2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

Sean.3516

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a video of him boasting that he'd use lethal force, that's not open for interpretation..

Someone asks him if they have "non-lethals" and Kyle says "no we don't have non-lethals".

He wasn't boasting, he was simply making clear that if anyone attacks them or the property they're protecting, they're using lethal force.

It was more of a warning than a threat and it certainly isn't evidence of premeditated murder.

joeguevara

Sean.3516 wrote: »

You have it almost right. It has to be reasonable for you to believe you are under threat.

And "threat" doesn't have to mean "threat of dying". If someone tried to hit me with a baseball bat and I shoot them. That's a legitimate self defence.


You had it almost right above when you said "feel that you are in imminent threat" above. Now you have it completely wrong.

Whether or not the threat is real is immaterial. It has to be reasonable for you to believe that the threat is real at the time. Because people can only act given the information available to them in the moment.

If Kyle Rittenhouse had allowed Rosenbaum to take his weapon, it stands to reason that he could have been in imminent danger from him. That's why that shooting was self defence.


"If he stayed where he was he'd been fine" is not an argument against him having the right to defend himself. You're conflating causality with responsibility.

Whether or not he had stayed home it wouldn't absolve the responsibility of others not to attack him.


Whether or not it's preemptive depends on that standard of reasonableness I've just laid out.

See, it’s you who are nearly right.

All of your arguments are prefaced on without warning finding yourself in a situation that your life is in danger. If you put yourself in that situation with a lethal weapon, you must accept the reasonable outcome of your actions. The fact that it is alleged that ritterhouse (as espoused by his attorney) only brought his loaded rifle into the situation because if he didn’t he knew he would die, is prima facie mens rea for murder. It was loaded and he is arguing that he was going to use it is enough for the prosecutions face.

If I am 100s of yards from a riot in no danger and run in with a knife, if that stabs someone even without me meaning it, then that’s murder (U.K. case law on that).

I have been reading us articles today on depraved mind murder, and it’s quite similar. Very interesting and I’d recommend you read them. It is clear that it’s a grey area. And none of us know what will transpire.

Very interesting reading everyone’s opinion on this. One thing I have said earlier is, there is more at play when a 17 year old who has been bullied, becomes obsessed with police, takes it upon themselves to travel across state lines into a city that they appear to have no connection with, be given a gun from as yet unknown and do what allegedly happened.

Cody montana

Chris Wallace, Steve Scully And Kristen Welker will moderate the 3 Presidential Debate between Trump and Biden.

Overheal

Cody montana wrote: »

Chris Wallace, Steve Scully And Kristen Welker will moderate the 3 Presidential Debate between Trump and Biden.

Steve "Patience" Scully!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wrji0XLoFU

Igotadose

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Well first of all, I don't believe the Rosenbaum killing was a murder to begin with.


Huber tried to club Rittenhouse with a potentially lethal blunt object and got shot for his trouble.

He clearly was trying to disable Rittenhouse's ability to kill other people. Remember, Huber didn't attack Rittenhouse (nor the other people who joined in, including mangled-arm guy), because Rittenhouse was standing around and whistling. Rittenhouse had shot and killed Rosenbaum.

I don't think he achieved anything other than getting himself killed.

He probably saved other lives.

As regards him saving lives, neither he nor the other guy who had the gun, "mangled arm guy" would have been shot had they not been trying to rush Rittenhouse with their weapons.

Rittenhouse had killed Rosenbaum. SHould they have stood and applauded him? No, they did the job that the police weren't, that is, prevent Rittenhouse's further attempts to kill people

So no. Not a hero.

Absolutely one. You really don't get it - preventing people from shooting other people at risk to your own life, is heroic.

duploelabs

Overheal wrote: »

Steve "Patience" Scully!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wrji0XLoFU

Ok

weisses

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2020/sep/02/electoral-college-explained-biden-uphill-battle-us-election

Good article in the guardian on how Biden faces an uphill battle in the election due to the electoral college system.

What rock where you hiding under the last 6 months ?

Tell me how

weisses wrote: »

What rock where you hiding under the last 6 months ?

6 Months?

More like 4 years.

extra gravy

Certain posters referring to Rittenhouse as "Kyle" is rather tasteless imo. He's a murderer, not your buddy.

Mr E

Mod: Back to talking about Trump vs. Biden please. Rittenhouse/violence can be discussed in their own threads.

ohnonotgmail

So Trump says he didnt have a mini-stroke. That seems a very specific denial. Pence was asked if he was put on standby and he said he didn't remember. how could you not remember something like that. all very odd

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1300983667561562118

namloc1980

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So Trump says he didnt have a mini-stroke. That seems a very specific denial . Pence was asked if he was put on standby and he said he didn't remember. how could you not remember something like that. all very odd

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1300983667561562118

Trump brought the mini-stroke into it himself on Twitter yesterday. Very specific denial indeed especially when you consider the CNN article he quoted in his tweet made absolutely no mention of a stroke, mini or otherwise. The fact he was given the cognitive test that he bragged about would make sense also in that context.

ohnonotgmail

I've heard that mulligatawny is particularly lethal
https://twitter.com/TheMichaelMoran/status/1301036095912775680

namloc1980

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I've heard that mulligatawny is particularly lethal
https://twitter.com/TheMichaelMoran/status/1301036095912775680

Republicans are demanding soup restrictions be brought in. Minestrone soup in particular....lethal.

namloc1980

Good move by the Biden campaign to go to Kenosha especially to have a community meeting to contrast with Trump's visit yesterday.

.

Kidchameleon

I think I speak for us all in hoping that Biden has a safe visit.

namloc1980

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I think I speak for us all in hoping that Biden has a safe visit.

Sure but he's not flying into a warzone.

extra gravy

namloc1980 wrote: »

Sure but he's not flying into a warzone.

Hopefully he'll bring a few cans of soup with him just in case things get out of hand and he needs to defend himself.

ohnonotgmail

namloc1980 wrote: »

Sure but he's not flying into a warzone.

he certainly won't need to teargas people so he can walk down the street safely.

Igotadose

extra gravy wrote: »

Hopefully he'll bring a few cans of soup with him just in case things get out of hand and he needs to defend himself.

Goya soup!

iebamm2580

Thought biden came across well today and his comments about vast majority of police being decent and condemning looters and violent protesters will work very well as that what most moderates and soft republicans believe, none of this ridiculous defund the police rhetoric.

namloc1980

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Thought biden came across well today and his comments about vast majority of police being decent and condemning looters and violent protesters will work very well as that what most moderates believe, none of this ridiculous defund the police rhetoric.

In fairness to Biden he has never said he wants to defund the police. It's just another Trumpist smear that he does.

iebamm2580

namloc1980 wrote: »

In fairness to Biden he has never said he wants to defund the police. It's just another Trumpist smear that he does.

yeah i agree but people will believe he does as the call from progressive democrats have gotten pretty loud so by praising the police it helps.

Tell me how

The ironic thing about the whole soup thing is that when Trump went to Puerto Rico, he through paper towels at people whose infrastructure had been destroyed. They'd probably have been happier if he had thrown soup at them.

extra gravy

extra gravy wrote: »

Hopefully he'll bring a few cans of soup with him just in case things get out of hand and he needs to defend himself.

Soros and his quick soup

Carfacemandog

Tell me how wrote: »

The ironic thing about the whole soup thing is that when Trump went to Puerto Rico, he through paper towels at people whose infrastructure had been destroyed. They'd probably have been happier if he had thrown soup at them.

The paper towels are probably related to why former staff members of his have said he wanted to trade PR for Greenland - he considers Puerto Ricans "poor and dirty." https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-trade-puerto-rico-greenland-dirty-poor-a9679346.html%3famp

Billy Mays

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So Trump says he didnt have a mini-stroke. That seems a very specific denial. Pence was asked if he was put on standby and he said he didn't remember. how could you not remember something like that. all very odd

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1300983667561562118

Warren should start calling him Strokahontas

weisses

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I think I speak for us all in hoping that Biden has a safe visit.

Speak for yourself

Cody montana

The Congressional Budget Office projects the federal deficit will reach $3.3 trillion in 2020 under Trump’s mismanagement.

The federal deficit was $597 billion in 2016.

Tis going well.

Timberrrrrrrr

Cody montana wrote: »

The Congressional Budget Office projects the federal deficit will reach $3.3 trillion in 2020 under Trump’s mismanagement.

The federal deficit was $597 billion in 2016.

Tis going well.

But O'Bamaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!