to China
    • Hold China Fully Accountable for Allowing the Virus to Spread around the World

    HEALTHCARE
    • Cut Prescription Drug Prices
    • Put Patients and Doctors Back in Charge of our Healthcare System
    • Lower Healthcare Insurance Premiums
    • End Surprise Billing
    • Cover All Pre-Existing Conditions
    • Protect Social Security and Medicare
    • Protect Our Veterans and Provide World-Class Healthcare and Services

    EDUCATION
    • Provide School Choice to Every Child in America
    • Teach American Exceptionalism

    DRAIN THE SWAMP
    • Pass Congressional Term Limits
    • End Bureaucratic Government Bullying of U.S. Citizens and Small Businesses
    • Expose Washington’s Money Trail and Delegate Powers Back to People and States
    • Drain the Globalist Swamp by Taking on International Organizations That Hurt American Citizens

    DEFEND OUR POLICE
    • Fully Fund and Hire More Police and Law Enforcement Officers
    • Increase Criminal Penalties for Assaults on Law Enforcement Officers
    • Prosecute Drive-By Shootings as Acts of Domestic Terrorism
    • Bring Violent Extremist Groups Like ANTIFA to Justice
    • End Cashless Bail and Keep Dangerous Criminals Locked Up until Trial

    END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION AND PROTECT AMERICAN WORKERS
    • Block Illegal Immigrants from Becoming Eligible for Taxpayer-Funded Welfare, Healthcare, and Free College Tuition
    • Mandatory Deportation for Non-Citizen Gang Members
    • Dismantle Human Trafficking Networks
    • End Sanctuary Cities to Restore our Neighborhoods and Protect our Families
    • Prohibit American Companies from Replacing United States Citizens with Lower-Cost Foreign Workers
    • Require New Immigrants to Be Able to Support Themselves Financially

    INNOVATE FOR THE FUTURE
    • Launch Space Force, Establish Permanent Manned Presence on The Moon and Send the First Manned Mission to Mars
    • Build the World’s Greatest Infrastructure System
    • Win the Race to 5G and Establish a National High-Speed Wireless Internet Network
    • Continue to Lead the World in Access to the Cleanest Drinking Water and Cleanest Air
    • Partner with Other Nations to Clean Up our Planet’s Oceans

    AMERICA FIRST FOREIGN POLICY
    • Stop Endless Wars and Bring Our Troops Home
    • Get Allies to Pay their Fair Share
    • Maintain and Expand America’s Unrivaled Military Strength
    • Wipe Out Global Terrorists Who Threaten to Harm Americans
    • Build a Great Cybersecurity Defense System and Missile Defense System

    DEFEND AMERICAN VALUES
    • Continue nominating constitutionalist Supreme Court and lower court judges
    • Protect unborn life through every means available
    • Defend the freedoms of religious believers and organizations
    • Support the exercise of Second Amendment rights


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    The death per million figure of 552 for the USA is similar to the death per million figure of the UK, Sweden, France and Italy.

    So the US ain't doing a terrible job at dealing with it despite people constantly talking about the total deaths.

    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=table

    Of the three countries you listed, one got absolutely destroyed by the virus before anyone really knew what it was (Italy), while the other three have also been hugely criticised for their handling of the virus also. Added to that, the US was barely hit at all outside of NY and NJ for several months but failed to do much of anything to contain it - and had a president who not only pretended the virus wasn't real, but actively made sure to stop measures that could help by demanding his supporters partake in armed 'liberations' of states that were trying to contain the virus with lockdown/stay-at-home orders.

    I remember back in April and May how Trump apologists gleefully couldn't stop reminding everyone how their total cases were far lower than Ireland's per capita. Yet today, they have more than treble the number of cases per million, and if Ireland were a US state we would have the 5th lowest per capita cases out of 51 - ahead of only New Hampshire, West Virginia, Maine and Vermont.

    Trump had every advantage in the world to look good here, but failed badly. That you are trying to compare positively to the likes of Sweden and the UK on their handling of Covid says all it needs to, on that front.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses




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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,670 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Here you go:

    Most of that is a rehash of the promises he made in 2016.

    What is going to be different this time that means he can actually get any of this done?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭crisco10


    Develop a Vaccine by The End Of 2020

    That's impossible to carry out in his 2nd term. Given it wouldn't start until 2021.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses


    So you don't know his policies and couldn't care less it seems.

    Just another Trump obsessed keyboard person.

    It doesn't matter who will be in the white house from November as long as it is not Trump or any other republican for that matter ( GOP need to do some serious reforming before given the keys to the WH again)

    I rather have a syphilis infected baboon in charge then the current occupant

    Anyone with a functioning brain would IMHO.

    Not obsessed with Trump just worried with the trajectory the US has taken with this sad excuse for a human being in charge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,042 ✭✭✭Carfacemandog


    crisco10 wrote: »
    That's impossible to carry out in his 2nd term. Given it wouldn't start until 2021.

    Keep an eye for the Cambridge one around March on it's current schedule, just taking the word of people I know who work in that industry. Not a guarantee, but it's looking the most promising of the lot - talk of the US one (can't think of the name off hand) on the other hand, has supposedly gone quite quiet in terms of scaling up labs etc for production and whatnot. A lot of places even in Ireland have began to scale up their production of other drugs immensely in order to have a stockpile that will allow them to focus more heavily on the vaccine when it comes available, which is another good sign.

    Anyone who claims anything is coming out this side of Christmas (never mind Halloween) on current evidence and progress available however, is I have been told, completely and utterly lying.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,751 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Here you go:

    Jesus.
    That's borderline embarrassing for someone 4 years in the job. No white papers or links or content as to how or why these things are going to be achieved.

    What about this one 'Teach American Exceptionalism'.
    Reads like something out of China or North Korea...... actually, that's probably where he got the idea.

    Or what about this one. 'Expose Washington’s Money Trail and Delegate Powers Back to People and States' How does this fit with his 500B bailout which was doled out by Steve Mnuchin just a couple months ago with no congressional oversight.

    The fcuk is this supposed to mean 'Build the World’s Greatest Infrastructure System'?

    Pity this one 'Wipe Out Global Terrorists Who Threaten to Harm Americans' wasn't a focus when Saudi Arabia were killing an dismembering an America Citizen.

    The Native Americans will be particularly interested in this one, 'Continue to Lead the World in Access to the Cleanest Drinking Water and Cleanest Air'. I wonder will that mean the Dakota Access Pipeline project will be halted and reversed.

    I repeat, embarrassing for anyone wanting to be considered for the role of President of the US. For someone 4 years in the job, it should be enough to disqualify them to be so clueless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Using your logic , If a terminally ill person was murdered in their home by a burglar , the burglar is not responsible because they were terminal anyway.

    No, that is not their logic at all and your analogy is absurd.

    If a burglar murders someone in their home, then they have murdered someone in their home, obviously, and so you have loaded your analogy from the start with a point which is being disputed, but you knew that.

    A better burglar analogy would be that a burglar breaks into someone's home (who only has days to live) and whilst they are rummaging about they manage to give the dying owner (who's fast asleep) a small paper cut. Days later the home owner dies and because the paper cut is noticed during the autopsy, they decide to mark it down as the cause of death.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,332 ✭✭✭Cody montana




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,314 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    No, that is not their logic at all and your analogy is absurd.

    If a burglar murders someone in their home, then they have murdered someone in their home, obviously, and so you have loaded your analogy from the start with a point which is being disputed, but you knew that.

    A better burglar analogy would be that a burglar breaks into someone's home (who only has days to live) and whilst they are rummaging about they manage to give the dying owner (who's fast asleep) a small paper cut. Days later the home owner dies and because the paper cut is noticed during the autopsy, they decide to mark it down as the cause of death.

    That's absolutely comical in fairness. :D

    The facts are the over 200k excess deaths have been recorded due to Covid. Whether the person who died had an underlying condition is a supplementary piece of information but not their cause of death. If some poor chap with diabetes died from Covid complications the Trump supporters are putting that down to diabetes despite it not really being a life limiting condition. Callous in the extreme.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No, that is not their logic at all and your analogy is absurd.

    If a burglar murders someone in their home, then they have murdered someone in their home, obviously, and so you have loaded your analogy from the start with a point which is being disputed, but you knew that.

    A better burglar analogy would be that a burglar breaks into someone's home (who only has days to live) and whilst they are rummaging about they manage to give the dying owner (who's fast asleep) a small paper cut. Days later the home owner dies and because the paper cut is noticed during the autopsy, they decide to mark it down as the cause of death.

    Gonna provide any proof that those people would have died if it weren't for the coronavirus. Excess deaths backup the numbers. Why must you lie?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses


    No, that is not their logic at all and your analogy is absurd.

    If a burglar murders someone in their home, then they have murdered someone in their home, obviously, and so you have loaded your analogy from the start with a point which is being disputed, but you knew that.

    A better burglar analogy would be that a burglar breaks into someone's home (who only has days to live) and whilst they are rummaging about they manage to give the dying owner (who's fast asleep) a small paper cut. Days later the home owner dies and because the paper cut is noticed during the autopsy, they decide to mark it down as the cause of death.

    Burglar shoots homeowner who has diabetes .... In your head the homeowner died because of diabetes ..... I get it :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,901 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    No, that is not their logic at all and your analogy is absurd.

    If a burglar murders someone in their home, then they have murdered someone in their home, obviously, and so you have loaded your analogy from the start with a point which is being disputed, but you knew that.

    A better burglar analogy would be that a burglar breaks into someone's home (who only has days to live) and whilst they are rummaging about they manage to give the dying owner (who's fast asleep) a small paper cut. Days later the home owner dies and because the paper cut is noticed during the autopsy, they decide to mark it down as the cause of death.

    Do you seriously think that's a good comparison? Like, actually honestly think that's a better analogy?

    Just when I thought it couldn't get worse than when you tried to defend Trump being disrespectful during the national anthem by claiming he'd probably just drunk too much apple juice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Igotadose wrote: »
    So, following through on this line of 'reasoning', the US should make no effort to improve its response because that's just the way they are, and we should re-elect the #IMPOTUS because, well, there's nothing he can do, and after all he takes no responsibility and it is what it is? Heck, call off the election now. Or decide it in a steel-cage no-holds barred no disqualification match?

    I haven't said any of that, how you took that from my post is beyond insanity. I have condemned the US response as it was lacklustre but my point was merely that the US and the UK's numbers were always going to be higher because of their 'patriotic' sense of individualism.

    Even if trump called for masks day 1 you would still have thousands of people claiming it was a government conspiracy to control people. Those people are nuts and will come up with a conspiracy no matter who is president.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    I haven't said any of that, how you took that from my post is beyond insanity. I have condemned the US response as it was lacklustre but my point was merely that the US and the UK's numbers were always going to be higher because of their 'patriotic' sense of individualism.

    Even if trump called for masks day 1 you would still have thousands of people claiming it was a government conspiracy to control people. Those people are nuts and will come up with a conspiracy no matter who is president.

    there are even more of them because their president has encouraged the conspiracy. so we are back to trump as a root cause.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    there are even more of them because their president has encouraged the conspiracy. so we are back to trump as a root cause.

    no we are not. We get it , you hate the guy, it doesn't mean its all his fault when the country of conspiracy nuts believes a conspiracy theory.

    and before you say it, I'm not saying he hasn't added to it, but root cause is cultural, not presidential.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    no we are not. We get it , you hate the guy, it doesn't mean its all his fault when the country of conspiracy nuts believes a conspiracy theory.

    and before you say it, I'm not saying he hasn't added to it, but root cause is cultural, not presidential.

    He actively helped make things like masks into a culture war. He held rallies while a thousand people a day were dying. You're entirely downplaying his responsibility.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,751 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    no we are not. We get it , you hate the guy, it doesn't mean its all his fault when the country of conspiracy nuts believes a conspiracy theory.

    and before you say it, I'm not saying he hasn't added to it, but root cause is cultural, not presidential.

    Do you think it is possible for anyone to offer a negative opinion on Trumps performance as President for you not to see that simply being because they hate the guy?


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    no we are not. We get it , you hate the guy, it doesn't mean its all his fault when the country of conspiracy nuts believes a conspiracy theory.

    and before you say it, I'm not saying he hasn't added to it, but root cause is cultural, not presidential.

    trump is one of the conspiracy guys. he is the public face of it. he is encouraging conspiracy theories and you think that doesn't make him a root cause?


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,280 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Do you think it is possible for anyone to offer a negative opinion on Trumps performance as President for you not to see that simply being because they hate the guy?

    yes, but its impossible for me to read the same posters blame trump for literally every issue in America , including cultural issues that predated him completely and not devalue their condemnation of him as nothing more than a personal dislike.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    yes, but its impossible for me to read the same posters blame trump for literally every issue in America , including cultural issues that predated him completely and not devalue their condemnation of him as nothing more than a personal dislike.

    Multiple health officials backup that he messed up royslly. Including not even following laid out strategy by previous governments.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/run-plays-officials-trump-administration-pandemic-playbooks/story?id=71999769


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