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2020 the battle of the septuagenarians - Trump vs Biden, Part 2

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    #5762
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,017 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    He is not a criminal.

    Can you tell me what crime he has been convicted of?
    Apparently to the left, "credibly accused" means convicted.


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    #5763
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    More fake news.

    He hasn't been convicted of a crime so he is not a criminal.

    So you're okay with criminals who avoid charges by settling with district attorneys? So basically rich criminals are fine. Your moral compass is pretty warped. The man isn't legally allowed to manage a charity because of how it operated for his own benefit.


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    #5764
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    He is not a criminal.

    Can you tell me what crime he has been convicted of?

    If I am running around killing people am I considered a criminal ?

    yes or no


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    #5765
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    duploelabs wrote: »
    Unnamed co-conspirator in the case that took down Michael Cohen

    And what crime was Trump convicted of in that case?


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    #5766
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So you're okay with criminals who avoid charges by settling with district attorneys? So basically rich criminals are fine. Your moral compass is pretty warped. The man isn't legally allowed to manage a charity because of how it operated for his own benefit.

    He is not a criminal as he has not been convicted of a crime.

    A settlement does not mean he is guilty of a crime, or that it is an admission of guilt.


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    #5767
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Apparently to the left, "credibly accused" means convicted.

    I know, what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?


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    #5768
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    He is not a criminal as he has not been convicted of a crime.

    A settlement does mean he is guilty of a crime, or that it is an admission of guilt.
    He illegally operated a fraudulent “university” and a self-dealing “foundation.” He avoided charges by paying millions of dollars to settle those cases.

    ;)


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    #5769
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    He is not a criminal as he has not been convicted of a crime.

    A settlement does mean he is guilty of a crime, or that it is an admission of guilt.

    So you had no problem with OJ Simpson when he got off for killing his wife? Never convicted so all good.


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    #5770
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    I know, what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

    So I am not a criminal when running around killing people .... Only when I'm actually caught doing it ?


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    #5771
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So you had no problem with OJ Simpson when he got off for killing his wife? Never convicted so all good.

    Yup innocent until proven guilty.


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    #5772
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,470 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    And what crime was Trump convicted of in that case?

    he wsan't indicted because Barr decided that a president cannot be indicted. very convenient for trump. But dont worry, Trump's time in prison orange will come.


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    #5773
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    weisses wrote: »
    So I am not a criminal when running around killing people .... Only when I'm actually caught doing it ?

    You could have killed those people in self defense so, no you would not be a criminal if you were running around killing people.

    You need to be convicted of a crime in a court for you to be a criminal.


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    #5774
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Ah , that's ok so - He just acts "Handicapped" to mock people because he thinks a handicap is something to mock.

    So he wasn't mocking that specific disabled journalists , just all disabled people in general.

    Lovely.

    I can't believe what I am reading here...

    At no stage did the user you're quoting say that Trump acted handicapped. You're just putting words in their mouth so you can have a childish groundless rant about Trump and claim he mocked all disabled people. He did no such thing and you know very well he didn't.
    namloc1980 wrote: »
    I'll ask again as you are ignoring the question.

    I didn't ignore the question. You just failed to understand the answer. Trump said you gotta see this guy in reference to his grovelling. Watch the video I included. The motions he uses are the ones he always used when mocking people and no that does not mean he's mocking all disabled people. What the hell is wrong with you all? NO disabled people mocked for being disabled. It never happened.


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    #5775
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    A settlement does mean he is guilty of a crime, or that it is an admission of guilt.

    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/04/10/trump-university-settlement-judge-finalized/502387002/
    A federal judge finalized the $25 million settlement between President Trump and students of his now shuttered Trump University on Monday, with New York's attorney general claiming “victims of Donald Trump’s fraudulent university will finally receive the relief they deserve.”


    So trump settled ... According to you that is an admmission of guilt

    And according to you
    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    I can't support a criminal.

    Ur welcome


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    #5776
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,460 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    And what crime was Trump convicted of in that case?

    Campaign finance violation, a federal crime


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    #5777
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    weisses wrote: »
    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/04/10/trump-university-settlement-judge-finalized/502387002/




    So trump settled ... According to you that is an admmission of guilt

    And according to you



    Ur welcome

    You need to read my post again I said a settlement is NOT an admission of guilt never has been and it never will be, unless they admit liability with the settlement.

    Edit: I left out the word not in my original post


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    #5778
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,887 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    Yup innocent until proven guilty.

    I punch you in the face. Am I innocent of punching you in the face until proven guilty in a court of law? Let's say there's not enough evidence and I'm given a verdict of not guilty. Were you not punched in the face?

    Innocent until proven guilty is the legal position of the court, judge, prosecutors, jury etc, must start from the position that the defendant is innocent, and it's up to the prosecutors to prove to the judge/jury that the defendant is guilty.

    It does not mean a crime has not been committed until the defendant has been proven guilty, or that if they're found not guilty it doesn't always mean they're not guilty, but could mean there wasn't enough evidence (or the prosecutors weren't able) to prove the defendant was guilty.

    Trump not being convicted of a crime does not mean he hasn't committed any, and given his position and the number of investigations into him and his stonewalling of every investigation, it's more than likely he is guilty of some crimes.

    Right now it's only his position as POTUS which is helping him block criminal proceedings against him.


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    #5779
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    You need to read my post again I said a settlement is NOT an admission of guilt never has been and it never will be, unless they admit liability with the settlement.

    Edit: I left out the word not in my post

    Yeah that word is kinda important


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    #5780
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    duploelabs wrote: »
    Campaign finance violation, a federal crime

    What court convicted him of this crime?


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    #5781
    weisses
    Registered Users Posts: 9,483 ✭✭✭weisses


    Penn wrote: »
    Right now it's only his position as POTUS which is helping him block criminal proceedings against him.

    Plus his wealth which he can use to settle without admitting guilt

    Every normal citizen would have done serious time


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    #5782
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    What court convicted him of this crime?

    He's an unindicted co-conspirator in that case but he cannot be indicted while in office.


  • Options
    #5783
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    Penn wrote: »
    I punch you in the face. Am I innocent of punching you in the face until proven guilty in a court of law? Let's say there's not enough evidence and I'm given a verdict of not guilty. Were you not punched in the face?

    Innocent until proven guilty is the legal position of the court, judge, prosecutors, jury etc, must start from the position that the defendant is innocent, and it's up to the prosecutors to prove to the judge/jury that the defendant is guilty.

    It does not mean a crime has not been committed until the defendant has been proven guilty, or that if they're found not guilty it doesn't always mean they're not guilty, but could mean there wasn't enough evidence (or the prosecutors weren't able) to prove the defendant was guilty.

    Trump not being convicted of a crime does not mean he hasn't committed any, and given his position and the number of investigations into him and his stonewalling of every investigation, it's more than likely he is guilty of some crimes.

    Right now it's only his position as POTUS which is helping him block criminal proceedings against him.

    So your basically saying that a person is not innocent until proven guilty?

    And that a crime has been committed but there isn't enough evidence to prove it.

    Tell me this: Who decides that a person is guilty of a crime even when there isn't enough evidence to prove it?


  • Options
    #5784
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    He's an unindicted co-conspirator in that case but he cannot be indicted while in office.

    So he's not a criminal?


  • Options
    #5785
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,313 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    I didn't ignore the question. You just failed to understand the answer. Trump said you gotta see this guy in reference to his grovelling. Watch the video I included. The motions he uses are the ones he always used when mocking people and no that does not mean he's mocking all disabled people. What the hell is wrong with you all? NO disabled people mocked for being disabled. It never happened.

    No he didn't - you're deliberately ignoring it at this stage. I'll quote Trump again as you've obviously missed it the first few times: "nice reporter, now the poor guy you gotta see this guy". Why say he's a "poor guy" that people "gotta see"? What's poor about him?


  • Options
    #5786
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,460 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    What court convicted him of this crime?

    Southern District of New York


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    #5787
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    duploelabs wrote: »
    Southern District of New York

    Can you provide me with the judgement that was made against him and the punishment that was handed down by the court?


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    #5788
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,375 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    He's not hiding anything he's under no obligation to release them.

    Ever hear of Schrodinger's cat?


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    #5789
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    So he's not a criminal?

    I don't know where you're getting that.

    Regardless, it's clear that you'll just continue to redefine what you consider to be a criminal to avoid having Trump fit that definition. That's your right, childish and illogical as it may be.

    I assume you can be held to that definition in future conversations?


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    #5790
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    Ever hear of Schrodinger's cat?

    I have, watched a video in relation to quantum theory that used it.

    I can see how you would apply it here but the law is black and white.

    You're either guilty or not guilty.

    There's a lot more of a grey area in science especially quantum theory.


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    #5791
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 22,017 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    weisses wrote: »
    So I am not a criminal when running around killing people .... Only when I'm actually caught doing it ?


    You are not a criminal until you are tried and convicted by a jury of your peers. The law is pretty clear and unanimous in most western countries about this. The US (and Ireland for that matter) is no exception.


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